Dish and ESPN

[DodgerKing]

Life will go on without them.

I agree. I spend more time outside mountain biking, hiking, and skiing than I do watching baseball. Unfortunately the only way and the least expensive way I can watch every Dodgers game, if I want to, is through payed TV.

Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

 

[skysurfer]

How does the so called bean counters keep up with the churn?

Probably with the sub count at the beginning of the month or the middle of the month. I doubt any pay tv is growing fast enough or losing subs fast enough to make much difference over a two week period (that is unless DISH drops ESPN from its service.

 

[Frank Jr.]

Probably with the sub count at the beginning of the month or the middle of the month. I doubt any pay tv is growing fast enough or losing subs fast enough to make much difference over a two week period (that is unless DISH drops ESPN from its service.

You may be right, but does anyone outside of corporate really know the figures? I would love for Dish, Disney, Fox and ESPN to provide the exact numbers, but they won't. As subs all we get is a bunch of posturing, saber rattling and threats.

 

[Frank Jr.]

I agree. I spend more time outside mountain biking, hiking, and skiing than I do watching baseball. Unfortunately the only way and the least expensive way I can watch every Dodgers game, if I want to, is through payed TV.

Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

"if I want to" That goes right back to my first post in this thread.

 

[B_Kranski]

In my opinion, I think everyone is way to greety...Exspecially the networks...we have to pay to watch tv just to let them double dip and also have to watch stupid commercials. (at least if you are watching live tv anyways). These networks, cable channels and all of them will just keep raising the price until the streched out american economy makes it to where only middle class and above can even afford any kind of cable and that could be upper middle class. I personally hope that both Dish and Direct tv both stand up to ESPN and there outrages prices. This is one main reason why there should be ala-cart options. Then if you really want channels/packages then you pay for them...otherwise why make all people pay there outragous rates. I do like the channel but can live without it for sure...big deal one or two games I don't get to watch...and racing(already stopped watching that after Jimmy Johnson won 5 in a row). So I guess if I dont watch ESPN and its other channels then my bill should go down around $5 a month right? I am all for it and hope ESPN and any other greety networks that think it is ok to rob from americans during a bad finacial time go bankrupt in their crappy buisness model. Average rates should go up 3% or less each year or whatever inflation is...anything above that is hyway robery.

 

[ibanez_ax]

My reply wasn't directly to you but all. I keep tell you guys that you should read the article and not just reply to the post on the forum. It was saying that D* was not happy either.

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your post.

 

[mrschwarz]

Go ESPN! No, really, go! Make sports a premium tier or let the non sports fans come to Dish and let the sports fans pay the $15 billion. I would rather not.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Life will go on without them.

Sure, it does. I can confirm that from personal experience. I cancelled both my television and Internet back in January for a few weeks and there wasn't some sort of apocalypse -- nor did I disappear in a puff of smoke.

Having said that, it was a very frustrating experience. Maybe because I'm poor and have health issues, and therefore spend a lot of time sitting around (because sometimes I'm not always up to it physically, and other times because can't always afford to be going places), but it was a lot worse going without these services than I thought it would be. Might have helped if I could get over the air stations around here- though I mainly watch sports, and most sports have gone to cable primarily, the NFL excepted (and even there a couple games a week are on cable).

I mean, people can minimize it, but television and the like are an important part of people's lives, especially when they really love sports.

And you know what the one thing more frustrating than not having television is? Being forced to pay for it and not getting any channels you want to watch -- which is essentially the conundrum people who are under contract and lose their favorite sports channels face. For folks on limited incomes, television can be a large portion of their budget and a sacrifice -- and if you don't get what you signed up for and aren't allowed to quit, just so some big company can make record profits, it can really really tick you off.

 

[mike123abc]

I have an idea: How about Dish dig into it's billion dollar a year profit margin to pay the 10 extra cents a subscriber it would take to renew the nation's most popular cable sports channel? Radical notion, I know.

There seems to be some loss as to what the increase means... Lets say Dish is paying $4.69 for ESPN per sub per month under current contract which lets say lasts through 2012 (since Dish promises no price increase). Then they agree to the rumored new rate for 5 years starting in 2013 - 2017 and lets put it at the minimum double digit increase of 10%

2011: 4.69
2012: 5.07 8%
2013: 5.57 10%
2014: 6.13 10%
2015: 6.74 10%
2016: 7.41 10%
2017: 8.16

This is more than just 10 cents a sub extra. We are looking at $3.47. This one channel alone probably translates into a $7.00/month/sub price increase over that time (Dish is going to make money on the channel).

How many would leave Dish if the price was $15/month cheaper in 2017 without ESPN? More likely without Disney/ESPN it would be closer to $25-30/month.

ESPN has good ratings, but even with their highest rated programming 95% of households are watching something else. NFL football drawing 20 million (highest rated show) leave 290 million doing something else...

As with any channel there are die hard viewers that will leave the instant it drops (or the moment they can afford to break contract). The difference here is that most program disputes are a 10-25 cents negotiation, not enough to lower subs bills, but they add up with all the channels. This family of channels is price high enough to actually change customer bills.

 

[Link]

ESPN should be an add on package or those who care to have it. Then those that don't won't be affected by their high costs.

 

[Hall]

I just wish DISH would come out and make a public statement, but I know they wont as its their policy not to comment on contract negogations.

Companies do not, and should not, be expected to comment or respond to every silly little "story" either.

 

[Hall]

I think if they dropped ESPN DISH would have to lower peoples bills to indeed show them why they did what they did.

That would be HUGE thing for Dish to LOWER prices and point at dropping ESPN as the reason !! It will be a HUGE public relations win for them.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

This is more than just 10 cents a sub extra. We are looking at $3.47.

I see what you're saying. I missed that we were talking about an annual percentage increase on my first read-through of the article, but I just re-read it now, and you are correct.

This one channel alone probably translates into a $7.00/month/sub price increase over that time (Dish is going to make money on the channel).

I don't get why Dish has to increase their profit margin on the channel if the channel costs more. The profit margin portion doesn't really have to go up. I am not saying it won't, but they it doesn't have to.

How many would leave Dish if the price was $15/month cheaper in 2017 without ESPN? More likely without Disney/ESPN it would be closer to $25-30/month.

ESPN has good ratings, but even with their highest rated programming 95% of households are watching something else. NFL football drawing 20 million (highest rated show) leave 290 million doing something else...

As with any channel there are die hard viewers that will leave the instant it drops (or the moment they can afford to break contract). The difference here is that most program disputes are a 10-25 cents negotiation, not enough to lower subs bills, but they add up with all the channels. This family of channels is price high enough to actually change customer bills.

That would be HUGE thing for Dish to LOWER prices and point at dropping ESPN as the reason !! It will be a HUGE public relations win for them.

Well, if they were to, say, cut the price for AT120+ in half, yeah, that might even make me think twice about wanting to leave, if they kept the local RSNs and threw in Versus, NFL Network, and MLB Network to try to close the programming gap a little. I don't realistically think that's what they'd do, though.

More likely, if they cut their rates at all, it's by something like $5, and I'm not sure we get any "make good" channel additions of value. That to me doesn't make up for missing Monday Night Football, all the baseball and college basketball and football they show, Sportscenter, and everything else, especially if we are talking about missing the entire ESPN family of networks. For many sports fans, the way we look at our bill, is that really were paying to watch our favorite teams and select national games -- so the RSNs might actually be worth $25 of a $50 bill, then the ESPNs the next $10-$15, and then local networks (Mainly for NFL), and then maybe some channels that cover old sitcoms or whatever (Alright, and some wrestling ). Ever since I dropped to a tier that's missing my favorite news channel, I don't even think of it as paying for news -- sure, I'll occasionally flip to CNN, but I'd just watch news online or something if it wasn't there -- it's not destination programming the way MSNBC was for me.

Also, even though you might say "game x" only has a limited number of views at any given time, I think a lot of people pay for cable or satellite not so much for what they are watching on any given night, but because they know they have the ability to flip on their television and watch their favorite teams or big national games whenever they want. Knowing it's there and easily accessible has some value in and of itself. Even though I don't watch ESPN every day, the day when I really want to watch Monday Night Football and settle in with my beer and pretzels or whatever and find out it's not there-- that's a blow that really lessens the total value of the package for me.

It's like the Orioles. Do I watch every single game? No. But like last night when I finished walking the dog and really wanted to catch a couple innings, I turned it on and was really glad I had the option to do that. Today, I'm sort of watching the game in the background as I web surf and get some stuff done around the apartment -- it doesn't have my full attention, but I was excited when Guerrero drove in that RBI to put us up 4-3.

I don't know that ratings really tell the whole story on these things. Sometimes it's also about having the option to watch whenever you want to, even when you don't always exercise it. That's part of the value.

 

[dishrich]

(I posted this over at Claude's board) While I'm sure this would NOT make DISH sports subs happy, here is my take on this whole ESPN/DISH thing...

In light of the FACT that DISH IS bleeding subs every month, & NOT getting many new ones to replace those - maybe DISH just needs to concede those sports households to cable & DirecTV (which they actually HAVE for the most part!) & not only shed ALL the ESPN channels, but ALSO shed ALL those bandwidth hogging (HD) RSN's as well, which ALSO have high monthly costs. If non-sports households don't care about ESPN(s), they won't care about their RSN's, either.

Then, DISH network could take ALL that bandwidth & re-purpose it into carrying many other HD (& even SD) channels that they have never had the room for. (you DO realize that ALL those HD & SD RSN's are sucking up LOTS of CONUS bandwidth ) They would have enough bandwidth that they could carry every single HD feed of every premium channel multiplex. (like ALL 8 of the Cinemax HD feeds)

Then (& here would be the rub for DISH) LOWER ALL their base packages to reflect all those lower costs by NOT having to pay for those ESPN's & RSN's. Make DISH the destination for movie lovers AND all family-friendly programming that's out there. By lowering the price of their base packages, they could get more people to take premium channels - which BOTH DISH & those premium channels would make more $$$ on with all those added subs. They could even get more (premium) cable subs to switch to DISH, since except for FiOS & U-verse, not very many cable systems are carrying many HD premium feeds. (matter of fact, Comcast is in the process of DROPPING all the majority of those same feeds on ALL their systems)

(Only rub on the family-friendly prog - of course since Disney DOES own ESPN, DISH would probably have problems getting Disney (& all it's offshoots) AT ALL anymore...)

Now that they've made their prog more reasonable for money-strapped families, they need lower their totally RIDICULOUS pricing on additional receivers. If DirecTV can get by with $6/month for their dual-tuner DVR's, there is NO reason why DISH can't do the same. $17 for an additional 722 is asinine - that 2nd room COAX output is NOT worth an extra $7 over the $10 for a 612; it should have been a FREEBIE since day 1, since a 311 receiver is the SAME price! (same thing goes for those 222's)

Oh yea, how about getting back to the basics of selling - SATELLITE TV! Some of this other CRAP, like FREE Blockbuster, etc. is of ZERO value at the end of the day & is doing NOTHING to improve DISH's bottom line. I also really question Charlie "dabbling" in wireless - I really doubt after all is said & done, little to nothing will come of this exercise - & DISH will STILL be bleeding subs!
You do NOT see DirecTV doing all this kind of crap, but they ARE the ones getting all those new subs, no?

OK, I'll stop dreaming now - since DISH would NEVER be this logical...

 

[Lt Disher]

As per usual, very few. They read the post subject, and jump to conclusions. Sadly typical of the under 30's crowd...since most won't/can't read anything longer than an abbreviated text message anymore.

How do you have any idea what age the people are who read or did not read the article?

 

[KAB]

How do you have any idea what age the people are who read or did not read the article?

It's my gift...or, just common sense that you attain at my age, and with the input of a wife who teaches at a University.

 

[DodgerKing]

You need a little more practice.

 

[Laddyboy]

(I posted this over at Claude's board) While I'm sure this would NOT make DISH sports subs happy, here is my take on this whole ESPN/DISH thing...

In light of the FACT that DISH IS bleeding subs every month, & NOT getting many new ones to replace those - maybe DISH just needs to concede those sports households to cable & DirecTV (which they actually HAVE for the most part!) & not only shed ALL the ESPN channels, but ALSO shed ALL those bandwidth hogging (HD) RSN's as well, which ALSO have high monthly costs. If non-sports households don't care about ESPN(s), they won't care about their RSN's, either.

Then, DISH network could take ALL that bandwidth & re-purpose it into carrying many other HD (& even SD) channels that they have never had the room for. (you DO realize that ALL those HD & SD RSN's are sucking up LOTS of CONUS bandwidth ) They would have enough bandwidth that they could carry every single HD feed of every premium channel multiplex. (like ALL 8 of the Cinemax HD feeds)

Then (& here would be the rub for DISH) LOWER ALL their base packages to reflect all those lower costs by NOT having to pay for those ESPN's & RSN's. Make DISH the destination for movie lovers AND all family-friendly programming that's out there. By lowering the price of their base packages, they could get more people to take premium channels - which BOTH DISH & those premium channels would make more $$$ on with all those added subs. They could even get more (premium) cable subs to switch to DISH, since except for FiOS & U-verse, not very many cable systems are carrying many HD premium feeds. (matter of fact, Comcast is in the process of DROPPING all the majority of those same feeds on ALL their systems)

(Only rub on the family-friendly prog - of course since Disney DOES own ESPN, DISH would probably have problems getting Disney (& all it's offshoots) AT ALL anymore...)

Now that they've made their prog more reasonable for money-strapped families, they need lower their totally RIDICULOUS pricing on additional receivers. If DirecTV can get by with $6/month for their dual-tuner DVR's, there is NO reason why DISH can't do the same. $17 for an additional 722 is asinine - that 2nd room COAX output is NOT worth an extra $7 over the $10 for a 612; it should have been a FREEBIE since day 1, since a 311 receiver is the SAME price! (same thing goes for those 222's)

Oh yea, how about getting back to the basics of selling - SATELLITE TV! Some of this other CRAP, like FREE Blockbuster, etc. is of ZERO value at the end of the day & is doing NOTHING to improve DISH's bottom line. I also really question Charlie "dabbling" in wireless - I really doubt after all is said & done, little to nothing will come of this exercise - & DISH will STILL be bleeding subs!
You do NOT see DirecTV doing all this kind of crap, but they ARE the ones getting all those new subs, no?

OK, I'll stop dreaming now - since DISH would NEVER be this logical...

I think before all is said and done in the future, the premium movie channel companies will offer their own packages via the internet, and the middlemen providers, DBS and cablecos, will be unnecessary. It may be the case that the studios themselves will offer the services and not need the consolidators. I doubt the latter simply because movies tend to come from more than one studio/production company these days to spread risk around. If the other content providers go that direction as well, there will be little need for any middlemen. If you think things are headed in that direction, it makes sense to get into the wireless business as that will be the primary delivery channel at some point in the future. You have to think ahead and I think that's what Dish is doing. The only way to deliver bandwidth in rural areas is by wireless. Well, it's not the only way, but the most economical. Wireless can even be competitive in more urban areas.

If Dish would lower my rates by $5 - $10 per month by eliminating all sports programming, I would be very happy. I haven't watched any for the past 10 years as salaries and the cost to attend live became ridiculous. I don't understand why any of the sports junkies are even at E* to start with since D* has been the sports provider of choice for many years.

 

[stardust3]

It's my gift...or, just common sense that you attain at my age, and with the input of a wife who teaches at a University.

Many old people tend to think this way. Responding to a thread without reading the article is irrelevant of someones age. Not everyone reveres dish the same as you do. Many sports fans are simply stating their opinions & if dish were wise and smart and had any common sense they attained at their age as a business they would sure listen to the warning signs.

 

[mike123abc]

I have no doubt that if Dish dropped ESPN they would lose a lot of subs. A very large number of subs. The only question would be is if they could lower their price enough to attract enough non sports fans to make up for the lost ESPN fans.

Essentially Dish Family is a stripped down no sports package.