Digital subchannels

[Peter Parker]

This sia totally uncientiific poll. It is here more tos ee how much discussion it generates.

Do commercial lchannels in your area have digital subchannels? If they do have ou noticed any difference in the audio or picture quality because of these?

 

[navychop]

COMEON - I want you to do a totally scientific poll here.

Our local PBS screwed up their primary HD channel so much I simply no longer watch them. 2 & 3 subchannels while trying to do HD simply is way too much. I don't even want one subchannel going while HD is on, unless it's a very low bandwidth thing like the weather.

 

[Jim5506]

NBC, FOX and PBS have one subchannel each.

I notice the lack of bandwidth on NBC when the Tonight Show comes back after commecrial and Jay comes in blurry then in about a half of a second it clears up. Any time the whole screen changes there is that delay before the 1080i clears up.

Fox does not seem to have this problem, but they are 720p, having about 12% fewer pixels to push per second.

I haven't seen it on PBS either, even at 1080i.

 

[ziggy29]

I think it's interesting in that the people who are the most critical of HD OTA subchannels are the ones who are most likely the ones who can spend a hundred bucks a month on programming. These are the ones who will have the best equipment for the best picture, but they are likely the ones who already have 100 other channels available. Those who want OTA to ditch the cost of cable/satellite probably value the additional choices more than the absolute best picture.

I personally can't dogmatically get on one side or another. I do appreciate the additional programming choices, but there are times when I wish the bandwidth was all given back to the primary HD channel, depending on the programming. (Imagine watching football on HD with 3 or 3 subchannels.)

So really, I like subchannels used judiciously in ways that don't rob too much HD bandwidth from the primary channel when it needs the bandwidth most.

 

[voomvoom]

I voted:
Yes but I cannot say that there is any difference, although I'm sure there is, I just don't see it

but the only local with a sub-channel only has Doplar Radar and a Blank channel, used for "March Madness"
Also, the State has just begun implementing the PBS, and it has 2 sub-channels with the HD channel that are currently Simulcast. Don't watch it (GPB) enough to notice anything?

I would like for one of the locals to pick up RTN as a sub-channel....!!!


Edit: sorry about that sleepybear, I was talking about PBS (which is GPB, Georgia Public Broadcasting) in my question... which I hardly ever watch...

 

[sleepybear]

This sia totally uncientiific poll. It is here more tos ee how much discussion it generates.

Do commercial lchannels in your area have digital subchannels? If they do have ou noticed any difference in the audio or picture quality because of these?

Don't really understand your question. Maybe you could re-type it? As opposed to PBS ? or are you talking non network independents? Because there are very few stations without at this late date.

 

[techno935]

If we are going to have more subchannels (like ION affiliates, listen up!) Put something better on TV!

Sorry to rant like this, but bandwidth SHOULDN'T be taken up by garbage programming! I had hope when The Tube was on the air back in the day, but now I'm VERY disappointed.

 

[Anole]

One man's TUBE, is another man's ION !
It all depends on what you want to trade off for what.

In LA, CBS has no subchannels. (1080i)
NBC (1080i) and ABC (720p) have both news and weather subs.
Fox and MYnet have none, and are 720p.
Our two PBS stations, are 1080i, with three subs each.
KSCI channel 18, an international independent, has no HD, but SIX 480i channels!
Several other stations have four or five 480i only channels. (no HD)

Some time ago, I logged one Mexican channel, with 480 so beautiful, I swore it was HD.
Just happened to be using the new equipment, in the local studio, with beautiful people, and properly lit.
Many station's feeds are old video tape (or crap satellite) with no sparkle... no snap.

Sometimes when you see crap, it's crap that's being broadcast.
We have such a wide assortment here, with 20+ stations, and 50+ subchannels, it's hard to keep track of which is what. -

 

[jgantert]

Love those subchannels! I'll trade the pixels for RTN, TUBE, or GoodTV anyday! You can keep the SD and weather channels tho. And forget those stations that try to run HD + 3-4 (or more) SD feeds like Ion or Mhz, they look horrible. HD + 1-2 way over-compressed SD feeds looks fine on the HD side.

 

[jegrant]

Actually, I've noticed bad subchannel quality which is probably caused by overly favoring the HD stream on my PBS, WFYI-DT. WFYI+ 20.3 is getting really really pixelated lately, and I've been watching it on cable, so it's not a reception issue. Plus the HD is always crystal clear. OTOH, they would probably get more complaints if they lowered HD quality, and (I guess) HD viewers are possibly more likely to donate than SD viewers.

Also, our NBC, WTHR-DT, has one weather channel which is really squeezed so it won't affect HD quality. SkyTrak Weather Network WTHR 13.2 has scratchy, compressed audio, and extremely soft (but thankfully, not pixelated) video.

On the other hand, WRTV 6.1 HD is well balanced against a very good looking WRTV 6.2 6News 24/7 subchannel. 6.2 looks great and rarely if ever suffers compression artifacts.

 

[sleepybear]

One man's TUBE, is another man's ION !
It all depends on what you want to trade off for what.

In LA, CBS has no subchannels. (1080i)

Whoa !! CBS has no sub channels in LA? Man that is something, I can get 4 markets from here and the worst CBS has at least one weather.

 

[rglore]

I notice the lack of bandwidth on NBC when the Tonight Show comes back after commecrial and Jay comes in blurry then in about a half of a second it clears up. Any time the whole screen changes there is that delay before the 1080i clears up.
.

That's a side effect of doing live on the fly MPEG encoding with limited bandwidth. Pre-recorded shows can be much better quality by using multipass encoding and other more time consuming techniques. Live shows will have less quality with a lot of motion and scene changes until more powerful real time encoders are developed.

 

[dmag]

My local PBS station has two subchannels in addition to the primary channel, however, at 8PM when the primary channel goes hd the second subchannel goes dark.
So they have the best of both worlds, additional channels without any degradation of the highdef.

 

[Peter Parker]

there are very few stations without at this late date.

Actually the point is to see what the practice is (or what the folks in this forum have observed) and what they think of the sound and picture quality as a result.

In my area some stations have a fair number of subchannels and some so not. the breakdown does not seem to be based on whether they are network or indy stations although maybe in your area that is the case. I think you were saying that PBS stations all have subchannels. Thatt is not quite true. many of them do. I suspect that most do. But in my are as an example one of the three I receive OTA does not. and as one other poster noted some of them drop one or more of the subchannels at certain times.

So just post your experience and hoe you feel it has affected sound and picture on the HD signal. Again this is not scientific just seeing what others think of this.

 

[sleepybear]

Actually the point is to see what the practice is (or what the folks in this forum have observed) and what they think of the sound and picture quality as a result.

In my area some stations have a fair number of subchannels and some so not. the breakdown does not seem to be based on whether they are network or indy stations although maybe in your area that is the case. I think you were saying that PBS stations all have subchannels. Thatt is not quite true. many of them do. I suspect that most do. But in my are as an example one of the three I receive OTA does not. and as one other poster noted some of them drop one or more of the subchannels at certain times.

So just post your experience and hoe you feel it has affected sound and picture on the HD signal. Again this is not scientific just seeing what others think of this.

No that is not what I said about PBS and yes I also hope it will improve sound and pic quality.

As I mentioned above we can get 4 markets of CBS and just one offers one secondary channel being the weather all the rest have at least two. I can get 3 PBS's here daylight and another two additional nighttime. All 5 of them have at least 2 subs, most offer a secondary language (spanish). The quality of all CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS I get look true HD but the sound I'm not so sure about. We have several religious and one Fox in which the pictures are terrible, looks like they are re- re- broadcasting analog. That's right I said re-re. But as for the quality in average across the board I'd say it's great. Looks like most stations have a good start. On the subject of what they are broadcasting well that's another story. With the exception of PBS, Most have a secondary to time lag the local news, everyone has weather. As a matter of fact there is not much in addition to watch like was originally announced. One or two have MTV3, one has America One and we have a couple YTV's.

 

[reddice]

I was watching WNBC 4 the other day Sunday as best as I can get it with a yellow single strength, if I just breath on the antenna it will pixelate and break up and I am right in the city and even though it has 2 or 3 sub channels it looked great at 1080i.

 

[ozzy1028]

The digital subchannels here in flint, mi are ridiculous. The sound is so muffled it hurts my ears to listen and the color in the picture is way too washed out. I dont even know why they bother with these in all honesty.

 

[reddice]

Also a lot of the sub channels are a waste. Except for 4 and 7 having a weather channel. 7.2 sub channel is mostly infomercials. Almost every time I put it on they have a stupid infomercial on.

 

[vurbano]

Wow only 15.38% of those polled know anything about the horrific affects of subchannels on the HD channel.

82% said yes but I cant see any difference? Thats sad.

 

[MW390]

There's on ONE station in NYC that doesn't have a digital subchannel. WCBS-DT. I did notice a subchannel one day while flipping through and it was the Democratic Convention, but went dark after that. I think maybe ONE sub channel is ok but not if it's crap. How many more GD weather channels do we need? Weather/traffic/weather/traffic. Local WABC here has 2 subchannels both unwatchable at 480i with crap on them.

I once read a book by Fred Friendly (good buddy of Ed Murrow - if you don't know who HE then....) where the problem with TV profits was that there was only 24 hrs in a day. Newspapers could print more ad pages but TV couldn't. Well now they can but I doubt many people even know of the sub-channels. Cable TV has proven beyond all doubt that there IS a limit to talented people and interesting programming.