"Disappearing" Ku channels?

Status
Please reply by conversation.

phlatwound

SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Lifetime Supporter
Dec 25, 2007
3,326
376
Goosapeak Junction
Pull up an easy chair, this is a long one.......:)

I've been having a problem for quite a while with not being able to easily view Ku channels on my setup.

I emphasized easily because I have figured out how to get them, they just don't usually appear when they are first selected.

Example: I drive my Ku dish to 123W and when it gets there let's say it was on WNGS last time, so that is the channel that is selected when the dish stops moving......no picture. Flip through other channels/tps on the same Ku satellite....no picture. A while back I discovered that I could get the picture sometimes by flipping back and forth from TV/Radio with the remote...and sometimes I could get it by selecting the Cu sat that I had my BUD pointed at, then going back to my selected Ku sat.

Well, last night I discovered something that has worked every time (so far at least)......by doing a soft On/Off power cycle with the remote, the selected Ku channel comes up immediately. But then if I go to another channel...no picture...do a soft power cycle.....yes picture. !sadroll

Here's a few more clues:

1.) Don't think I have ever had this problem on C-band

2.) It doesn't always happen on Ku but does probably 90% of the time.

3.) This has been happening for several weeks, last week I completely tore down my receivers and cabling in the house to redo them for a entertainment center swapout.......no change.

4.) At one time I thought that this problem seemed to be worse on weaker tps but that doesn't seem to be consistent. You can go the the signal search menu when this happens and see a very viewable quality level indicated, then exit out of the menu and.....nothing.

5.) I only have 1 switch in my entire setup (Ecoda), tried swapping it out for a new one that I had....no change.

6.) I bypassed my Ku dish motor (DG380) to see if I was getting some signal loss there....no discernible loss, no change.

7.) Wondered if my Visionsat was just getting gummed up with too much data but I haven't tried doing a factory reset, wasn't sure what I would lose and didn't want to start over unless I had to (and without some coaching).

I don't do a lot of blind scanning but I occasionally add some new stuff, when I do blind scan I always delete the scrambled channels or stuff I know I won't watch just to save memory.

All of the above is controlled by my Visionsat, have a Toshiba analog box to move/change polarities on my BUD, Ku all comes from my .9 meter 3ABN dish.....my dishes are picced in my avatar, more hardware clues in my sig.

Like I said, I can make it work, it's just very annoying, and hoping you all might give me some clues as to things I might look at to cure this, thanks. :confused:
 
You are not alone...

I have a newer CS5000 that acts strange on occasion. Cycling the power fixes the hiccups. I suspect that power fluctuations, surges, late night dropouts, and static electricity, are affecting memory and control functions.

Sometimes the box is a tad slow bringing up the selected channel.

Overall, it's rare.

I have a second older CS5000 that I purchased off eBay. I am discovering problems with this box that are not present in the newer one. Rolling the channel selection in one direction works fine in bringing up the channel. Rolling down in the opposite, brings up black screens with audio only. Sometimes, it will buzz, then go pop, resulting in the box resetting itself!

It's all part of the exciting world of FTA. :hungry:

My guess is that when the manufacturer rushes to get these boxes to market, they have minor bugs that never get fixed.
 
Is it only the Visionsat, or any receiver connected to the 3ABN?

Not sure, the only other receiver I have hooked up now is the Diamond (it's looped out from the Visionsat), and I use it almost exclusively for C-band.

That's a good idea, I'll try it today, thanks. :up
 
You are not alone...

I have a newer CS5000 that acts strange on occasion. Cycling the power fixes the hiccups. I suspect that power fluctuations, surges, late night dropouts, and static electricity, are affecting memory and control functions.

Sometimes the box is a tad slow bringing up the selected channel.

Overall, it's rare.

I have a second older CS5000 that I purchased off eBay. I am discovering problems with this box that are not present in the newer one. Rolling the channel selection in one direction works fine in bringing up the channel. Rolling down in the opposite, brings up black screens with audio only. Sometimes, it will buzz, then go pop, resulting in the box resetting itself!

It's all part of the exciting world of FTA. :hungry:

My guess is that when the manufacturer rushes to get these boxes to market, they have minor bugs that never get fixed.

Yeah, it still amazes me what these FTA receivers will do, at the price they sold for new the manufacturers couldn't have more than $40-50 in the cheaper models. I shouldn't be surprised at some of the weird stuff that pops up occasionally.

Guess if I didn't want to have something to worry and whine about I could get a pizza dish sub.................Nah!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 
frequency accuracy ?

For the receiver to tune to and lock onto a station, it tries to receive a frequency it has in memory.
Now that transponder frequency may have come from a factory list.
It may have come from manual input
It may have come from blind scanning.

But there are a number of accuracy problems with that number:
- the initial number may be wrong for a plethora of reasons
- the frequency accuracy of the receiver may be off
- the frequency accuracy of the LNB may be off
- either of the latter two above may be affected by age, voltage, or temperature.

Once your receiver tunes close to a desired frequency, it's then up to the AFC (automatic frequency control, or what passes for it in todays digital receivers) to fine-tune the last little bit.
So, one thing you could evaluate, is whether any of the many frequency accuracy problems affect this slow-lock problem.
Tuning from a high frequency to your lower channel and having trouble, but tuning from a lower frequency to your higher channel and -not- having trouble would be a symptom.

When you find the problem, note the time of day, outdoor weather, and interior room temperature (as well as how long all the associated equipment has been on).
It could be that a very hot hi-fi amp or TV in your entertainment cabinet is an unwanted heat source.
Or of course, it could be the angle of the sun, shadows on your LNB, wind, etc.

Anyway, to see if this is a problem wait 'till you find the bug, then try changing that transponders frequency up and down in 2mhz steps.
If it affects your lock-time, you can then repeat the test at other times of day (or temperatures) to track down the cause.
It could be related to just one temperature-sensitive, or off-frequency LNB, so be sure to keep track.

And of course, it could be some thing entirely different. - :rolleyes:
 
the only other receiver I have hooked up now is the Diamond (it's looped out from the Visionsat), and I use it almost exclusively for C-band.

Does it have this problem with no other receivers connected ??
 
For the receiver to tune to and lock onto a station, it tries to receive a frequency it has in memory.
Now that transponder frequency may have come from a factory list.
It may have come from manual input
It may have come from blind scanning.

But there are a number of accuracy problems with that number:
- the initial number may be wrong for a plethora of reasons
- the frequency accuracy of the receiver may be off
- the frequency accuracy of the LNB may be off
- either of the latter two above may be affected by age, voltage, or temperature.

Once your receiver tunes close to a desired frequency, it's then up to the AFC (automatic frequency control, or what passes for it in todays digital receivers) to fine-tune the last little bit.
So, one thing you could evaluate, is whether any of the many frequency accuracy problems affect this slow-lock problem.
Tuning from a high frequency to your lower channel and having trouble, but tuning from a lower frequency to your higher channel and -not- having trouble would be a symptom.

When you find the problem, note the time of day, outdoor weather, and interior room temperature (as well as how long all the associated equipment has been on).
It could be that a very hot hi-fi amp or TV in your entertainment cabinet is an unwanted heat source.
Or of course, it could be the angle of the sun, shadows on your LNB, wind, etc.

Anyway, to see if this is a problem wait 'till you find the bug, then try changing that transponders frequency up and down in 2mhz steps.
If it affects your lock-time, you can then repeat the test at other times of day (or temperatures) to track down the cause.
It could be related to just one temperature-sensitive, or off-frequency LNB, so be sure to keep track.

And of course, it could be some thing entirely different. - :rolleyes:

Interesting stuff, thanks Anole.

I'll try to pay more attention to some of the external conditions when this happens, tuning from high to low or vise versa doesn't seem to affect it. Your thoughts did jog another possible clue, sometimes (rarely) the channel will come in if I just let it sit, it may take 10 or 15 seconds though.

When I first hooked this setup up in basically it's present configuration it didn't do this, that is what made me wonder if it was a "memory overload" issue, but it seems limited to Ku only so that didn't make sense to me.

We changed from a typical entertainment center to just a base cabinet so that I could easily cable all my equipment, and I'm sure that helped on possible (interior) heat-related issues since I don't have to stack anything anymore, and all the units sit out in the open with nothing over them.

So many variables, so little time.......;)
 
I had an issue the other evening with my Visionsat after doing a blind scan of either AMC 4 or G16. When I came to either of 2 channels (which both had the same call letters), the box froze up until I turned it off on the back. After a couple episodes of that I just deleted the channels and haven't had a problem since.
 
Is it only the Visionsat, or any receiver connected to the 3ABN?

The Diamond is hooked to the LNB out of the Visionsat..........

If I can't see the channel on the Visionsat then I can't see it on the Diamond.

If I can see the channel on the VS I can see it on the Diamond.

Also I found that my "trick" of a soft power cycle does not work all the time after all. :(
 
Does it have this problem with no other receivers connected ??

I tried unhooking the Diamond from the Visionsat, so the Visionsat was the only one connected, I could tell no diference.

Nothing worse than an intermittent problem. If it was consistent it might make sense, but I'll keep messing with it and see what happens. ;)
 
I'm really still a newbe at all this and probably will show my ignorance, but judging by the radio/tv experience I've had in the past, it sounds as though there's a faulty connection/cable somewhere. By switching off then on, it seems your "jolting" a connect that's sufficient enough to hold the signal but then loses it if something changes, like swapping to another channel. Might I suggest looking for loose, or dirty/corroded connections, or maybe a pinched feedline (coax) somewhere between the LNB and the suspect receiver? Another thought was a failing LNB.

Bill
 
All suggestions are welcome DD, if I was any greener I could pass for a 6' tall, 200 pound leprechaun!!! :D

I have been going through my cables and changing them out and have tried a couple of other LNBFs. If nothing else works I am going to switch my C and Ku coaxes in my ribbon cable and see what that does. Also considering taking the Visionsat out to the dish and seeing how it works on Ku only without all the cable in the setup.

Per Hermitman's suggestion I have eliminated my switch and my initial testing with it out is very encouraging, I'll know more tomorrrow. Things seem to be working all right with it turned on, but for my troubleshooting should I turn off the 22 Khz tone on my Ku sat setups, since I have removed the Ecoda switch?
 
Phlat, is it a 22K switch or just a diseq? If its a diseq, just turn 22K off all together.

It honestly sounds like a switch problem to me. How long is the run of coax out to the dish as well? May need an amp if its a long one.
 
Phlat, is it a 22K switch or just a diseq? If its a diseq, just turn 22K off all together.

It honestly sounds like a switch problem to me. How long is the run of coax out to the dish as well? May need an amp if its a long one.

The Ecoda is a 22K switch. It is mounted in my cabinet in the house and the inputs receive Ku in from BUD (to LNB A/22KHz) and C-band (to LNB B/0KHz) from the non-powerpass side of my hi-freq splitter, then the output goes to my Visionsat LNB in.

My coax run is no more than 100'. Since my BUD is C-band only I hooked my Ku dish into the unused RG-6 in my existing ribbon cable with a barrel connector to get it run into the house. :)
 
Did you try the Diamond alone?

I didn't try that because I haven't setup up any motor control at all in the Diamond, it's just used on the loop out of the Visionsat for HD & S2 signals.

I was afraid if I tried moving the Ku dish with the Diamond it would get the dish out of sync for my Visionsat and I would have to start over. :confused:

I think that switch may be the problem, hope to get some time today to pursue that further.
 
Status
Please reply by conversation.
***

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)