Dish and surge protector question

[doctorwizz]

You don't want the MOV's to blow in the UPS when a surge event occurs. When they blow your UPS is gone. It has happened to me.
That is why you plug a UPS into a surge supressor like the Belkin linked above.

 

[Smwoodward]

Plug your UPS's into one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006BBAB/?tag=satell01-20

Get one for your fridge, washing machine, garage door opener, microwave, ect. Cheap protection.

But what is it protection from? Modern power supplies have the necessary components to handle minor spikes or surges in the power line without the needed protectors. While yes there are conditions that a surge protector could help with and the internal power supply can't cope with, they usually happen very rare. Personally, if you feel the need to put a surge protector on every appliance in your house, have an electrician install a while home surge protector. they are fairly inexpensive running around $100-150 plus the price of the electrician's labor. If you are buying 5+ $30 surge protectors, I would look into having that done over having even small surge protectors at every outlet. The one at your breaker box will do a better job.

 

[doctorwizz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_spike

 

[harshness]

The problem is that the Barrol connectors in the surge strip are not rated for 2.2 ghz

While this may be a concern, the real reason had to do with the fact that conventional surge supressors typically include circuitry that will kill DISHComm (powerline networking).

 

[harshness]

Get one for your fridge, washing machine, garage door opener, microwave, ect. Cheap protection.

You get no more than you pay for.

Real surge suppressors use gas discharge tubes in combination with MOVs. MOVs alone will arc when slammed with much more than a 200 volts. Suppressors under $100 typically don't do anything at all to protect from lightning (and even the more expensive ones aren't going to take a close hit).

The techs are not wrong. DISH wants the ViP series equipment exposed so it can connect all the receivers together to provide whole-home caller ID and whatever Internet functionality that a particular STB has.

 

[navychop]

I'd love to know how many, if any, customers got a payout from a surge protector company.

If you want a NICE surge protector, get a Brick Wall. Getting an UPS is a good idea. If you have a few hundred laying around, get a combined UPS/surge/line conditioner.

Not all UPS units feed full time from the battery. In fact, most don't. So you usually get unfiltered line power, with all its flaws. When a threshold is reached, the battery kicks in. There will be a fraction of a second of no power during the switch. Sometimes some equipment doesn't like that.

 

[Smwoodward]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_spike

That's the thing, surge protectors do not do much more than the circuitry in modern power supplies already do. Modern voltage regulators in power supplies can handle the spikes and surges fairly well as they are. That is why there are such large capacitors in the power supplies. The spikes and surges that power supplies can't handle a surge protector provides little over that. It's the brown outs that power supplies can't handle properly.

 

[doctorwizz]

You missed the point

 

[rjruby]

The electric utility I worked for before I retired installed a whole-house surge protector on my meter base as part of a pilot project years ago. Never had a problem. I don't why they never proceeded with offering it to customers. Could be the liability issues for damages.

A friend of mine had lightning strike a tree in his back yard and it traveled through the ground to his house where it apparently reaped havoc with the grounding in his house. It blew out quite a few appliances and electronic devices.

 

[Smwoodward]

You missed the point

My point is that buying a $40 surge protector adds no more protection to the system than just plugging it directly into the wall. There is no point in buying expensive surge protectors because they will not protect much more than what is already built into the electronics. Your money would be better spent on a whole home surge protector at your box. This will provide better protection, but it still won't protect as much as people think they will.

 

[bcbarlow7737]

As others have said the barrel connectors on surge protectors are not rated to 2.2GHz that Dish receivers use definitely not 3Ghz that the hopper uses. Also the only reason not to plug a Dish receivers power into a surge protector is if your using a homeplug networking adapter on VIP equipment. Otherwise plug everything into a surge protector.

 

[jimdandyvi]

My media equipment is first protected by a whole house surge protector. Then all power is run through an isolation transformer in the cabinet. The TV is plugged directly into the transformer but the receiver, SlingBox and external hard drive are plugged into a UPS. The DVD player and wireless router are plugged into the outlets on the UPS that just protect from surges. The transformer helps stabilize the swings in voltage and in the case of a surge give the surge protectors slightly longer to react.

The UPS is large enough to keep the VIP211 powered up for enough time so if I am watching TV when the power goes out, I can start my generator and get the TV on again. I then can skip back to the point in the show where the power went off so I don't miss anything. Waiting for a receiver to reboot after an outage or a glitch is a real pain if you are right in the middle of a show. The $59 - $79 it costs for a UPS is well worth it.

Power is bad where I live for both quality and reliability so maximum protection is warranted.

 

[doctorwizz]

My point is that buying a $40 surge protector adds no more protection to the system than just plugging it directly into the wall. There is no point in buying expensive surge protectors because they will not protect much more than what is already built into the electronics. Your money would be better spent on a whole home surge protector at your box. This will provide better protection, but it still won't protect as much as people think they will.

That is wrong. You should never plug electronics directly into an outlet if possible.

I had a surge in December that blew 2 Tripp Lite Isobars, and 2 cheapo six outlet direct plugin. Everything that was plugged into those are still working. Because they did their job. The MOV's burned in the surge protectors instead of my electronics frying. A refridgerator, which was on the same circuit, had a control module fry. I am sure that module would not have fried if it was a surge protector on the outlet.

 

[Tony S]

I have been using the same Newpoint Panamax DBS500 surge suppressor ever since I started with Dish over 16 years ago. I have used it with models 4000, 501, 622, 722, and 722K receivers and never have had any problem with it attenuating the signal from the dish.

When the installers were here to install the various receivers (the ones that dish would not let me install myself) every one of them told me they had to remove the surge suppressor or the satellite dish would not work. I told them that I already knew it worked and to leave the suppressors in place. As I said, I never had any problem with them. As long as you use surge supressors that can pass the bandwidth needed, there should not be a problem.

 

[Smwoodward]

That is wrong. You should never plug electronics directly into an outlet if possible.

I had a surge in December that blew 2 Tripp Lite Isobars, and 2 cheapo six outlet direct plugin. Everything that was plugged into those are still working. Because they did their job. The MOV's burned in the surge protectors instead of my electronics frying. A refridgerator, which was on the same circuit, had a control module fry. I am sure that module would not have fried if it was a surge protector on the outlet.

I believe that I misspoke, it was too early this morning. I meant that there is no need in buying a $40 surge protector verses a $10 surge protector. Small spikes can and will be caught on the surge protector. NO surge protector will protect a large spike or surge and they defiantly won't protect against a lightning strike near the home. The ones with a $$$$$$$ warranty has so much fine print in the warranty that you will never collect with them.

I still feel that it is better to have a surge suppressor at the box vs having one at every outlet.

 

[westom]

I still feel that it is better to have a surge suppressor at the box vs having one at every outlet.

An adjacent protector or UPS only claims to protect from a type of surge made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. Destructive surges cannot be blocked or absorb inside a building. Either a potentially destructive surge is connected to earth BEFORE entering the building (ie a suppressor at the box). Or it goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances.

National Electrical code says the dish must be earthed. And its coax must also enter at the service entrance where it connects low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to an earth ground used by AC electric and telephone. That is required for human safety. Transistor safety means code must be met AND exceeded. Again, either a surge connects as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. Or that surge will go hunting destructively inside.

Same applies to AC electric wires. A surge (ie lightning striking far down the street) either connects harmlessly to earth BEFORE entering. Or it goes hunting destructively inside. Informed homeowners earth a 'whole house' protector rated at least 50,000 amps. Because a direct lightning strike (ie 20,000 amps) must not even damage the protector.

Protection from destructive surges (ie lightning) has been routine for over 100 years. However, many don't learn well proven science. Many, instead, are educated by advertising. Therefore spend significantly more money for protectors that do not even claim to protect from destructive surges. Or spend more for a UPS that claims less protection.

A 'whole house' protector is required to even protect a power strip and UPS from surge damage. But again, that 'whole house' protector is not doing the protection. Protection is always defined by its earthing electrodes.

Either a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Or it makes subjective claims about protecting from surges that do no damage. Earthing is not only required by code for human safety. Earthing and a 'whole house' protector are essential for protecting everything including the satellite system.

 

[navychop]

This is what I have on my house. 3500 Joules - 175,000 Amps - $75,000 warranty. I'm not impressed. I still use line conditioners, UPS units and surge suppressors throughout the house. I notice the new box says $5,000 instead of $75,000. CHSPULTRA

 

[Mike_H]

Plug in surge protection simply doesn't work against lightning strikes, regardless of the insurance some companies claim to provide. As was mentioned, you must shunt the voltage to ground before it enters the premises. Coax from the dish is required to be earth grounded before it enters the building. A whole house surge protector installed at the panel is the only true surge suppressor as it is tied to the earthing for the electrical service.

 

[harshness]

A whole house surge protector installed at the panel is the only true surge suppressor as it is tied to the earthing for the electrical service.

The term "panel" is insufficient here. The surge protector should be installed in the service entrance. If the service entrance happens to have a breaker panel on the other side, then they are one-and-the-same.

As has been clearly stated, the voltage must be shunted before it gets into the home.

MOVs are like fuses in a way. If they do their job, they're probably not nearly as effective as they were when new. The danger is that you never really know when they are blown because they're designed to drain extra voltage, not conduct acceptable voltage. The supressor will continue to provide power even if the MOVs are burned to a crisp.

The disadvantage of a straight MOV system is that the output voltage goes to zero when it engages (at least until the MOV burns).

 

[doctorwizz]

"The supressor will continue to provide power even if the MOVs are burned to a crisp."

Not all supressors continue to power the outlets when the MOV's burn. Both my Tripp Lite Isobars did not provide when the MOV's burned after a surge event. The "Protection Present" light was off and the "Line OK" light was still on which meant the source outlet still had power. I opened one to verify what had burned inside. Big MOV's burnt. I think it was only one of the three that burned.
Both of the direct plugin 6 outlet still provided power after burning. Just the "Protected" red light went off. I opened both of those to see the burn MOV's too. They were small MOV's.