DPP Multiswitch Location

TonyT@DISH Network

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 21, 2010
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Denver, CO
Well since you are not in the field, you don't know the companies QC rules. So trust me if the switch is mounted at the dish by a tech, it is an auto fail. Thus any tech rolling out to a job where the switch is mounted at the dish will have to move it. Honestly I understand why, because it looks like total crap when the switch is mounted at the dish.

I really don't think a person reading from a book or an install manual should be giving advise on installation issues. There are plenty of techs on here that know exactly what Dish QC will and will not allow.

You are correct that I am currently not in the field. QC rules have probably changed since I installed DISH Network or anything else, but then again so has the equipment. I never got gigged back in the day for protecting a switch from the elements under an eave (not to be confused with "at the dish" or "on the dish"). Of course, at the time it was more about using the least amount of cable for a clean install rather then running lines down the house and then back up. It just never made sense to do it that way and I personally think it looks worse then mounting the switch higher and running shorter leads to their destinations. The only time that ever made me nervous was covenant controlled communities where anything mounted on the back side of the house had to be below the fence line, and there could be nothing mounted on the front. I know there are still neighborhoods like that out there, at least there are here in CO and I assume we are not so different then anywhere else. I always thought that QC was looking for form and function within reason (no house wraps or spaghetti bombs). I did not know that there was a written policy regarding where the switch had to be located in order to pass a check. That information would be useful so if you can find it in writing I can add it to the library we have here.

There are always small twists to what QC gigs for, from my experience with satellite and cable. Satellite wise, customers should all have single dish solutions. That sometimes has to go by the wayside to provide service for some customers. QC might even throw a limit of two dishes at a residence max, but I have actually had to order a tech to provide a third dish to a patron of this website just to get service to 100%. Did that tech get gigged due to "going outside of the suggested norm" or did he get a pat on the back for handling a customer concern? I would hate to think I set him up to fail, but you would think he would have said no if he would get gigged for it.

I asked my question after reading the current materials I have at my disposal, rather then going off what I did way back when. I see nothing about where the switch can or cannot be mounted (simply indoors or outdoors), even when used as a grounding point so long as it meets NEC and state grounding requirements. NEC says the ground must be 10 gauge for the 820 (coax) and 14 gauge for the dish (810). From the coax ground it can be no longer then 20 feet and there is no provision for the dish. You can meet that from under some, if not all eaves, providing its not a three story house. I guess there is no explanation for why, it just isn't done. That works for me.

To Popcorn: Harshness mentioned the insertion loss and I feel that is important too. I honestly never knew it was called that, but the consideration of what it is was there in every type of system I installed, whether it was cable or satellite. If I were you and thought plans may change as to setup and number of boxes, I would keep the DPP44 and make sure that the feeds were home runs and not combining cables to make the length, if it is possible. If you have to run a barrel (which I did for my loft) make sure it is a rated barrel (they actually list 3.0GHZ on the packages at some places). I went so far as to run solid backfeeds and eliminated the diplexers in my home, something a drop ceiling basement helped to complete. It benefits me mainly because the wiring is good for any system and I can interchange between the cable internet and DISH pretty easily depending on my needs as the house changes. It has changed a couple times since I rewired and its easy to change things and keep it looking nice.
 
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harshness

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May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
While many brands of fittings will work. I belive the only one Dish uses at this point is PPC EX6XL's. That could change next week as Dish like's to change the spec so that techs have to replace fittings all the time.
When was the last time they specified a new connector?
 

harshness

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May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
If I remember was last June,but not only that, we have to use approved cable(rg6) and parts or have and automatic auto fail for that.
The reason I asked is because I can't remember a time when Both DISH Network and DIRECTV didn't accept the PPC EX6XL. I believe it was originally approved in the summer of 2005.

This is not anything like the characterization you used earlier:
technoguy said:
That could change next week as Dish like's to change the spec so that techs have to replace fittings all the time.
UPDATE: Looking at the approved equipment list, the PPC EX6XL has been approved since March 27, 2006. DIRECTV added the PPC EX6XL to the list in June of 2005.

Clearly they aren't changing the specification all the time.
 
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sca

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Feb 27, 2009
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cookieland!
tony - since it is also a qc requirement that the system be grounded at the switch (only if the switch is ul listed) or before. there is not normaly going to be a ground within 20 feet of the dish if said dish is mounted on a roof. i re-install EVERY system where i find a switch zip-tieds to the dish. this normally means none of the other qc rules were followed either.
 

Liquidforce88

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Feb 3, 2005
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The Land Of OZ
The reason I asked is because I can't remember a time when Both DISH Network and DIRECTV didn't accept the PPC EX6XL. I believe it was originally approved in the summer of 2005.

This is not anything like the characterization you used earlier:UPDATE: Looking at the approved equipment list, the PPC EX6XL has been approved since March 27, 2006. DIRECTV added the PPC EX6XL to the list in June of 2005.

Clearly they aren't changing the specification all the time.

Well since I have installed since 01. Here is what I have run into for connectors.

01 to 05 just about any connector that was a commpression fitting was ok.

Then we were only allowed to install Sterlings. Then they switched to only snap N seal. Then PCT's were the only ones allowed. Then back to snap n seal. then I left working for the RSP.

Then they started uning the fittings that Directv used for years with the blue color on the end like a snap n seal. Now they only allow PPC.

Direct is going to only snap n seals here soon. So I am sure Dish will be changing again.
 

Liquidforce88

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 3, 2005
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The Land Of OZ
Tony,

If you could see some of the things that Dish will fail a QC for now I think you would understand. There was a thread not long ago on the installer forums where a perfectly good install was failed because it was within 10' of the electric. Although the electric was below where the dish was mounted so it really had no bearing on the safety of the system. There is quite a bit of proof to show that they will make up stuff to fail a system.
 

sca

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 27, 2009
2,432
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cookieland!
well...not to mention forgetting to program 1 out of the 4 remotes.
autofail
anything type of siding besides wood - even if you go there to fix a remote and you dont move that dish to the roof...
autofail
subcontractor uses 7/8 lags to mount dish and you dont remove it and re-mount it with 'proper' flanged 1/2 lags
autofail
 

Dishman1978

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 31, 2010
3,274
90
California
PopcornNMore said:
Question: Where do professional Dish Network installers place the DPP-44 multiswitch? I wonder why the installer didn't place it near the dish in the first place.


Chances are if the tech was thinking ahead he placed tge switch low for ease of trouble shooting or adding rooms. And if its grounded from the switch, that may be the other answer. Its jyst a massive pain in my rear to mount and prep a switch on a ladder. I'd rather stand on the ground.
 

Dishman1978

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 31, 2010
3,274
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California
Liquidforce88 said:
Tony,

If you could see some of the things that Dish will fail a QC for now I think you would understand. There was a thread not long ago on the installer forums where a perfectly good install was failed because it was within 10' of the electric. Although the electric was below where the dish was mounted so it really had no bearing on the safety of the system. There is quite a bit of proof to show that they will make up stuff to fail a system.

The system sets you up to fail. Atleast thats how it seems here. Especialy when the warehouse is out of stickers for the remotes, none came in the reciever box and so you cant put them on the remote, 2 dings right there makes a fail. Even notating the account doesnt help. Cuz the QC doesnt give a crap around here.
 

Dishman1978

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 31, 2010
3,274
90
California
sca said:
tony - since it is also a qc requirement that the system be grounded at the switch (only if the switch is ul listed) or before. there is not normaly going to be a ground within 20 feet of the dish if said dish is mounted on a roof. i re-install EVERY system where i find a switch zip-tieds to the dish. this normally means none of the other qc rules were followed either.

Isnt is 20 feet grom the ground block? Not the dish. Read you CQI again.
 

Jimmerinwi

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 29, 2008
795
1
Midwest
I think he is referring to having the switch at the dish and trying to ground that. Not grounding the dish itself which is grounded to the ground block or UL listed switch with the messenger wire.
 

sca

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 27, 2009
2,432
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cookieland!
read my post again...i said BECAUSE we are expected to groun d at the switch or before....so if you follow that rule and the switch is at the dish....then a ground needs to be within 20 feet.
Isnt is 20 feet grom the ground block? Not the dish. Read you CQI again.
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
Then we were only allowed to install Sterlings. Then they switched to only snap N seal. Then PCT's were the only ones allowed. Then back to snap n seal. then I left working for the RSP.
DISH currently approves of 11 different connectors for standard RG-6 cable. That seems like a pretty good selection. The Stirlings have been removed relatively recently.

Here's the DISH Network list of standard RG-6 connectors (1/1/2011):

GILBERT UR6 APPROVED 6/26/2007
GILBERT UE6 APPROVED 6/26/2007
HOLLAND SLCU-6 APPROVED 3/27/2006
HOLLAND SLCU-6O APPROVED 3/27/2006
IDEAL 6RTQ F APPROVED 7/31/2010
PCT INTERNATIONAL PCT-DRS-6 APPROVED 3/27/2006
PCT INTERNATIONAL PCT-TRS-6 APPROVED 5/28/2009
PCT INTERNATIONAL PCT-TRS-6L APPROVED 5/28/2009
PPC EX6XL APPROVED 3/27/2006
PPC CMP6 APPROVED 6/26/2007
THOMAS & BETTS SNS1P6 APPROVED 3/27/2006
STIRLING SPL-6RTQ REMOVED 7/31/2010
ASKA FPL-56 REJECTED 6/26/2007
ASKA F-56SG REJECTED 8/1/2006
CHINA NATIONAL ELECTRONICS F56ALB REJECTED 8/1/2006

This clearly does not represent a revolving door of approved connectors.

On the DIRECTV side there are currently two (5/1/2010):

PPC EX6XL approved July-05
Perfect Vision PV6UE-05 "RIDGELOC 360"approved April-10
 

Mr Tony

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Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
Can we please get back on topic?

Why does it seem that lately way too many threads turn into a "installer bitch session"
 

TonyT@DISH Network

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 21, 2010
630
1
Denver, CO
Iceberg: Good Idea.

SCA: Never mentioned attaching the switch to the dish, moving it by the dish, or anything like that. I simply said the switch CAN go under an eave. It can also be used as a grounding point. I listed specs for distance between grounding point and ground itself. All my statements at this time are true and correct. Anyone finding a flaw in a post of mine, please quote it so I know where its wrong.

OP, make sure the system gets grounded. I am not sure if it is still allowed by QC for our techs, but if you are having a hard time finding a ground you can get a copper strap and ground it to the cold water pipe. That comes straight from the ground, as does the house ground, and works for this type of thing. At worst, it's better then nothing. If anyone knows if this is an approved practice, please say so. At this point, it sounds like when originally installed a ground was hard to find.

OP: Good luck with the re-install and if you want, I can setup one from this end. It may be the cheaper way to go if you need to tool up for the job and buy the approved supplies.
 

sca

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 27, 2009
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cookieland!
under the eve is fine, i do it all the time. no tony, somebody else was asking whats wrong with switch at the dish. water pipes are not approved, unless they are within 10 feet of the point the enter the ground. however, its still better than nothing. i will still ground any system if the only method i have is unnaproved. at least it is still grounded.
 
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harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
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Salem, OR
OP, make sure the system gets grounded. I am not sure if it is still allowed by QC for our techs, but if you are having a hard time finding a ground you can get a copper strap and ground it to the cold water pipe. That comes straight from the ground, as does the house ground, and works for this type of thing. At worst, it's better then nothing.
At its worst, it is no ground at all. Pipe only works if it is known to have continuous metallic continuity. Many modern homes have a frost-proof faucet connected to PEX tubing and that's useless as a bonding point.

NEC dictates that the connection is made within five feet of the water line entrance into the structure. The 10' part is the minimum amount of pipe that must be buried prior to entering the structure.
 

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