Dish and 1080i upscaling on 4K (1 Viewer)

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SandFarmer

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Mar 21, 2009
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The Beach.
I gotta say I do love my Samsung Plasmas Great HD Pictures

My Samsung DLP was amazing. (That's why I was replacing TV's with new Samsung LEDs) With a new bulb it was a new TV. Then the chip started to fail. Should have gotten a then at $183. Now they are "Permanently Out of Stock" from my sources.
 

ekilgus

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 22, 2007
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Southeast US
Despite some criticism of Samsung TV's here by others, I have to say that my Samsung NU8000 75" TV is outstanding (after calibration). While it remains to be seen how long it will last, for now it's: so far, so good.
Besides, there isn't a TV brand on the market that doesn't suffer criticisms for one thing or another.
 
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SandFarmer

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Despite some criticism of Samsung TV's here by others, I have to say that my Samsung NU8000 75" TV is outstanding (after calibration). While it remains to be seen how long it will last, for now it's: so far, so good.
Besides, there isn't a TV brand on the market that doesn't suffer criticisms for one thing or another.

You're right, there are many TV manufacturers that get complaints. But not as many as Samsung, rising with the latter releases, and the others haven't gone from a 50% market share to 10% . . .
 

Radioguy41

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Aug 7, 2008
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I disagree 100 percent. The difference between an OTA local and dish local is very obvious to me. Major additional compression. It may look ok on static images but motion causes lots of problems. Static black backgrounds on TV shows are also a mess.
Motion issues and black background issues are a function of the TV. Scan rate, the ability to handle judder and the ability to handle black backgrounds are all issues controlled by the TV. If static black backgrounds are a mess on your TV then the TV is the problem. As for the locals, you have no idea what the signal looks like that Dish starts with so you can't say it's a Dish issue.

The vast, and I mean vast, percentages of issues people have with PQ is because the TV isn't calibrated correctly, if at all.
 

ekilgus

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 22, 2007
1,166
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Southeast US
You're right, there are many TV manufacturers that get complaints. But not as many as Samsung, rising with the latter releases, and the others haven't gone from a 50% market share to 10% . . .
Not "many" TV Manufactures that get complaints, ALL of them get complaints. If you're so down on Samsung TV's. the solution for you is not to buy one. Mine is perfect for me, and I expect it to last a while (years).
 

johnwadams

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
278
23
Arkansas
Motion issues and black background issues are a function of the TV. Scan rate, the ability to handle judder and the ability to handle black backgrounds are all issues controlled by the TV. If static black backgrounds are a mess on your TV then the TV is the problem. As for the locals, you have no idea what the signal looks like that Dish starts with so you can't say it's a Dish issue.

The vast, and I mean vast, percentages of issues people have with PQ is because the TV isn't calibrated correctly, if at all.
I have seen what I would have called a Moiré pattern, although that is probably not the correct term, in backgrounds of heavily compressed videos.
I am thinking of inside shots with out much motion on something like Law & Order reruns on USA or TNT.. i.e. What should be a solid gray wall will show up as splotches of different shades of gray. Same thing if you take a jpeg photo and heavily compress it. I never see it in sporting events or programs with a lot of movement. Same for watching CBS programs I have recorded. I just recently started capturing HD Video off my portable HD, originally recorded from DISH, to my computer for editing out commercials from concerts or saving just certain songs and did a lot of reading from folks doing this. If you reduce the bitrate, you can over compress and have a poor quality HD image. Also, the norm appears to be to select a high maximum bitrate and set the capture mode to "variable", so in scenes with less motion the program can increase the compression. Currently, my settings eat up about 1 GB per 12 minutes. That would work out to 5 GB per hour. My 1 hour OTA recordings using DISH take 3.5 to 4 GB. Same program recorded off sat using DISH will run 1.6 to 2 GB.
 
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ncted

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Jul 4, 2004
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I have seen what I would have called a Moiré pattern, although that is probably not the correct term, in backgrounds of heavily compressed videos.
I am thinking of inside shots with out much motion on something like Law & Order reruns on USA or TNT.. i.e. What should be a solid gray wall will show up as splotches of different shades of gray. Same thing if you take a jpeg photo and heavily compress it. I never see it in sporting events or programs with a lot of movement. Same for watching CBS programs I have recorded. I just recently started capturing HD Video off my portable HD, originally recorded from DISH, to my computer for editing out commercials from concerts or saving just certain songs and did a lot of reading from folks doing this. If you reduce the bitrate, you can over compress and have a poor quality HD image. Also, the norm appears to be to select a high maximum bitrate and set the capture mode to "variable", so in scenes with less motion the program can increase the compression. Currently, my settings eat up about 1 GB per 12 minutes. That would work out to 5 GB per hour. My 1 hour OTA recordings using DISH take 3.5 to 4 GB. Same program recorded off sat using DISH will run 1.6 to 2 GB.

I assume you know you are comparing apples to oranges there? OTA is MPEG2 while Dish LIL is MPEG4, which should take up about half the space at the same quality (in general).
 

johnwadams

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Dec 1, 2006
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Arkansas
I assume you know you are comparing apples to oranges there? OTA is MPEG2 while Dish LIL is MPEG4, which should take up about half the space at the same quality (in general).
Not, really, maybe. I guess I should have stated that I am saving the captures as MP4's.
 

sam_gordon

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
Not, really, maybe. I guess I should have stated that I am saving the captures as MP4's.
But it's been delivered to you via Mpeg2 vs. Mpeg4. Even allowing for the compression scheme differences, IMO, Dish (all MVPDs) are compressing the heck out of the signal. With extremely RARE exception, an OTA signal should look better than a MVPD delivered signal.
 

sam_gordon

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
I just recently started capturing HD Video off my portable HD, originally recorded from DISH, to my computer for editing out commercials from concerts or saving just certain songs and did a lot of reading from folks doing this.
I didn't think it was possible to get Dish recorded content on a PC. :smash
 

primetimeguy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 4, 2006
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St. Paul, MN
A TV cannot handle over compression and macroblocking from the source. Nothing to do with the TV. Comparing the same channel from dish vs OTA is not a TV calibration issue. For what it's worth I have a fully calibrated 75" Samsung ks9000.

Your points are valid, just not in this case. It is a dish problem.
Motion issues and black background issues are a function of the TV. Scan rate, the ability to handle judder and the ability to handle black backgrounds are all issues controlled by the TV. If static black backgrounds are a mess on your TV then the TV is the problem. As for the locals, you have no idea what the signal looks like that Dish starts with so you can't say it's a Dish issue.

The vast, and I mean vast, percentages of issues people have with PQ is because the TV isn't calibrated correctly, if at all.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
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FLEABttn

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 13, 2014
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VA
Motion issues and black background issues are a function of the TV. Scan rate, the ability to handle judder and the ability to handle black backgrounds are all issues controlled by the TV. If static black backgrounds are a mess on your TV then the TV is the problem. As for the locals, you have no idea what the signal looks like that Dish starts with so you can't say it's a Dish issue.

The vast, and I mean vast, percentages of issues people have with PQ is because the TV isn't calibrated correctly, if at all.

If OTA looks better to him on his TV when compared to Dish on his TV, it’s not a TV problem.

Low bitrate encoding has inherent problems with dark scenes and compression artifacts during high motion. The insistence that’s it’s everyone’s problem except Dish is tiring and sad.
 
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lucky86

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Sep 19, 2012
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OTA channels are also uncompressed, vs DISH locals that are compressed in order to be delivered without taking up all the satellite bandwidth. An OTA channel with strong signal should look clearer than the DISH provided local equivalent.
 
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