Dell battery replacement

[bhelms]

Hey folks, newb here to these equipment forums (SatGuy member 20+ years) so I'm not sure where to post my questions...thus I'm starting a new thread.

I have a 5 y.o. Dell XPS 17 9700 that needs a new battery. I bought a Dell-branded replacement suitable for models 9710 and newer on the assumption that it will work in mine. It's Dell Type XG4K6, 97 whr. I'm not sure what's in my laptop as I haven't opened it yet, might be a lower capacity although it was the highest available at the time of purchase. If you think what I bought won't work for whatever reason, please let me know asap!

I feel competent enough to make the swap, have done such before on other computers with no issues. I'm a fairly skilled bench tech of "older stuff", have done a lot of board-level repair when components were mostly discrete, boards were only 2-layer or less, IC lead spaces were .1" or greater, etc. But I digress. I have a static-dissipative work surface, wrist strap, etc. Plenty of YouTube videos show the procedure and I have the proper tools.

My question: I assume when all power is disconnected, the CMOS and BIOS will dump their contents as I believe this model does not have a CMOS battery. The service manual says the contents will clear but gives no other information. Will the computer boot back up normally with CMOS/BIOS reset to factory? I know can enter the BIOS manually before this swap is attempted and copy all the information there in case I have to restore it manually after the swap.

Any wisdom from the brain trust here would be appreciated! TIA and BRgds...

 

[dishdude]

Not sure if this helps, but I have an XPS 13 7390 I swapped and BIOS settings were retained.

Good call getting a Dell battery, they were out of them when I needed one so I ordered an aftermarket from CDW and it didn't work, the charging light just kept blinking between orange and white. Dell finally got the correct battery. If that's not the correct battery, I wouldn't swap it. Write the type down and replace it with the same type.

 

[harshness]

Not sure if this helps, but I have an XPS 13 7390 I swapped and BIOS settings were retained.

Are you talking about the CMOS backup battery or the main battery?

 

[harshness]

Will the computer boot back up normally with CMOS/BIOS reset to factory?

The machine specs say that there is a ML1120 coin cell in the computer and that would likely be to back up the CMOS.

In any event, if you haven't made changes to the CMOS yourself, resetting the CMOS shouldn't impact you.

 

[bhelms]

Not sure if this helps, but I have an XPS 13 7390 I swapped and BIOS settings were retained.

Good call getting a Dell battery, they were out of them when I needed one so I ordered an aftermarket from CDW and it didn't work, the charging light just kept blinking between orange and white. Dell finally got the correct battery. If that's not the correct battery, I wouldn't swap it. Write the type down and replace it with the same type.

Tks dishdude! I'm going to take a chance with the "upgrade" figuring the worst that can happen is that it won't work due to some kind of "handshake" issue. If that happens I can return it paying only the shipping. I bought this one from a seller on eBay with a near 100% approval. It was advertised as "100% genuine Dell", the picture showed the Dell labeling including a serial number label and what I received matched the picture but perhaps had a different s/n. Since I first posted above, I did some research and the XG4K6 is a replacement for the older 9700 model. Turns out there are a bunch of sellers, all within a $1 or 2 of what I paid, which incidentally is less than half of what Dell is asking. So I'm about to take the leap and crack that case (computer case, that is...the case of beer will wait until after a successful transplant!).

Incidentally - the OEM battery did not last long at all, maybe a year or 2, until it got to the point it will run for only 15-20 minutes. While researching this swap I learned a lot about battery life and I guess the way I use this computer is all wrong! It's basically home bound and connected to the adapter/charger almost all the time. I travel a couple of times a year, some trips where just 2-3 hours of reliable battery time would be all I need, like on a cruise, but now I can't go anywhere without the adapter. From what I read, the best practice would be to use the computer ONLY on battery, let it drain to about 20%, then recharge to only about 80%, always operating in that range, and keep it unplugged unless charging. I guess I can do that, but what a PITA! It would be great if I could set some kind of alarm that would remind me to plug it in at 20% and unplug it at 80%. I wonder if anyone has a utility that does that?

Anyway - Tks again...

 

[bhelms]

The machine specs say that there is a ML1120 coin cell in the computer and that would likely be to back up the CMOS.

In any event, if you haven't made changes to the CMOS yourself, resetting the CMOS shouldn't impact you.

Thanks harshness! Every computer I have ever had had a CMOS back-up battery, usually a CR2032, on the CPU board. But for some reason the service manual for this model says nothing about a CMOS battery and it does say under replacing the main battery that when it is disconnected, the CMOS clears and BIOS resets...hence my question. (This really makes no sense since a fully drained main battery should have the same effect, one would think?) I guess I'll know when I crack the case and look for a coin battery.

These are the instructions for replacing the main battery, first comments:

1. Follow the procedure in Before working inside your computer.
2. Remove the base cover.
   NOTE Removing the battery clears the CMOS and resets the BIOS settings on your computer. (My emphasis.)

- - - - -

I've been in the BIOS a couple of times only when the computer failed to restart for some reason, by pushing F12 when it boots, IIRC. I don't recall ever making any changes in the BIOS, but I wonder if any system changes I did in Windows made changes in the BIOS? As I mentioned, before I disconnect the old battery I will access the BIOS manually on boot-up and record all the settings "just in case". I never accessed/changed any separate CMOS settings that I can recall.

 

[rvvaquero]

I bought a Dell XPS 17 many years ago and paid extra for the extended warranty. The OEM battery lasted less than two years. Guess what's not included in the extended warranty? Anyway, Dell wanted $120 for a replacement. I bought a third party one on eBay for less than $25. It lasted 13 years.

The only problem with the aftermarket battery was I kept getting a signal at boot-up that it wasn't genuine Dell. Went into the bios and changed a setting that does a battery check when booting, no longer got the message.

After that, I just go now to Amazon and find an aftermarket battery for various devices. Good luck so far.

 

[bhelms]

I bought a Dell XPS 17 many years ago and paid extra for the extended warranty. The OEM battery lasted less than two years. Guess what's not included in the extended warranty? Anyway, Dell wanted $120 for a replacement. I bought a third party one on eBay for less than $25. It lasted 13 years.

The only problem with the aftermarket battery was I kept getting a signal at boot-up that it wasn't genuine Dell. Went into the bios and changed a setting that does a battery check when booting, no longer got the message.

After that, I just go now to Amazon and find an aftermarket battery for various devices. Good luck so far.

Thanks for weighing in! I'm usually OK with aftermarket parts, have generally had decent luck and saved a bunch vs. the brand name item which is often identical to the knock-off part but with the brand and maybe a better warranty. Dell wanted something like $150 for the 97 whr battery so I got one instead on eBay with the Dell label and s/n for ~$50 + tax, shipping included. I doubt there's any warranty past the 30-day return period however. Now I see other sellers with the Dell battery, some less than I paid. I figured for the $100 difference it was worth taking a chance...

 

[dishdude]

In my case, the battery started losing capacity at the 3-4 year mark, which I thought was premature. It was made by LG. I have had terrible luck with LG products and flat out refuse to buy them, but I still get screwed by them! I had a brand new home HVAC system installed and within a month the compressor died. Guess who made the compressor?

 

[Foxbat]

IFixIt is a great source for repair guides and community support.

Dell XPS 17 9700 Repair Help: Learn How to Fix It Yourself.

Dell XPS 17 9700 repair guide: Common issues & fixes – The Dell XPS 17 9700 is a premium 17-inch laptop with Intel processors and high-performance graphics, ideal for video editing, gaming, and software development. Frequent repairs include screen replacements, battery swaps, and keyboard fixes...

www.ifixit.com

Dell XPS 17 9710 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to replace the battery in your Dell XPS 17 9710. Lithium-ion batteries inevitably degrade over time, so if you're noticing reduced...

www.ifixit.com

 

[bhelms]

In my case, the battery started losing capacity at the 3-4 year mark, which I thought was premature. It was made by LG. I have had terrible luck with LG products and flat out refuse to buy them, but I still get screwed by them! I had a brand new home HVAC system installed and within a month the compressor died. Guess who made the compressor?

Not good news there! 2 years ago I bought a new LG French door fridge. I have a friend who had his own appliance repair business; he warned that the Korean brands are notoriously unreliable, especially the invertors...so I also got the 5-yr. extended warranty, something I almost never buy otherwise! Murphy's Law corollary - As long as I have the warranty I won't need it! So I'l probably extend it out to 10 years total when the time comes. I doubt I'll be living here after that expires...!

Now you have me wondering who made the invertors in my 2 ductless mini-splits...?

 

[bhelms]

IFixIt is a great source for repair guides and community support.

Dell XPS 17 9700 Repair Help: Learn How to Fix It Yourself.

Dell XPS 17 9700 repair guide: Common issues & fixes – The Dell XPS 17 9700 is a premium 17-inch laptop with Intel processors and high-performance graphics, ideal for video editing, gaming, and software development. Frequent repairs include screen replacements, battery swaps, and keyboard fixes...

www.ifixit.com

Dell XPS 17 9710 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to replace the battery in your Dell XPS 17 9710. Lithium-ion batteries inevitably degrade over time, so if you're noticing reduced...

www.ifixit.com

Thanks Foxbat! I'll check them both out before launching the project...

 

[harshness]

I guess I'll know when I crack the case and look for a coin battery.

As coin cells are designated by their measurements, you're looking for a battery that is 12mm in diameter and 2mm thick. It may be wrapped in plastic and have leads. Amazon has many configurations.

The BIOS is in flash memory, so you can't easily screw that up unless you abort a BIOS update. The CMOS has a "default" which is usually safe (unless you've disabled UEFI or something similarly unusual). If you run an off-the-shelf setup, the worst you'll have to do is set the clock.

 

[bhelms]

As coin cells are designated by their measurements, you're looking for a battery that is 12mm in diameter and 2mm thick. It may be wrapped in plastic and have leads. Amazon has many configurations.

The BIOS is in flash memory, so you can't easily screw that up unless you abort a BIOS update. The CMOS has a "default" which is usually safe (unless you've disabled UEFI or something similarly unusual). If you run an off-the-shelf setup, the worst you'll have to do is set the clock.

Tks again Harshness. Yesterday I rebooted while pressing F12 repeatedly to end up in the BIOS screens. I took pictures. I remember seeing these screens before, don't recall ever attempting to change anything, but I now have a record of current settings. I think I know enough now to attempt this transplant today. Found my tools, still looking for my wrist strap. (I always practice "safe ESD" when working on low voltage boards.)

Interestingly, I just found the Setup and Specifications Manual for this computer on line. In the Battery part of the Specs. section, it shows 2 columns for the 2 main battery options. The very last row says "Coin-cell battery", and in each column it reads "Not supported". Perhaps further evidence that there's no separate CMOS back-up battery in this model?

 

[bhelms]

Comments would be appreciated to the below:

I contacted Dell to get some help installing a Power Manager. For XPS models, one should use MyDell for this utility but apparently my 9700 is too old for MyDell and for some reason I can't install Dell Optimizer. But all I want from either is a Power Manager. The Dell tech did the installation remotely and it was apparently successful. This app puts some BIOS-level power management tools at my ready disposal; indeed the icon to open it is in the apps tray.

I'll intall the new battery (pushed out at least 1 day now) and run it through the "calibration cycle" which is to cycle between 100% charge, run it on battery only until it powers down due to not enough juice remaining, then recharge to 100% again, waiting 2+ hours at each extreme.

Then I'll use Settings in the Power Manager to control the charging. I'll set it to start charging when the battery reaches 20%* and stop charging when it reaches 80%, which matches what is recommended for maximum battery life. That way I can leave it on AC power all the time without charging all the way to 100% as I have been doing with the original battery. I've just recently learned that what I was doing is improper battery management and that led to a short lifetime. If I'm heading out and want max. charge, I can simply use Power Manager again to let it charge to 100% for the time that makes sense, then resort to the shorter charge cycle when I'm back home on continuous AC power again.

Do you think this will work? Any other ideas...? Thanks...

* Just realized that the lowest start charging setting is 50%, so I'll have to rethink my strategy a bit...

 

[arlo]

Harshness seems spot on. First and foremost. When you do start the battery swap. Keep track of the location for any and all screws. I mean all of them. Especially if you find one in the cover that is longer than the others.
Also. Dell's are pretty good. But learn the battery connector latch before forcing anything.
I get several a year with self-replaced batteries where the owner damaged and ripped the main board connector right off.

When you do get it swapped out. After you get it to boot. Probably a good time to swap the cmos battery.
But in your bios/uefi screen. Take photos. You'll get a cmos error and prompt to either enter setup or continue.
Might be a good time to get cozy with all of the settings.

There are guides for Windows battery calibration. My Asus lappy I'm using is on it's 3rd. Me? I set the battery down to 3-5% and 100% full charge for at least 2 complete charge/discharge cycles. At times even let it sit in the uefi until it finally shuts down. Twice with a new battery.
The battery bms and pc charging chip aren't influenced by any Windows or 3rd party apps.

Leaving the pc on and plugged in versus shut down and getting a charge works differently.
If you use it at home mostly. 85% max charge makes them (battery) last longer. Shut down, lid closed. 85% is good.

I have 2 other laptops I don't use all of the time. They both recommend not leaving them plugged in to the charger all of the time when not used. BTW. This one has a socketed cmos battery. external to the board. It actually never has needed swapping. Coin cells on the other hand that get to 3 volts or under definitely need it every couple of years. You could cut a hole in a piece of paper to fit over the coin cell and swap it while the pc is on. You won't lose settings that way. And the paper mask will keep the cell from making a leap across board components.
On or off at any rate, protect the main board from the cell shorting the board.
Good Luck!

 

[dishdude]

I'll intall the new battery (pushed out at least 1 day now) and run it through the "calibration cycle" which is to cycle between 100% charge, run it on battery only until it powers down due to not enough juice remaining, then recharge to 100% again, waiting 2+ hours at each extreme.

I wouldn't do this. Just charge it to 100% after install, set the charging limit to 80% and don't run it below 20%. I set charging to start at 75%.

Little bumps in charging won't hurt it, it's the extremes you want to avoid.

 

[bhelms]

Harshness seems spot on. First and foremost. When you do start the battery swap. Keep track of the location for any and all screws. I mean all of them. Especially if you find one in the cover that is longer than the others.
Also. Dell's are pretty good. But learn the battery connector latch before forcing anything.
I get several a year with self-replaced batteries where the owner damaged and ripped the main board connector right off.

When you do get it swapped out. After you get it to boot. Probably a good time to swap the cmos battery.
But in your bios/uefi screen. Take photos. You'll get a cmos error and prompt to either enter setup or continue.
Might be a good time to get cozy with all of the settings.

There are guides for Windows battery calibration. My Asus lappy I'm using is on it's 3rd. Me? I set the battery down to 3-5% and 100% full charge for at least 2 complete charge/discharge cycles. At times even let it sit in the uefi until it finally shuts down. Twice with a new battery.
The battery bms and pc charging chip aren't influenced by any Windows or 3rd party apps.

Leaving the pc on and plugged in versus shut down and getting a charge works differently.
If you use it at home mostly. 85% max charge makes them (battery) last longer. Shut down, lid closed. 85% is good.

I have 2 other laptops I don't use all of the time. They both recommend not leaving them plugged in to the charger all of the time when not used. BTW. This one has a socketed cmos battery. external to the board. It actually never has needed swapping. Coin cells on the other hand that get to 3 volts or under definitely need it every couple of years. You could cut a hole in a piece of paper to fit over the coin cell and swap it while the pc is on. You won't lose settings that way. And the paper mask will keep the cell from making a leap across board components.
On or off at any rate, protect the main board from the cell shorting the board.
Good Luck!

Thanks Arlo! Good to get some advice from a professional.

When I dissemble anything, I take a sheet of corrugated cardboard, draw an outline of what I'm taking apart with any important details, then as I remove screws I punch them into the cardboard in the same location on the image. If I remove something larger, I tape it to the cardboard in its location. That helps immensely to get everything back to where it belongs and prevents having something get lost or ending up with "leftovers".

Thanks for the advice on the battery latch. I didn't see that in any videos I watched but I'll certainly check before I force anything.

Again, I'm thinking this model doesn't have a CMOS battery (is that even possible?) per the "evidence" I mentioned above. But if I find one, I'll certainly replace it since it's 5+ years old at this point.

I did enter my BIOS and copied down all the settings "just in case". Most are at their default settings. The screens (12 total, IIRC?) also offer good information as to what each setting does. Many I don't understand so I'll never touch them. The only things I might change will be related to power management, but now that app I had Dell install helps me do that without having to enter BIOS at all.

The battery calibration you mention is similar to what I planned, but I'll do several cycles of full to empty, rinse and repeat. And I'm now with you that maintaining it at 80-85% max. is the best practice unless I want max. available capacity for an event like a plane ride. Presumably this Power Manager app will allow the battery to charge to whatever limit I select then stop the charging even if I leave the computer adapter connected. That's the convenience I want...time will tell. BTW - one of the battery management articles I read said that battery calibration should be repeated occassionally as the battery ages; I'll plan to do that as well.

Interesting about your method for "hot swapping" the coin cell. I was thinking of trying that (if I find one), but I would never use a sheet of ordinary paper to cover the mobo! Paper is one of the things that has to be kept out of an ESD-safe work area. I'd take a hunk of static-dissipative plastic sheet - like what a replacement board comes in - to make a mask and use that instead of paper.

Thanks again! I'll report back when the deed is done...

 

[bhelms]

I wouldn't do this. Just charge it to 100% after install, set the charging limit to 80% and don't run it below 20%. I set charging to start at 75%.

Little bumps in charging won't hurt it, it's the extremes you want to avoid.

Tks again! I think we're essentially on the same page, but several sources recommended the "calibration" cycle, initially and periodically thereafter, which is more about getting the computer and new battery to "shake hands" so the charge levels indicated are reasonably accurate than it is about battery health. My understanding is that the computer will shut down before the battery is completely exhausted although it might be lower than 20%. With the Power Manager app, it won't go below 50% as long as the adapter is connected. I rarely use this computer on battery but will now have to condition myself to not let it go below 20% when I do. I agree with avoiding the extremes.

The original 97-whr battery is shot. It will charge to 100% indicated but per the test I ran, it currently has only 63 whr capacity at that level, a strong indicator that replacement is needed. It will now power the computer for maybe an hour before it shuts down with no warning. In fact I have known about this condition for several years, but I'm just now getting around to dealing with it as I have several lengthy plane rides on the horizon and want to have at least a couple of hours of use available. IIRC it would run ~5 hours of moderate use when new. The degradation is totally on me vs. just age because I was keeping it connected to the adapter and at 100% almost all the time.

 

[navychop]

Would a tablet suffice for your needs?