T-Mobile just went that route. All of their plans are no contract now and the phones are $x down, $y per month for 24 months. Even though you are not in a contract, you are still on the hook for the remainder of your 24 months of equipment payments. They also got rid of many of the tiered plan options, and the prices are not any lower, actually higher now when you factor in your phone monthly payment. Is that better?
DISH says Give Customers What They Want
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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The only way to change it starts with the consumer. Enough of them need to just stop paying for it to force the businesses to change their model. I'm slowly doing my part...grandfathered wireless family plan for $50/month (2 lines), don't spend more than $80 on TV, $50 on broadband internet. I could afford much more, but don't want to.
Well, if we were to take it as a given that you're right- that Dish tries to screw the customer and the customer tries to screw Dish- I'm still usually (Extreme cases aside) going to take the customer's side. If Dish gets screwed on a few customers, they're still filthy rich and their profit margins still look pretty nice. If a customer gets screwed by Dish, it can really impact that customer's standard of living.
The thing about Henry Ford was that he paid his workers significantly more than his competitors did, a real living wage, even though it arguably hurt his bottom line. People asked him why he did it and said "If no one pays their workers a good wage, who's going to buy my cars?". In a world where businesses increasingly pay employees the lowest possible salary they can get away with, sometimes below poverty wages (Wal-Mart was known at one point to hand out applications for food stamps and government medical assistance to new employees because Wal-Mart didn't pay enough and provide enough benefits for people to live decent lives without help), people are going to start to struggle to pay for products and services. So, companies are going to have to produce products and sell services more inexpensively if they want to get the average person on board with them- and they're going to be dealing with a lot of desperate folks at or around the poverty line who, yeah, will negotiate for every little advantage they can. Ultimately, it's a situation that the corporations themselves create.
Also, I noticed that you harken back to an earlier time when the customer didn't negotiate, but of course the earliest form of economics was trade and barter. I don't see a problem with customers doing a little haggling. No one is forcing companies to provide any discounts, they do it when they think it's in their economic best interests. And you can bet Dish wants to haggle when ESPN tells them what their channels are going to cost Dish, and Dish does haggle, sometimes to extreme points that hurt the consumer.
Hard to do that if Dish or Directv or, in some places and situations now, the cable company, wants to make you pay several hundred dollars as an ETF.
In a way you're correct, but if customers can now only afford the cheapest product and don't have available credit, they sometimes have to buy it, because the alternative is doing without something that adds value to their lives. I know sometimes the stuff I buy is made poorly and will break down in a few years, and I might be better off buying something more expensive that last for ten or twenty years, in the long run, but if I can barely afford the poorly made thing and have to scrimp and sacrifice for that, and no one will extend me credit, I'm forced into a cycle of replacing poorly made things with more poorly made things.
I'm thinking more a broad spectrum service that offers a bunch of channels, and isn't necessarily publicly funded. People can start non-profits with private funds that subsist on fees voluntarily paid to them by users of services they provide.
I agree with you. I think if providers had to simply have one regular price without a new customer discount, prices would actually probably meet somewhere in between. Instead of offering dirt cheap prices to hook new customers, and then sticking it to the long-term ones because they figure they've got them hooked already or they'll stick around through inertia, they'd have to strike a balance and come up with one price that is both attractive enough to attract new customers and can generate some profit.
Also, I think if they didn't do the whole free equipment thing, they'd have to cut the price of the equipment also. Instead of giving it to some folks for free and sticking the low-credit customers with really big charges or inferior service, they'd have to pick one price they felt they could advertise and sell at. Maybe they'd take a loss on equipment like Amazon sometimes does, to get people to subscribe to their services and such long-term.
I don't like the idea of having two tiers of customers, one that get all the goodies, and the other tier that pays through the nose, especially when it's done in a backwards way like folks with bad or unestablished credit, who are more likely to be poor, are the ones getting the shaft. It's shifting the burden to those least able to pay, and it should stop.
I actually think it is. But the best model in the cell phone market is actually the straight pre-paid carriers, apart from the smaller networks, lousier service, and lesser phones- but I mean just in terms of sheer how you pay for stuff. You buy a phone straight out and can quit at any time, paying month to month, with no obligation. They've got to price the phones to move because they know people are paying all at once, and they've got to price the service inexpensively, because they know people can switch or take a month off at any time (Though the purchase price of the existing phone that can only work on one carrier does provide an incentive not to hop around too much, because you don't want to be buying new phones constantly). Even better would be the European cell model where you buy one cell phone and actually swap out SIM cards and have it operate on any network- meaning every cell service provider competes month to month to be your carrier of choice on your existing phone.
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For $5 a month, presumably at a time in your life when $5 a month means something, especially if it's paid for nothing. Then, you still have to pay the full EFT or fulfill the full programming agreement later, whether things improve for you economically or not.
You know how some people deal with life being tough? Letting off some steam and complaining about some of the factors that contribute to it being tough.
Presumably, the practices of Dish, Directv, the cable company, etc., are legal, but that doesn't mean we have to all shut up and not criticize them. First amendment means we get to criticize whomever we want and not just shut up and take it (up the rear-end).
Perhaps what they need to do is give people an additional incentive at the end of their contract. That would help their business. Either that or give people a promotion if they want to enter another 24 month agreement. By raising the equipment fees that gives Dish more money to do something like this. By adding more fees they have more discounts that they can give you. If they also give those that remain with the service a special ongoing promotion if they stay with the company but would never get back if they leave and come back to get another promotion.
They could also have increasing incentive as time goes on then that may help or people stay as well. Perhaps a combination of both. They need to do something about customers switching back and forth between providers because that cost them all money having to get the installers back out constantly. They could instead use that money to give the ongoing promotion. Perhaps an "allowance" based upon the time you have spent with the company that can be used towards monthly credits on your bill and equipment upgrades that is earned each month that you stay on with them.
They should also look at people paying for their own equipment and give them some sort of incentive for doing so.
They could also have increasing incentive as time goes on then that may help or people stay as well. Perhaps a combination of both. They need to do something about customers switching back and forth between providers because that cost them all money having to get the installers back out constantly. They could instead use that money to give the ongoing promotion. Perhaps an "allowance" based upon the time you have spent with the company that can be used towards monthly credits on your bill and equipment upgrades that is earned each month that you stay on with them.
They should also look at people paying for their own equipment and give them some sort of incentive for doing so.
I just don't understand how having a negative attitude toward the majority of your customers leads to a successful business.
As a paying customer I expect Dish to provide a reliable service, a wide range of programming packages and prices, and refrain from pumping up their profit margin using unreasonable hardware and feature fees. For the most part they do well. What follows is my personal evaluation of these factors: When properly installed, Dish excels at reliability. Package selection is good/adequate. Fees, have become excessive of late.
As a paying customer I expect Dish to provide a reliable service, a wide range of programming packages and prices, and refrain from pumping up their profit margin using unreasonable hardware and feature fees. For the most part they do well. What follows is my personal evaluation of these factors: When properly installed, Dish excels at reliability. Package selection is good/adequate. Fees, have become excessive of late.
DISH doesn't like to give out promotions. Whether you've been committed for the last two years or not.
It helps you watch out for predatory customers (leeches), but in itself it probably doesn't. A negative attitude doesn't solve any more business problems than wishful thinking. It's just often much more realistic and the likelihood of negative outcomes are more plausible.
I use prepaid everything. We use virgin mobile (sprint) 4G WiMAX phones.
2 lines at 45.00 per month.
I know there is a stereotype about prepaid. I had a lady at radioshack ask me if I had bad credit. I have excellent credit actually.
I chose dish network as a pay tv provider because of two reasons. C band subscription services have a bleak future.
Dish offers "flex tv" prepaid service. If it had not been for the prepaid option I would have never subbed to a pizza dish.
I am happy with dish actually.
I am not happy enough to sign a 24 month iron clad contract that is written completely in their favor with a "we can change our policies when we want to what we want and your still stuck".
At&t taught me a valuable lesson on contracts with wireless companies.
I do prepaid everything or I don't play.
2 lines at 45.00 per month.
I know there is a stereotype about prepaid. I had a lady at radioshack ask me if I had bad credit. I have excellent credit actually.
I chose dish network as a pay tv provider because of two reasons. C band subscription services have a bleak future.
Dish offers "flex tv" prepaid service. If it had not been for the prepaid option I would have never subbed to a pizza dish.
I am happy with dish actually.
I am not happy enough to sign a 24 month iron clad contract that is written completely in their favor with a "we can change our policies when we want to what we want and your still stuck".
At&t taught me a valuable lesson on contracts with wireless companies.
I do prepaid everything or I don't play.
I wish they would start paying their installers what they are worth and stop taking money back and wish they would own up to fraudulent Large Contract/HSP companies stealing money from their employees.
Think he is saying they are not paying enough for the installs. I am sure installers are not getting rich.
You still have to treat customers the way you always have, with a smile and making them feel like they're important. This doesn't mean we actually feel that way about all customers. We still have some awesome customers and I love to help them, they understand what it's like and appreciate what we do for them. These customers are also the ones that pay more and wait longer for things to be done because they are nice. The bad customers do nothing but complain and are never happy. They get things done first and generally pay less because we do not want them to remain unhappy.
Too me this is wrong. The good customers should be treated better and save money, not the a-holes. I think a lot of this has to do with how society is. I get Consumer Reports magazine and they always tells customers to bicker for a lower price and demand more from a business but the industry is struggling and businesses will give you want you want just to make a sale. Customers are actually being taught to be jerks so they can get the best deal. Some people don't even need to save the money they just enjoy bickering and getting a deal. It's like a game to them and it sickens me. I guess I just don't like seeing people taking advantage of others and having no regard for anyone but themselves. I shouldn't judge though, I have been guilty myself from time to time.
For $5 a month, presumably at a time in your life when $5 a month means something, especially if it's paid for nothing. Then, you still have to pay the full EFT or fulfill the full programming agreement later, whether things improve for you economically or not.
You know how some people deal with life being tough? Letting off some steam and complaining about some of the factors that contribute to it being tough.
a person enters into the 24-month commitment because they want to take advantage of an incentive. what ever happens to that person does not excuse them from their commitment (i.e. home mortgage). the person needs to find the best way to deal with their situation if something happens.
instead of complaining, customer like this should just go with the no contract option.....but they won't be able to get promotional pricing and that is probably going to make them complain.
Dish is not struggling, they are making a billion dollars in profits a year, and are always trying to buy giant companies like Sprint. Comcast makes enough that they bought NBC within the last few years and has a continuing line of income well into the future with their Internet service even if paid television winds up declining and hurting their original business model. I don't know what Directv's financials look like, but I'm guessing we'd all enjoy being their primary shareholder, financially speaking.
The stock market is actually at an all time high. It's people who are struggling- with high unemployment, low wages, a lack of good benefits, etc.. That seems to, from all reports, include some Dish employees and contractors, but that's because of Dish's policies- Dish could afford to pay and treat them better, and doesn't. It's not the customer's fault.
I'm below the poverty line, if I can get a good deal on a service that I need or even that I want that makes my life a little less miserable, and it'll diminish the profit margins of some big corporation somewhere just a tad, I don't feel guilty. They probably aren't even losing money on me in the aggregate when you consider the majority of the time when I'm stuck paying full price- if they were losing money on me over all, they'd eventually just tell me to go elsewhere (In fact, Comast did decline to give me a break on their television after five years paying full price because I'd also had a discount for the previous six months- and I promptly cancelled. I told them to cancel service the next day. I rarely bluff.). In fact, I feel like they should be doing more for customers in tough situations, or for those in normal situations, for that matter. I don't know where it's written that corporations have the right to makes hundreds of millions or billions a year.
In fact, I don't feel a corporation has any rights- you've got to a human being to have rights (or at least an animal). But even if I did believe corporations should have rights, which I don't, I don't think there's any problem with a customer playing corporations off each other and haggling to get the best deal. It's what corporations do with the other corporations they deal with all the time (i.e. Dish, Direct, and cable negotiating with ABC/Disney stations or whatever). No one says a corporation has to make special offers to people to prevent churn, they do it because they feel it's a good business decision. Isn't one of the things people go to business school learn is how to bargain and negotiate? I think it's good that the customer has at least enough leverage to leave and go to the other guys or offer to stay at a reduced rate. I mean, it's bad enough that these companies, which are often monopolies or near monopolies have price hikes that well exceed the price of inflation and contracts with terms that are favorable to them that customers can't negotiate, and so on and so forth. I don't see a problem with a customer calling up and saying "Look, I can't afford this service anymore, I need $5 or $10 off or I'm going to have to discontinue it or take a better financial offer from a different provider.".
I've never owned a home, so I don't know a ton about home mortgages. In the event of not being able to pay a home mortgage, though, aren't you allowed to call the bank and try to get them to refinance it or make some sort of deal with you if they are willing? And, if all else fails, can't you walk away from the house and let the bank repossess it? People try to walk away from their dish or phone contracts all the time, and probably would be willing to mail the Dish or the phone back, but the companies won't play ball.
The problem is that the no-contract option with Dish is prohibitively expensive- a ton of high equipment fees. And the equipment can only be used for Dish. So it's not like you can justify the cost of the equipment by saying "Hey, at least I have the flexibility to quit Dish and aim this dish at Directv's satellites, and there's that free satellite with limited programming if push comes to shove...", it's equipment that only works with one company's services. I think a no-contract option would be much more appealing if the equipment could be used in a variety of different ways. Like, if I buy a computer, it doesn't tie me to Comcast Internet- I could use it with any Internet service provider available in my area, I could even take it to the library or McDonalds and use their free wifi, or even use it without Internet access to listen to digital music I already have, do word processing, play some games that don't require the Internet, or whatever. Paying for something that requires the use of a particular service from a particular company to do anything with it seems a bit odd to me.
But, you know, if they'd make their prices more reasonable, I'll bet even their single-use no-contract equipment would be more appealing. I bought a phone off contract from a prepaid no-contract provider at one point. They knew to reach my market, though, they'd have to bring their prices down to be about what other providers sell phones for on-contract- the phone just doesn't have as good of specs as the subsidized ones on contract carriers. It was a year or two behind what you'd expect from the on-contract folks in some regards. Of course, even with a phone tied to one carrier, you could at least use it as a very small wifi-only Internet tablet and maybe even do voice-and-text-over-wifi with special apps (Don't know how that last part works, but I hear it's possible, you might have to pay for it) at your home or whereever wifi is available if you quit the service. I don't know what you'd do with an owned dish if you left the service other than try to sell the thing.
But, anyway, I think they'd make Dish equipment cheaper if didn't do contracts and subsidies. They'd have to. It might mean reducing their profit margins or making slightly less advanced equipment, but it'd be the only way they could stay competitive with cable and Directv where people didn't necessarily have to buy equipment.
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So it’s okay to take advantage of something so long as whoever you screw over can afford it. And you wonder why DISH is so paranoid about how it does EVERYTHING? And for the record, that CSR you're taking advantage of who according to your above isn't paid that well (which is true), will probably lose their job eventually for cutting breaks like you're asking. If you don't pay the money, DISH will find the dollars somewhere else (usually employee pay).
I try to avoid personal attacks in written conversation, but you’re making it really difficult. Here, I question where your moral compass is pointing. Just because your circumstances aren’t ideal is never a good reason to “take” (not to be confused with being gifted) something to make your life easier. This is the misery deserves company attitude that we’re calling “entitlement” in this thread.
Unless you’re an accountant at DISH, you have no way to know whether they are or aren’t losing money on you. You don’t know how much they invest in you to sign you up to begin with, and you don’t know how much money they spend to keep you. So adding salt to the wound “probably” matters.
They can help you if they wish, but as I learned during 2009-2011, the financial industry squeezes blood from those with money, it’s the people who can’t afford things that tend to get a break. I paid all my bills, etc; but somehow I didn’t qualify for interest rate reductions that only people who missed payments get. Any dollar you don't pay, someone else has to; that’s how this game works. But I’m guessing from the above, you’re probably okay with that…
It’s prohibitively expensive because you’re choosing an option that isn’t as financially beneficial to DISH, AND they still have to invest expense in acquiring you to begin with. You wouldn’t consider the purchase option at all unless there was something that made it attractive. Making it attractive to people costs money. Much like a cell phone, if you want to skate by without a contract, you pay more.
DISH claims to be leader in many things, but historically they’re a step behind (other than technology) the rest of the industry. They added DVR fees because everyone else did, they change billing because everyone else is, and they get in disputes because everyone else does too. The only thing DISH is generally cutting edge on is their tech, and that costs. If you aren’t willing to pay more, don’t expect the business you’re working with to subsidize that difference. THAT is entitlement, and it’s outside the buying goods for currency good old business used to run on.
Someone mentioned Henry Ford used to pay more so his employees could buy his product; they forgot to mention that did no good to any of his other customers. Having money doesn’t make someone evil or more acceptable to take advantage of. Not having money doesn’t make someone more worthy of pity either. It’s what they DO under those circumstances that they should be judged by. Now I probably make a little more than you if you’re at the poverty line, so please don’t put my car up on bricks and take the tires. I know it’s probably okay to you because I make more, but I’d really appreciate it.
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this is not a political forum, so your ad-hominem would be better suited elsewhere. if you are "below the poverty line", satellite tv should not be one of your priorities.
most of us agree with this- if you buy and support your own equipment.
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No installers are not getting paid enough and there are so many picky specs on an install these days and anal inspectors that you often times get "charged back" for the work you did from something as picky as a drip loop not fully 6" around or a connector found loose from many times the customer messing with things or the customer gets tv off channel right after you leave and calls dish sets up a trouble call which hurts your pay another way...etc etc
I know your right. I am an HVAC tech. I couldn't tell you hoe many installs I have do.e where the customer will get on eBay and order refrigerant to "charge the unit themselves" to make the ac colder or the do it yourselfers who reconfigure the ductwork or thermostat wiring and damage equipment and blame me.
My favorite is the bogus damage claims involving parts of the home no where near any art of the system I installed (Most recent: "my roof is leaking now. Fix it" / "But Sir, your dish is on a pole & all the wiring is on the lowest level of your house...")
