DISEqC 1.1 & 1.2 functions compared?

[McGuyver]

I've recently wondered about the receivers that do and do not have the DISEqC 1.1 protocol option that controls up to 16 ports.

It's been noted here in an old 2008 thread that is closed but I question that too when I read what other sources say about switch control.

It's said that both 1.1 and 1.2 will control switches and up to 16 ports, and this struck me oddly as I never looked at 1.2 for switch control but only for motor control.

I wrote to Ma Wang at X2 and he informed me that the 1.2 will control the 8X1 switch that I want to use with his model receiver, the X2 Premium HD. I'm not able to test this before getting the receiver, which is sometime next week.

I do have other receivers that I can test this on, being that most of my stb's don't have 1.1 but do have 1.2.

My question is to question what is practiced and known here at this website. Iceberg does not mention this nor includes it as it is written by other sources. One is this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiSEqC

Look at the chart on the web page of the link above and see what I'm comparing to.
?
Has anyone used DISEqC 1.2 to control an 8X1 multi switch?

Thanks Guys!

 

[updatelee]

If a switch supports 1.2 then sure, if the switch only supports 1.1 then there is no way 1.2 commands will work on it, they are different. I cant really see alot of switch's supporting 1.2.

UDL

 

[FaT Air]

Think it's pretty well explained on the wikipedia page.
1.0 will operate a 4 port diseqc sw.
1.1 will operate your larger switches only. *Not compatible with 1.0
1.2 will do that and and add "single axis motor control". (VBox-Gbox)
1.3 USALS motor control added to the above.

2.x includes the return communication ability. How this is implemented in hobbyist receivers is a question I have. To turn off the "Dish Moving" indication? Tell you a switch didn't 'switch'? etc.

 

[FaT Air]

1.2 isn't a requirement for the switch, as 1.2 is 1.1 with motor control feature added as explained above.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Agree with updatelee. Two completely different protocols and not compatible. DiSEqC 1.1 and DiSEqC 1.2 commands are unique. DiSEqC 1.2 commands will not control a 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 switch.

I understand that there are some switches available that operate on DiSEqC 1.2 commands, but they are rare and I have never observed one in the wild...

 

[FaT Air]

DiSEqC Digital Satellite Equipment Control. A standardised method for two-wayDiSEqC™ is a trademark of Eutelsat.

?well, think we should all go and read up at Specifications and associated documentation for the DiSEqC™ (Digital Satellite Equipment Control) system
?Only thing is I don't have the time right now. did download the receiver labeling spec (scrnshot from pdf)
?

 

[Keith Brannen]

EMP Centauri switches (8x1, 16x1, etc.) can use DiSEqC 1.2 protocol, which is very handy if your receiver doesn't have DiSEqC 1.1. Worked well on my Pansat 3500SD. With the DiSEqC 1.2 protocol I was able to put the switch on port 1 of a 4x1 to get additional satellites. The switch I have only does DiSEqC 1.1 (committed/uncommitted), which I use now that the switch is on the AZBox Ultra, but later versions of my switch also included DiSEqC 1.1 (1-8 uncommitted).

While it could be a pain to setup (patience required!, see review below) it was well worth the effort in order to be able to add additional satellites.


http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/90581-EMP-Centauri-8-x-1-(GOTO-nn-switch)

 

[FaT Air]

The "1.2" switch is using the GOTOx motor commands to select ports. "GOTO nn switch"
Receiver sends motor position 1 = port 1, 2 = port 2, etc.
A 1.1 switch is still usable in that situation.(?) With the Pansat 3500SD motor positions(diseqc 1.2) 01 thru 26 are 'predefined' and not user programmable. Could this be for the "1.2 switch' functions? Seems plausible as that is what you were doing.

Receiver_[1.2sw]---1.1sw--lnbs
. . . . . . . .| . |. \___1.1sw__more lnbs
. . . . . . . .| . \____another, etc.
. . . . . . . .\____could a motor be here?__lnb

 

[SatelliteAV]

DiSEqC 1.2 "GoTo nn" command directs any device inline with that saved position to execute the command. It could be a switch or a motor position. DiSEqC 1.2 commands can be used in conjunction with other inline devices using DiSEqC 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0. The DiSEqC types are not interchangeable and each type issues a unique DiSEqC command that will only control a device of the same DiSEqC type and command line.

The ability to edit the DiSEqC 1.2 position assignment makes no difference if the STB can be used for DiSEqC 1.2 switch control. The satellite would simply need to be connected to the corresponding preassigned port of the DiSEqC 1.2 switch. Example: If Galaxy 19 was preassigned by the receiver to be DiSEqC 1.2 position #1, then the switch port #1 would need to be connected to a dish aimed at Galaxy 19.

 

[FaT Air]

Yes, then instead of going directly to G19 lnb, a diseqc 1.0 or 1.1 switch after the 1.2sw to go to 97, 103, 30 or 99.
programming would be motor position #1, switch position 1 for 97, 2 for 103, 3 for 30, or 4 on 99.

Would the DiSEqC 1.2 switch= 'uncommitted switch' ??
Thinking this because all I know for sure is an uncommitted switch has to be the first connected to the receiver,(read it all the time) like - motors, then the switches, then LNB's. (this appears the same)
Might this be the reason the Pansat3500 and others/ motor positions 1 thru 26 are not programmable to a user defined position? (to be use for these switches?) This 'uncommitted switch' has got me buffaloed as I've never found a definitive answer, guess I'm now asking for one.
Would this switch then use a 1.2 motor position command/ 1 thru 4/ to select port?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coolsat-FTA...oolsat-Soncview-iLink-receivers-/200951327776 it's got the 1.2 logo on it.

Do the 1.2 switches just ignore a motor position #56 command or error to some default?
Will it pass that command to a /externally powered/ motor?

 

[SatelliteAV]

Would the DiSEqC 1.2 switch= 'uncommitted switch' ??

DiSEqC 1.2 switching is uncommitted. As you pointed out, the DiSEqC 1.2 commands may be issued through multiple layers of compatible switches

Might this be the reason the Pansat3500 and others/ motor positions 1 thru 26 are not programmable to a user defined position? (to be use for these switches?) This 'uncommitted switch' has got me buffaloed as I've never found a definitive answer, guess I'm now asking for one.

STBs having assignable or preprogrammed DiSEqC 1.2 positions for each satellite position has nothing to do with determining switch or motor compatibility. It is simply the way the chipset is coded or the firmware was written. Some STBs allow DiSEqC 1.2 positions to be user assigned to a satellite other STBs do not allow the User assigned DiSEqC 1.2 positions. The user inputted assignment allows more flexibility in motor and switch programming.

Would this switch then use a 1.2 motor position command/ 1 thru 4/ to select port?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coolsat-FTA...oolsat-Soncview-iLink-receivers-/200951327776 it's got the 1.2 logo on it.

A little eBay lie... Coolsat switches are not DiSEqC 1.2. I recall that they are 1.0/1.1 type.

Do the 1.2 switches just ignore a motor position #56 command or error to some default? Will it pass that command to a /externally powered/ motor?

The switch ports are preassigned to the corresponding DiSEqC 1.2 position. If the port does not exist, the command does not exist and is ignored. Example: "GoTo 56" would call out a non-existent port on an eight port switch and would be ignored. If the DiSEqC 1.2 position is saved on a second device, that command would execute if the inline device is capable of passing DiSEqC commands.

 

[Keith Brannen]

The EMP Centauri switch I have won't work that way at all, as it also can be used as a standard DiSEqC 1.0 4x1 (though that would be a big waste of four ports). Therefore, a 4x1 after the EMP Centauri switch would not work, whereas, putting the EMP Centauri switch after a 4x1 (and using motor positions) did work. At one time, I was running 22 satellites through the combination of switches (plus 22KHz switches) with 16 on the 8x1, and 6 more on the other three 4x1 ports. Technically, I could have added three more 8x1 switches to the 4x1 ports, for a whopping total of 64 satellites!

I never could figure out what the 1-26 pre-defined motor positions were for on the Pansat, just used the programmable ones (and it didn't matter what order I saved the positions in relation to the switch ports, and in fact, as I moved/added LNBs and/or dishes to different satellites, I usually used a new number to save the position).

 

[FaT Air]

?Scratch/ rethink

and it didn't matter what order I saved the positions in relation to the switch ports

I can see the order not being a requirement. But the stored motor 'position' would have to be = to the programming burnt into the switch. I.E. you couldn't assign port 1 to motor position 36, and port 2 to motor position 55, etc. You'd have to program whtever motor position the manufacturer assigned to a port.

The switch ports are preassigned to the corresponding DiSEqC 1.2 position. If the port does not exist, the command does not exist and is ignored. Example: "GoTo 56" would call out a non-existent port on an eight port switch and would be ignored. SatAV

I can see this switch being a 'custom order' only. Or at least very expensive in the hobbyist market.


To add to my confusion, at http://www.emp-centauri.cz/index_.php?page=DiSEqC it states

The second byte of the DiSEqC “Write N0” command, the so-called Address byte, corresponds to the address of the switch or the accessories connected to a satellite receiver. For EMP-Centauri DiSEqC switches, the Address byte is “14 h” for switches with integrated power supply, and “15 h” for the other switches.

This would imply that your receiver would have to 'address' the switches with an address particular to the manufacturer. Scratch,scratch. How does my receiver know it's a EMP-C switch?? Does that mean the generator, below, cannot operate their switch? I don't see where 10h, or any of them, can be changed to 15h.


Made this list up as I couldn't find one anywhere. Used the DiSEqC generator here:
http://www.juras-projects.org/eng/software.php (he must have an 'inside track, There's also a USALS generator)

1.0,up to 4 ports,(one single 4x1 DiSEqC switch)
Port,command,
01,EOh 10h 38h F0h,
02,EOh 10h 38h F4h,
03,EOh 10h 38h F8h,
04,EOh 10h 38h FCh,
1.1, up to 16 ports-, (8 committed +8 uncommitted),
1.1,commands
UNCOMMITTED
01,EOh 10h 39h F0h
02,EOh 10h 39h F1h
03,EOh 10h 39h F2h
04,EOh 10h 39h F3h
05,EOh 10h 39h F4h
06,EOh 10h 39h F5h
07,EOh 10h 39h F6h
08,EOh 10h 39h F7h
COMMITTED
09,EOh 10h 39h F8h
10,EOh 10h 39h F9h
11,EOh 10h 39h FAh
12,EOh 10h 39h FBh
13,EOh 10h 39h FCh
14,EOh 10h 39h FDh
15,EOh 10h 39h FEh
16,EOh 10h 39h FFh

FWIW: DiSEqC 1.2 commands start off E0h 31h 6Bh + pos1=01h, pos63=3Fh


Deduced the uncommitted/committed from info at http://www.hypermegasat.com/FAQ.htm#8x1 dream
So there are 16 port DiSEqC 1.1 switches out there. Or 8 port UNCommited, and 8 Port Committed.

DiSEqC 1.1 components react to the uncommitted switches, which are four additional
control signals so that up to 256 IF signals can be controlled.

http://www.spaun.de/files/8df79_en_DiSEqC_for_Technicians.pdf
""1.1 components react to the uncommitted switches""is confusion, but
Starting to make sense.
From what i'm seeing, E0h- wake up, something coming
10h - stay here someting's coming , 38h yeah you 1.0 switch, switch to F8h
OR - 39h yeah you 1.1 switch. switch to F8h. ThankYou.

Should be able to wire the receiver-to-(1)1.0 switch-to-(4)8port uncommitted-to-(8)8port committed-
that would get the 256 LNB's I got planned. [4x8x8=256]*as stated in the spaun PDF
EOh 10h 38h FCh - EOh 10h 39h F3h - EOh 10h 39h FDh -
1.0sw-port4, Uncommitted-port4, Committed-port6. Yeah, 30w.

Think I've finally figured out committed and uncommitted.
While a switch using 1.2 motor positions for switch port assignments hasn't been spotted in the wild, by me, yet. Think they'd be awfully rare.

That's plenty of switching via 1.1 // 1.2 can be reserved for motor control and tuning, etc, in commercial installs.
Maybe build a DiSEqC switch for the BUD shaker, to shake the snow off. Another to turn on the xmas lites.

Another scratcher is "All EMP-Centauri switches support DiSEqC 2.0 commands, but they are also compatible with voltage/tone switching signals. If there is not a DiSEqC generator built in the satellite receiver connected to the switch, the switch is controlled by 13/17 V or 0/22 kHz or Tone Burst commands sent from the receiver. If the receiver with a DiSEqC generator is connected to the switch and the receiver sends a “Write N0” command to the switch, the switch is controlled by the DiSEqC command."
From what I've read earlier in the http://www.eutelsat.com/en/support/technical-support/diseqc.html
2.0 is 1.0 with the switch sending back acknowledgement that it switched. So does that imply they are sending acknowledge to the receiver, or that they are just a passive repeater from something further away from the receiver? It's really frustrating when there's no actual details, just the hype that it supports, or is compatible. How, in what fashion, does it 'support' 2.0. From every source I've read says the commands from the receiver are the same as 1.0. // 2.0 is when 2.0 switches, lnbs, etc, send an acknowledge back to the 2.0 receiver. If no ACK, it will resend the original command to switch until it get an ACK (or times out to an error/alarm I would guess)

Still, there has to be some reason for the 26(IIRR) positions that can't be programmed in a Pansat3500.(??)
IIRR the 9200 was the same.

 

[Keith Brannen]

Yes, I understand what you mean, whatever motor position code is for port one (etc.) has to be found by the receiver when moving the "motor" west/east when attempting to find the specific LNB you are searching for (which is why you have to have a unique transponder for that satellite to make sure you land on the correct one, since the receiver does cycle past all possible codes for the ports and would light up any LNB with that same transponder).

EMP Centauri also makes a 16x1 which can be used either as a "motor", or the 16 uncommitted ports, etc.

Later Pansat 3500SD firmware (at least B80.06 and up) did add 1-16 ports uncommitted, but not the committed/uncommitted combination that my switch required (as I said, later versions of my switch could use the 1-8 uncommitted function).

I never tried the 1-26 pre-defined settings in the Pansat when I had the 8x1 on the Pansat, would have been a good experiment to try to see if any matched the EMP Centauri switch motor position codes.

EDIT: Went into the Antenna setup of the Pansat, and then is no way to even access those 1-26 pre-defined settings, so no way to check what they are, or if they could be used with the EMP Centauri switch.

 

[FaT Air]

OK, got it, DIP switches to assign switch ports to 'motor positions' .
Pansats 26 unusable 1.2 positions probably will never make any sense.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Fat Air,

Many STBs (not just the Pansat) preassign a DiSEqC 1.2 position. The GEOSATpro DSR100/200DVR1100 STBs had 32 preassigned DiSEqC 1.2 positions assigned by satellite list position. Nothing mysterious about preassigned DiSEqC 1.2 positions other than a position is preassigned to a satellite list setting and not a user setting.

The Pansats 26 and the GEOSATpro DSR/DVR DiSEqC 1.2 positions are completely usable, but you just have to use them in the predetermined order of motor assignment.

 

[Keith Brannen]

OK, got it, DIP switches to assign switch ports to 'motor positions' .

Only on the later versions of the switch are there DIP switches, mine doesn't have any.

 

[McGuyver]

Yes, then instead of going directly to G19 lnb, a diseqc 1.0 or 1.1 switch after the 1.2sw to go to 97, 103, 30 or 99.
programming would be motor position #1, switch position 1 for 97, 2 for 103, 3 for 30, or 4 on 99.

Would the DiSEqC 1.2 switch= 'uncommitted switch' ??
Thinking this because all I know for sure is an uncommitted switch has to be the first connected to the receiver,(read it all the time) like - motors, then the switches, then LNB's. (this appears the same)
Might this be the reason the Pansat3500 and others/ motor positions 1 thru 26 are not programmable to a user defined position? (to be use for these switches?) This 'uncommitted switch' has got me buffaloed as I've never found a definitive answer, guess I'm now asking for one.
Would this switch then use a 1.2 motor position command/ 1 thru 4/ to select port?http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coolsat-FTA...oolsat-Soncview-iLink-receivers-/200951327776 it's got the 1.2 logo on it.

Do the 1.2 switches just ignore a motor position #56 command or error to some default?
Will it pass that command to a /externally powered/ motor?

@ Fat Air, you have some interesting thoughts and questions, and this point about the 4x1 sw with the 1.2 logo, and if it will control a motor on the other side (between RX and Motor) and after the 4x1 sw. I myself have not studied up much on this subject as we seem to still learn new things after many years of experience but from my experience with motor control, I have operated motors through a DiSEqC port on an EMP Centari 4x1 sw, Chieta Heavy Duty 4x1, and others, as well, and the motor will work but not so smoothly as if it were directly connected to the STB and without any switches.

The motor will and often get confused over signals, and do odd things against your user input settings. The examples are numerous, one is that it usually will confuse two sats and place them on the same assigned number and this is remedied if the Rx can edit these settings and have user assign the positions of the motor. Another is that when I try to park the motor on the 58.0W sat and scan it, it will not remain there and it will go to reference, and I can't get the motor to remember that position. It's likely due to it confusing it with another position or satellite ID, not sure how.

My new X2 Premium HD boxes did arrive and I now see how the DiSEqC 1.0 and 1,1 are setup in the Menu, and the 1.2 Motor and USALS. The X2 Prem has them all catagorized in a way that I've not seen on other stb's of my collection, too many to list but none are like the X2. The X2 has three main Option windows for setting these commands, the first is the DiSEqC 1.0 and 1.1 committed switches, it appears. This first setting scrolls through the 1.0 and 1.1 settings in one line, and the second row of numbers are 1-16.I believe it may be only for committed because it then has a second option window for setting the uncommitted switches with ports 1-16. The third option is for Motor control, alone, and USALS settings. The tweaks are plentiful in the X2 Menu options.

I have tested the X2 on a Sadoun Powertech Motor, the big one, and it's perfectly smooth in setting up with accurate and precise jogging ability for tuning.

The second setting window is Titled "Uncommitted" and seems that X2 has separated these commands as I describe. The uncommitted row are 1-16. Now, I am using a Digiwave 8X1 muti-switch DiSEqc with each receiver. I was using 4x1, and 22KHz switches in my configuration with the previous receivers cuz they didn't handle uncommitted switches, I was experiencing many problems with the use of the mentioned switches, 22KHz always failing, locking signals, slow channel changes, signal drops, etc.

I had the two 8X1 switches in my stock and wanted to try them but couldn't until now that I have this X2 STB. I can now use the Digiwave 8X1 sw in the configuration and rid of the 4x1 and 22khz switches. I'm using only one 8x1 sw with each box, and each is using the first 6 ports of the sw and the boxes work like a dream!!! They switch extremely fast and no more conflicts between LNB's as I had before. I use the first 6 port settings in the "Uncommitted" option in the X2 and did choose this after trying the first option as a committed 1.1 sw; it seemed to stumble with locking signals, and I quickly tried the uncommitted and it's a dream come true.

I'm overwhelmed with joy at this point because I can now proceed with major system configuration changes and install many new LNB's and parts that I was afraid of toasting. The X2 box works incredibly well with the Digiwave 8X1 multi-switch, and I understand after reading the specs that this switch is compatible with 1.2 motor control, (and perhaps USALS?) This switch also uses 8 diodes for full isolation of ports where other switches use only 4 diodes and parallel some commands, causing conflicts.

BTW, I also read that the Digiwave 8X1 multi-switch may be used in place of a Motor, using the 1.2 commands, and through port selection; I suppose that the switch emulates the motor positions.

Have a wonderful day!

 

[McGuyver]

The EMP Centauri switch I have won't work that way at all, as it also can be used as a standard DiSEqC 1.0 4x1 (though that would be a big waste of four ports). Therefore, a 4x1 after the EMP Centauri switch would not work, whereas, putting the EMP Centauri switch after a 4x1 (and using motor positions) did work. At one time, I was running 22 satellites through the combination of switches (plus 22KHz switches) with 16 on the 8x1, and 6 more on the other three 4x1 ports. Technically, I could have added three more 8x1 switches to the 4x1 ports, for a whopping total of 64 satellites!

I never could figure out what the 1-26 pre-defined motor positions were for on the Pansat, just used the programmable ones (and it didn't matter what order I saved the positions in relation to the switch ports, and in fact, as I moved/added LNBs and/or dishes to different satellites, I usually used a new number to save the position).

Hi, if I am reading your post correctly, I may help define the positioning system in Pansat and alike; the assigned numbers are related to the 360° configuration.
Each receiver type may represent this in various ways but the main idea is that they use simple math in determining the numbers for each position in a 360° circle. The position numbers are determined by subtraction of the satellite's geostationary positioning number, such as 110° subtracted from 360° is 250° and the receiver may assign this in a numbering system where it appears as example: 2503, or similar. Each number will have at least three digits for satellite positioning and it may or not be displayed the same way in any two receivers, although I'm sure there are some alike. Some display the positions as a 2 digit number and is not calculated in the same fashion, as this is internally coded and non-editable, except for choosing one of the predetermined positions.

Any time that you face a numbering system with 4 digit sets or similar, look at them in reference to the 360° circle of the belt and try to decipher their method. That's how I figured them out. They all use a full 360° spectrum, and all we need to do is figure out how each box defines the positions. I know, easier said than done!

 

[McGuyver]

Ku motor and 8X1 DiSEqC switch working together on my receiver

I've been testing my two new X2 Premium HD receivers. FYI, I was attracted to this STB for the DiSEqC 1.1 feature along with the DVB-S2 Blind scanner. I'm now reporting what I have experienced today with this STB and the 8X1 switch on uncommitted commands; I set up 6 fixed LNB's on the first 6 ports of the multiswitch and placed the Ku motor on port 7, input on the switch. I'm not all sure as to how this works together but in this receiver, it has many tweaks for setting these switches, and I'm also finding that this combination works very good. The motor works very well on three satellite positions so far. The switch then switches between the motor sats and the 6 fixed C and Ku band LNB's on the first 6 ports. I still have one port where I can use a 22KHz switch and possibly even a 4X1 switch or two.
?