Did I just get a 4200v doorstop?? (1 Viewer)

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Mr Tony

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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
Well won a 4200v off Ebay a week ago and got it today. I had a 4200 before (model C I think) but it never worked right and ended up getting fried.

So unboxed it today and the remote (woo hoo) and went out with the C-Band dish. Went to 91W and hooked up both the Pansat and the 4200. Locked 91W in and programmed in a TP. The one with Access TV (3880 H). Locked the signal and waited about 5 minutes for the VCT to download

flipped through the channels and all were black screen. Hmmm

Tried another TP...3960 This has JCTV on it...same issue...hmmm

Moved dish to 105 to try the audio channels and couldnt lock it. Oh well it was getting cold out.

Tonight I tried to lock Shaw Direct. I know there are some ZK channels on there. Hooked up to my Shaw setup and again programmed in the info and all I get is a black screen. I just dont get it. I've done probably 25 master resets and one each time I start to load a new TP in. But I cant get anything but a balck screen. The VCT matches what Lyngsat or another chart I have shows

Do I have a doorstop??
 
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turbosat

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 26, 2006
9,001
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If you tried all the video outputs, sounds like another ebay winner. Exact reason I won't buy anything off ebay.
 

Mr Tony

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Turbo
The on screen works fine so its not the outputs

Just trying to figure out why ZK items wont come in. I know if its new and not authorized it will only get zero key (ZK) items versus the ones that are authorized and can get FP stuff too
 

photoman76

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 8, 2005
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On Shaw Direct there are only 3 ZK channels:

Anik F1R

12155 H 19510 Sports Mosaic
11898 V 19510 PPV Info
12050 V 19510 BC Legislature

You might also try NET on Galaxy 28, lots of ZK channels there.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
Most of the Nebraska channels on G28 are ZK too, if you want to try those.

But that is strange. I'm curious re what firmware version is on it? If you go to that first diagnostic screen, it lists the firmware version about 4 times near the top. To the left is what was original, to the right is what is actually running on the machine., and I think the middle numbers have to do with partial downloads or something.
Back in the mid-late 90s, there was a nasty firmware version that was being sent out on the Kentucky Ed TV signal, and it basically turned the receivers into doorstops, working only if authorized. People complained, and GI created a new version with a higher version number that brought back the old ability to view FP channels. I know that bad version made it impossible to view FP, but it's also possible that it keeps you from watching ZK too, I don't know.
The original version had some firmware number of 000030. The updated firmware that GI made for us was 00007C. The BAD version that KET sent out was somewhere in between, like in the mid 50s or something. Anyway if your firmware version is 30 or 7C, then you're OK, but if it's in between, that might be the problem.

Also, you say you did "master resets".... there are 2 resets, an authorization reset and a factory defaults reset. You should be doing the factory defaults reset, ie the one on the right. Also, don't forget that you need to use the time key, not the enter. A couple times after not using mine for a long time, I kind of forgot the procedure and got confused. If you haven't done the factory reset, it will lock transponders, but won't load in the new VCT properly, unless they happen to have the same ID# (there used to be a service on C3 that had the same ID# as a service on G3 I think, and I could go between those two without resetting, but generally you have to reset. But if the VCT wasn't loading in, then you'd have the wrong channel numbers, and I assume you are seeing the proper channel numbers?

Also, you didn't say whether the channels you were looking at were ID'd as ZK in the 2nd diagnostic screen? And it's not possible that you lost a lock on changing channels? Ie sometimes, if you try changing channels too soon, the VCT doesn't load in completely, and when you try changing channels, it takes you to a channel with different parameters, and the "7" at the top of diagnostic's C changes to 4 or 5 as you lose lock.

I've also run into one transponder that was in some strange mode where it wasn't sending out the VCT very often or not at all, so it's possible that the VCT is never loading in.... but again, if you're getting all the channel numbers you're supposed to, then that's probably not it either.

That's all I can think of, none of which are very likely the problem, but I can't imagine what would cause that problem otherwise. Ie if you're seeing the setup windows, you'd think that the video was working, so the thing that makes most sense to me is that you have some nasty firmware version.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
. Went to 91W and hooked up both the Pansat and the 4200. Locked 91W in and programmed in a TP. The one with Access TV (3880 H). Locked the signal and waited about 5 minutes for the VCT to download

flipped through the channels and all were black screen. Hmmm

Tried another TP...3960 This has JCTV on it...same issue...hmmm

...

I just went to G17, and tried the 3880 and 3960 transponders.
I don't see ANY ZK signals on those two transponders today.
So maybe it's just that they encrypted.
I'm using the Genpix, so I can't tell if it's FP or completely encrypted, but it's clear that there aren't any ZK signals on those 2 transponders or the Genpix would see them.

I'll go downstairs now, and try the 4200 on them.

EDIT: Just checked 3880. The two channels listed in Lyngsat are FP, not ZK. Also the next one they show encrypted is also FP.
No ZK on that transponder. I'll check 3960 next, but I expect the same.
EDIT2: Yeah, same thing on 3960, about 4 or 5 viewable channels, but all are FP.

So it looks like your 4200 is a "new", never authorized unit that only sees ZK.
Last time I looked, there are a bunch of ZK out there, but you can't tell which are which by looking at Lyngsat. But the NET channels are definately ZK, or at least all but 2 of the channels were ZK the last time I looked, about a week ago.
 
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tvropro

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Mar 9, 2007
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That 4200 needs a trip somehow from some commercial programmer. I think that's your issue it was never authorized. Years ago GPTV used to do it but now I don't have a clue who will.
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
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Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
On Shaw Direct there are only 3 ZK channels:

Anik F1R

12155 H 19510 Sports Mosaic
11898 V 19510 PPV Info
12050 V 19510 BC Legislature

You might also try NET on Galaxy 28, lots of ZK channels there.

I tried all 3 of those yesterday and nothing :(
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
291
39
Mankato, MN
Most of the Nebraska channels on G28 are ZK too, if you want to try those.
89W seems to be hard for the 6 footer to lock on

But that is strange. I'm curious re what firmware version is on it? If you go to that first diagnostic screen, it lists the firmware version about 4 times near the top. To the left is what was original, to the right is what is actually running on the machine., and I think the middle numbers have to do with partial downloads or something.
The original version had some firmware number of 000030. The updated firmware that GI made for us was 00007C. The BAD version that KET sent out was somewhere in between, like in the mid 50s or something. Anyway if your firmware version is 30 or 7C, then you're OK, but if it's in between, that might be the problem.
it shows 000030 3rd line down

Also, you say you did "master resets".... there are 2 resets, an authorization reset and a factory defaults reset. You should be doing the factory defaults reset, ie the one on the right.
nope the master reset is what I hit. I printed the instructions that you posted on how to program it ;)
But if the VCT wasn't loading in, then you'd have the wrong channel numbers, and I assume you are seeing the proper channel numbers?
yes I'm seeing the right VCT numbers that match up with Lyngsat or in the case of Shaw Direct the chart from Shaw Broadcasting

That's all I can think of, none of which are very likely the problem, but I can't imagine what would cause that problem otherwise. Ie if you're seeing the setup windows, you'd think that the video was working, so the thing that makes most sense to me is that you have some nasty firmware version.
the firmware shows 000030 across the board. I'll try the TP you and photo posted

Also the music channels on W5 & G5 are still ZK right? or are they FP?
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
OK...I tried 4115 and it locks fine. Gives me 100-110 & 123-126 but no picture. Just black screen

gonna try the music channels on G5...I can get a strong signal there
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
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Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
well I tried the music channels and nothing :(

did factory reset
put in the setup info right
entered in the correct TP info and said tune...green light came up
did 4-4 and it showed a 7 in the corner
let it sit for 15 minutes
hit "view" and the channel numbers show properly (101-156) but nothing :(

I think I have a doorstop...the trip counter does say 0000
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
OK...I tried 4115 and it locks fine. Gives me 100-110 & 123-126 but no picture. Just black screen

gonna try the music channels on G5...I can get a strong signal there

I was confused by your channels numbers, because I looked at that sat with my Genpix, which numbers them differently, but I just looked with the 4200.
100 on the 4200=1 on the Genpix
102 = 3
111 = 12 , etc.
You should get ZK on 102 and 111, and 101, 103, and 105 are FP .
The channels above 111 don't exist on that transponder, ie have the wrong parameters, and you'd lose lock on those.
As I mentioned in PM, 111 is ZK right now, but currently doesn't have any programming on it.

Anyway, it's strange that you wouldn't at least get 102. I thought for sure even a new 4200 would get ZK channels. I'm still curious what the firmware version is.
 

Mr Tony

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
291
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Mankato, MN
BJ
I didnt get anything on those channels on 91W...just black screen

I posted software version above

it shows 000030 3rd line down on diagnostic a
 
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B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
well I tried the music channels and nothing :(

did factory reset
put in the setup info right
entered in the correct TP info and said tune...green light came up
did 4-4 and it showed a 7 in the corner
let it sit for 15 minutes
hit "view" and the channel numbers show properly (101-156) but nothing :(

I think I have a doorstop...the trip counter does say 0000

:confused: Too bad. All those audio channels are ZK for me, even a static video channel that has an advertisement. EDIT: actually all the channels have a "static video" with the programming info, the advertisement is moving video.

That's wierd that it won't do ZK. The trip counter will always be 0000. Mine was originally authorized by GPTV, and it would always come up as 0000 except when I was tuned to GPTV. I think it was originally authorized back in 96 or 97, and it was still getting hits right up until GPTV left satellite, so they must have not bothered to take the UID out of their stream.

EDIT: OK re the 00030 firmware. That's the original version. I never used mine before I got authorized so I'm not positive what it's supposed to do on ZK before authorization, but I was always under the impression that it would get ZK. Back then, I didn't know what channels were ZK, so when I bought mine, I just put it on GPTV and waited for them to send me an authorization, and it eventually popped in.
 
Last edited:

skysurfer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
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since resets don't appear to be the issue, I wonder if it's something else because virtual channels starting at 100 seem to be more like the default map than a map that was loaded in.

Did you go to the tuning screen, enter the parameters, hit "tune" or whatever the button is and see if you got a green light on the front panal?

After a while, you should go check the virtual channel list to make sure it's not the default virtual channel map. After that is done, you should go to Diag B and see what the diagnostics say (whether the are MP resulting in black screen or if you get FP or ZK with no audio/video when there should be assuming your unit has had its hit before.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
since resets don't appear to be the issue, I wonder if it's something else because virtual channels starting at 100 seem to be more like the default map than a map that was loaded in.

Did you go to the tuning screen, enter the parameters, hit "tune" or whatever the button is and see if you got a green light on the front panal?

After a while, you should go check the virtual channel list to make sure it's not the default virtual channel map. After that is done, you should go to Diag B and see what the diagnostics say (whether the are MP resulting in black screen or if you get FP or ZK with no audio/video when there should be assuming your unit has had its hit before.

I thought the same thing re the channel numbers starting at 100, but he seems to have the correct VCTs. His channel numbers agree with what I get on my 4200, and he said he was getting the 7 in diagnostic C, so he's locked on.

I know from personal experience that a new 4200 won't get FP until authorized, but my unit was authorized before I ever tried a ZK, so I'm not positive about ZK, but from everything I've read, they are supposed to get ZK without authorization, so this is strange.

The audio went out on my 4200 once. Everything worked, but one of the audio channels went out, so I guess it's possible that there is some video processor that's gone bad, but since the audio is separate from video, and he's getting the setup screens, that doesn't seem likely. Really sounds like it's just not showing video because it hasn't been authorized. With all the numbers on those diagnostic screens, there must be one there which indicates authorization state, except it's almost certain that it hasn't been authorized. I almost wonder if someone had messed with it, trying to get it to receive FP or other programming, and made it not even receive ZK?

Perhaps Ice should go over to the commercial DCII forum at satforums and ask a question there. It could take a month to get an answer, but there should be someone that has experience with un-authorized receivers there.
OR... maybe, since Nebraska still has DCII service, perhaps they could be convinced to put his UID in the authorization stream. Tell them that he want's to see their pledge drive, but his receiver needs authorization to see the channel. :)
But UID is another question.... IE I wonder if perhaps the battery failed, and the UID is corrupt? IE perhaps the firmware uses the UID to decide whether the unit is authorized, and it can't even get through that routine to decide what it can display without a valid UID? The UID is displayed on Diagnostics A, in the upper right just below the 4200V. This UID should be the same as what is on the tag just below the power plug in the back.

Speaking of the power cord, if nothing else, ICE can use the power cord. I think that the 4200V power cord works in an AZBOX. :eek:
 
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