I agree. But, you have to admit. Without charlie and directv. Good ole cband would still be going strong. Unless of course a company like Voom came along.
Dish HD vs Disney (DISH sort of won...)
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I agree. But, you have to admit. Without charlie and directv. Good ole cband would still be going strong. Unless of course a company like Voom came along.
And it contiues
It seems to be that you have to have a B session about Charlie every chance you get(that's the agenda I'm referring to). Yes he can do wrong: hence what happened with VOOM. Some accuse me of being a fanboy but I'm not. As I said I'm going to be setting up a C/Ku system for FTA. There are things that I can get there & no where else. Thing is it isn't for subscription programming. There is no way that C band can compete w/ DBS as it can only record off a single sat at a time where as the "cable" programming is across many different sats. I loved C/Ku band but had to see the hand writing on the wall. It's primarily for commercial use or hobbyist now not for general home use. Now back to part of the topic of the thread. I hope Charlie holds out on Disney so that no one has to pay twice for programming that is the same but a different resolution. It's something that has been seen in the broadcast industry where providers want more for the HD than the SD. That's a load.
I have no agenda here. People need to know there is still in option in C band if they want to use it for subscription. NPS put out so much bad press this year its pathetic. I think C band and pizza can co-exist. I have both, not Dish but DirecTV for pizza. I don't agree with Charlie Ergans hidden agenda and policies. The games that Charlie plays with his subscribers and programmers will backfire on him as it has this past few months, just look at his latest subscriber numbers and then look at DirecTV.
I too enjoy C band as a hobby with DVB etc, thats why I didn't abandon it and keep my system running great. Subscription options are still there for me with the 4DTV too.
Have a good Turkey day all
It seems to be that you have to have a B session about Charlie every chance you get(that's the agenda I'm referring to). Yes he can do wrong: hence what happened with VOOM. Some accuse me of being a fanboy but I'm not. As I said I'm going to be setting up a C/Ku system for FTA. There are things that I can get there & no where else. Thing is it isn't for subscription programming. There is no way that C band can compete w/ DBS as it can only record off a single sat at a time where as the "cable" programming is across many different sats. I loved C/Ku band but had to see the hand writing on the wall. It's primarily for commercial use or hobbyist now not for general home use. Now back to part of the topic of the thread. I hope Charlie holds out on Disney so that no one has to pay twice for programming that is the same but a different resolution. It's something that has been seen in the broadcast industry where providers want more for the HD than the SD. That's a load.
I agree. But, you have to admit. Without charlie and directv. Good ole cband would still be going strong. Unless of course a company like Voom came along.
That's a fact. But... if it weren't for digital cameras then film would still be selling good and if it weren't for DVD's then VCR's would... you get my point.
Disney just wants to recoup some of their uplinking cost as they now have to rent c-band transponders for both HD and SD feeds. Heaven forbid they absorb some of the cost associated with having to provide both formats in order to not alienate any of there customers.
I wonder when they will finally take the analog TP's down?
Disney just wants to recoup some of their uplinking cost as they now have to rent c-band transponders for both HD and SD feeds. Heaven forbid they absorb some of the cost associated with having to provide both formats in order to not alienate any of there customers.
You mean someone is still uplinking ANALOG.
Besides Disney most likely mux's the HD & SD on one tp. You mean someone is still uplinking ANALOG.
Yes, ESPN on Galaxy 5 now known as Galaxy 14. Remember Channel 9 and 14.
Besides Disney most likely mux's the HD & SD on one tp.
The Disney channel itself uses 2 transponders for SD and one transponder for HD these are all digital. The distro feeds have a very good picture, I've seen them. They look nothing like the original on the small dish services.
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Thats's all your opinion and most know what opinions are like.
Yea, especially when your 'opinion' is based on crap. When your opinions are based on facts they are a lot more credible.
Just curious, why did you name yourself TVROPRO? What profession involving TVRO is your background?
Well if you knew me in person you could find out allot. I've been involved with TVRO installs & troubleshooting since the early 80's commercial and consumer. I got my start the 70's in MATV. It just ticks me off what has happened to c band because of the bad players. Progress maybe but lets face it, it's all crap these days.
The players really have had little to do with it. No one now a days would pay $2000 to $3000 for a dish system to buy programming for one tuner at a time when they can now get satellite TV for up to 6 different tuners with HD and DVR installed for free with monthly packages that are competitive with cable. I'd love to go back in time and be able to make the kind of money we made installing and servicing C Band. It was a great business and if there were still a market for C Band then there would be companies still supplying the programming and materials. Our only C Band customers any more are commercial and are fewer and farther between with the advent of fiber and other transport technologies. The reason why 4DTV and consumer C Band is disappearing is because the customers have disappeared over the years and it's no longer a business that can be sustained. It's a shame, but that's the way it is.
One of the major reason's I got out of the biz. Commercial just wasn't paying the bills & my financier died so my credit line went bye bye.
I've already found that they have at least 3 muxs on different sats. G-14 & AMC-18.
Disney has the east SD feed on G-14, west on G-12, HD on G-14 and Disney XD SD on G-18. These are all the masters. ABC Family is also in the first 2 above with Disney. Soapnet E &W are in the SD XD mux also. Disney, ABC Family and Disney XD HD versions in the HD mux on G-14. If you have the right equipment to receive them at home when ITC or access at a jobsite. Check out the master picture quality you'll will be blown away. Disney does their distro feed right and gives tons of bandwidth to those. Once the second handers (pizza and cable) get there hands on them they butcher them with excessive compression. Dish crams more in there muxes then Direct does so Direct has the slight edge. But can no way compete with the original. Charlie got his decoder turned off on the G-14 HD mux for the non payment thing.
IMHO I think the programmers should get rid of the SD feeds and let the providers downconvert for SD, but there are too many that rely on the SD feeds out there. Since Disney spends more money because of the extra transponder space they should be compensated to pay that bill. This is where Charlie and Disney are at a stalemate.
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That's the crux of the whole thing. Disney shouldn't get extra because there is little need for a company (as large as the MVPD's like E*, D* & TWC etc) to have to take both feeds anymore. Take just the HD and screw the SD feeds now a days. It's the same material just a different rez.
Ya 720p vs 480i in it's native master form, not the byproduct sent out to your STB though. It has to do with programmers and the packages they sell. They sell a SD pkg that you probably have to take or you cant get the HD. Its the same as wanting that high tier channel in a low tier pack. The program providers dictate what goes where and force you to take the low tier pack just to get the high tier add on's. You just can't buy the high tier stuff by itself except on c band. It's a vicious greedy circle.
Getting back to rez if they didn't butcher the SD feed (left as is on the master) in the first place it can get very close to HD they sell the consumer. Since its butchered so much they have to provide the HD butchered version to get the clarity the SD master provides unbutchered. And of course charge you more.
Its called business as usual, attach everything to the little guys wallet. Corporate Greed in America.
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Ya 720p vs 480i in it's native master form, not the byproduct sent out to your STB though. It has to do with programmers and the packages they sell. They sell a SD pkg that you probably have to take or you cant get the HD. Its the same as wanting that high tier channel in a low tier pack. The program providers dictate what goes where and force you to take the low tier pack just to get the high tier add on's. You just can't buy the high tier stuff by itself except on c band. It's a vicious greedy circle.
Getting back to rez if they didn't butcher the SD feed (left as is on the master) in the first place it can get very close to HD they sell the consumer. Since its butchered so much they have to provide the HD butchered version to get the clarity the SD master provides unbutchered. And of course charge you more.
Its called business as usual, attach everything to the little guys wallet. Corporate Greed in America.
Your missing the whole point Disney doesn't really need to be continuing the SD feed anymore. Everyone could take the HD fee and downconvert it for SD. I can't agree with you about the untouched SD feed being almost as good as an HD version on E* or D*. Having been in the industry I've watched the feeds direct and the MPEG2 SD feed just doesn't cut it in comparison. A 640 X 480 i at 6 Mb at max is still not going to compare to a 1280 X 720 p at 7 to 7.5 Mb MPEG 4 (bandwidth starved so to speak) picture using a varibit encoder/decoder setup. The later is still going to look much better. The MPEG 4 is going to make allot of difference, that's roughly the equivalent of to MPEG 2 AT 10.5 Mb.
What I'm speaking of is the SD masters (Disney, G-14 transponder 11) has no digital artifacts (macroblocking, or mosquito noise) the sharpness is also so much better than a pizza SD version. It approaches the sharpness of HD lite without artifacts. This is what I am referring too. I have seen the master on my HDTV many times and it is beautiful. Very close to HD. Face facts Dish & Direct don't have the bandwidth to provide that quality. I also have been reading in the technical forums here that Dish just cut their HD bitrate again and its around 5 MB or less without statmux added. Thats really pushing the limit. If statmux gets overloaded and bitstarves, artifact city. I also hear Mpeg 4 looks worse when pushed to the limit then Mpeg 2. But I guess they expect everyone to accept crappy pictures and pass it off as something great.
I doubt you will be able to have Disney sell their HD feed only until they finally migrate to HD only. They can command what they want to charge since it is their product.
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Can you give a source for this info? Both MPEG 2 or 4 looks like crap when it breaks down. Don't know how one compares 2 kinds of crap to figure out which looks worse? I've seen some mircoblocking lately but it's be OTA problem not sat so far. W/ the change of the season atmospherics is most likely the cause.
It's very easy to see that Dish isn't providing the best quality. Just by looking at the number of channels per transponder. 6 would be the max. per tp. if they cared. But, some of the Tp's are up to eight channels. Maybe nine?
