DVB HDTV / Ready to Give Up

[barret]

I thought I would post this as a partial guide for those thinking of getting into the DVB side of HDTV and also for some possible answers from those well experienced at this.
I am a newbie, 6 weeks or so, (old guy) but a newbie nonetheless to DVB. Basic computer skills only. Not a programmer which is probably part of my problem. It seems that if you can't speak the language, (on some forums) not here, you won't get help. I decided to go the computer /dvb card route because I was tired of waiting for a good North American released fta HD receiver with 4:2:2 capabilities. I purchased the following:

Gateway GM5474:

Processor Brand AMD Athlon(TM) 64 X2 Dual Core 6000+
Processor Speed 3.0GHzx2
System Bus 2000MHz
Cache Memory 1MB + 1MB on die Level 2
System Memory (RAM) 2GB
System Memory (RAM) Expandable To 4GB
Type of Memory (RAM) PC2-5300 DDR2
Hard Drive Type SATA II (7200 rpm
Hard Drive Size 500GB
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT HDMI Out
Video Memory 256MB
Personal Video Recorder (PVR) Yes
TV Tuner Yes
MPEG Yes
Audio High-definition (7.1-channel support)
Vista 32 bit

DVB Card: Technisat Skystar2

Setup: Out of box, plugged in HDMI cable to HDTV. Booted up, did initial set up, set up internet connection (Dialup) I know but that all that is available out here, and downloaded and installed all Vista updates. Powered off.

Installed Skystar2 card, powered up,downloaded and installed latest vista compatible driver 4.4.1RC2. for Skystar2 from Technisat.
Purchased TSReader full version and installed with VLC. Setup TSReader Input sat info for AMC3 PBSHD (as a test),scanned and watching HDTV. I located some 4:2:2 sport feeds, scanned and tested. Everything works great. I was totally amazed at the picture quality and performance.
Start to finish 6hours (5 hrs of it was downloading updates, programs, and drivers) the most frustrating part. I patted myself on the back and wondered why I had waited so long to do this. Well after a few days of testing and about five weeks of trying to solve a few issues which are not resolved yet I know why I waited.

Problems:
1)With TSReader and VLC I found that I could not view high bitrate HD streams such as NASCAR, the NFL ,and soccer without random picture freezes.
2)The regular ABC HD network feed and the CBS HD network feeds will not tune in a complete picture. They tune in partially blocked out and pixilated as if there was weak signal or a dish out of alignment. After attempting to tune one of these pixilated stations you can no longer tune any station on any satellite as they are all pixilated. The only way to clear it up is to restart the computer, just restarting TSReader is no help.

Attempts to correct these problems:
Downloaded and installed newest forceware nvidia driver 163.67 and now 163.69. no help.
Experimented with system cache /buffering in TSReader with some help to problem 1. Was able to get freezes of 3 to 5 seconds down to quick glitches. (some help)
Turned off firewalls and shutdown antivirus programs. (no help).
Turned off Remote Differential Compression in Vista. (no help).
Uninstalled TSReader and VLC from program files folder and reinstalled directly in the C drive root folder as this is supposed to help with some programs and Vista. (no help).
Disabled driver for preinstalled TV tuner card. (no help).
Task Manager shows CPU usage at 25 to 35% for good and bad streams.
Checked with TSReader tech support. They suggested packet loss causing problem #2. In researching I found three main causes for packet loss.
1) A corrupted transport stream(ruled out) 2) Weak signal strength (ruled out) 3) a bad DMA Engine (beats me).
At this point I decided to go another other route. It was time to install a viewer program. I have experimented with three, DVBViewer, MyTheatre, and Blaze HDTV. DVBViewer and BlazeHDTV will tune all the pixilated stations that TSReader will not tune in, perfectly. DVBViwer no choppiness no pixilations and the best picture hands down but sometimes will not tune in audio. Blaze HDTV has a slight robotic type picture on high bit rate streams and no 4:2:2 support. I cannot report on MyTheatre yet as I can not seem to get the diseqc setup correctly. In experimenting I found out that if I tune in one of the bad stations with TSReader first, it directly affects DVBViewer and Blaze not allowing them to tune a good picture either. The only correction is to restart the computer. If anyone has some input as to what I am or am not doing correctly or suggestions on what to try next I would appreciate it. I also have a few questions?

I am using TSReader to stream to VLC using the command line xxxx://127.0.0.1:1234. Is this the correct way to do it?
Is there a video compression feature in vista that can be turned off that might help?

Thanks for the time.

 

[jerryt]

I only have windows XP; but
You are using Beta drivers, they call them beta for a reason.

Try a different card.

Do you have Hardware acceleration turned on in your different codec.

Skystar 2 does not work with 2 core (the exception may be TSReader), MUST set affinity in task manager to only one cpu.

Get MyTheatre running, in settings/general settings/expert tab/select only one cpu (again only for Skystar 2)

 

[barret]

jerryt Thank you for the information. I understand the concept with beta drivers. but the problem was there with the latest non beta driver also. Tried with hardware acceleration enabled and disabled with no change. I did not try to disable one core yet. Your info is the first I have seen on this. I will give it a try tonight.

 

[jerryt]

A number of threads on the MyTheatre forum about the Skystar 2 and Dual Cores. People are reporting that the beta drivers fix the Dual core issue with a AMD processor (with an update from AMD, see MT forum). I tested the beta's with my Intel and the problem is still there.

 

[colbec]

Have you tried different screen resolutions? In my experience with HD DVB depending on your video card and other parameters a complete HD experience may be restricted to the more common resolutions.

 

[stogie5150]

Gateway GM5474:

Processor Brand AMD Athlon(TM) 64 X2 Dual Core 6000+

I just bought the exact same pc, on the promise that it can do Blu-ray and HDVD. I haven't tested it with a DVB HD feed yet, my HDMI cable is on its way from Monoprice.com.
I have,however, tuned some radio feeds, and I am NOT impressed with the CPU usage in dvbdream. I tuned one feed that had 50% CPU just audio. NOT what I expect from a 6000+ CPU.

EDIT: Just FYI, I am using a Twinhan 1020a DVB card.

Hang in there...we're in this together.

 

[barret]

Thanks colbec. I had tried as you suggested with no help. I also experimented with the video settings in VLC direct x etc.
stogie5150. I haven't seen the problem with high CPU usage yet. 25 to 35% seems to be what I run at with HD feeds. I haven't tried radio but I'll check and see what it does. My main problem though is what is causing packet loss with TSReader and that's what I want to nail down. jerryt's suggestion on disabling one core led me to and interesting find on the AMD homepage on installing a dual core optimizer that seems to relate to the problems I am having. The catch though is that depending on which post you read the optimizer is already configured on the later releases of vista.

 

[digiblur]

I was also going to suggest the single core deal. I know how to do it in XP by editing the boot.ini and add the "/onecpu" switch.

I never put anything on the command line for VLC. I just hit the Play button in TSReader and pick VLC. It fires up VLC automatically.

Are you getting continuity errors on TSReader during the jittering?

Keep at it.... My wife and I use TSReader daily for viewing and love it. My HTPC was down for 2 weeks due to a video card and the two of us went nuts with no HD to watch.

 

[barret]

digibur. Thanks. Everyone here has been a great help so far. At least now I have a little better guidance on things I should or should not be trying. I tried to find a way to disable one cpu last night in the task manager as jerryt suggested but I could not figure it out. I did go to the device manager and can view both processors there and was wondering if it is ok to remove one from there? As far as continuity errors yes a huge amount but only with problem #2 as posted in my original post. With problem #1, the random picture freezes there are no continuity errors but the outbuffer redlines then the picture freezes then the outbuffer resets and the picture comes back. But what seems to be odd is that during all of this the cpu usage mainly stays in the 35% range. TSReader seems to be my favorite so I would really like to figure this out.

 

[digiblur]

Google about editing the boot.ini to add the /onecpu switch in Vista.

 

[jerryt]

In XP you, open task manager, under applications tab, select your application "DVBDream" right click and select "Goto processes, right click the process and select "set affinity".

Don't know if it is the same in Vista.

 

[digiblur]

In XP you, open task manager, under applications tab, select your application "DVBDream" right click and select "Goto processes, right click the process and select "set affinity".

Don't know if it is the same in Vista.

I was talking about the real way to do it. Boot the whole PC as single core to see if that fixes it.

 

[jerryt]

I was talking about the real way to do it. Boot the whole PC as single core to see if that fixes it.

I only set one application to be single core, the application that uses the Skystar 2.

 

[barret]

Just and update: Downloaded and installed AMD core optimizer from AMD. restarted computer. Started TSReader. Checked task manager /affinity/ just like XP. TSReader and VLC running on just one core. Tried switching cores and tried running on both cores with no real changes. I have posted with TSReader tech support and am waiting for a response.

 

[digiblur]

Just and update: Downloaded and installed AMD core optimizer from AMD. restarted computer. Started TSReader. Checked task manager /affinity/ just like XP. TSReader and VLC running on just one core. Tried switching cores and tried running on both cores with no real changes. I have posted with TSReader tech support and am waiting for a response.

Try the /onecpu test first.

how to edit boot.ini - Google Search

 

[oncewaslost]

Barret,

I was having similar problems with the ABC HD channel. Trying to watch that channel with dvbdream would really wig my card out to the point nothing would work until a reboot. I am running an AMD X2 4600 with a Skystar2 card and 4.4.1 drivers. TsReader Lite was logging many continuity errors on this channel. I tried everything I could think of for weeks and finally gave up on it.

Then I swapped out my 19 year old chaparral corotor with a new dual c-band lnbf. ABC HD magically started working and has never failed since.

Oddly, I have never had any problems with dvbdream running with dual cpu enabled. For now my preference has changed to DvbViewer.

I have never tried any 4:2:2 channels.

One thing that you might try is to record one of the channels with dvbdream without rendering, then try to play the file. If you can't get a clean recording this way, the problem may lie outside of your computer.

Good luck!

 

[RandallA]

You can force TSReader to run on one core by using the command line:

tsreader -1

I'm having a problem with my Athlon 64 X2 4600+ and TSReader and Rod at Cool.stf suggested to run TSReader on a single core and gave me the switch.

 

[barret]

Just an update. FIXED!
First thanks to those who took the time to respond and provide input. It has taken me until now to get everything working without a hitch. Superb HD picture, no lockups or freezes, low cpu usage, etc.

The main problem was my use of what I now know to be a low quality digital lnb. I would not have suspected this because it was new and giving me strength and quality readings of 80% to 90%. I won't list the brand but it was sold as a premium, digital, low noise, gold rated lnb. I replaced this new unit with a Norsat 8115. What a unit!

From this point seeing that I had made so many changes to the computer setup I decided to do a complete factory restore of the operating system and start from scratch. After the reinstall (about two hours) I simply installed the Skystar 2 card with the updated Vista driver, installed DVBViewer, TSReader and one codec only (the Etymonix Softreel Codec for 4:2:2.). All other codecs I needed for HD are apparently pre insatalled with this computer setup.

One small problem left that I will live with is with TSReader.I get high continuity errors and picture tiling on some CBS HD football feeds only. I suspect a defective (also new) Skystar2 card but with the release of the Pansat 9200 I don't think I will invest any more time money into this computer setup.
Thanks again.

 

[Anole]

Verrrrry interesting.

And it makes one wonder if another receiver would have been able to take this less-than-clean/stable signal and decode it?

In my early attempts at HD reception with a USB or PCI device, I had quite a bit of breakup, too.
At the time I thought my computer might be underpowered, so I replaced both the computer and USB box with a hotter computer and a PCI card.
Even put in a much bigger dish, without any satisfaction.

I know all the following can make HD harder to decode:
- high FEC like 7/8 ,
- adjacent satellites,
- or too small a dish,
...but the BER is also held hostage by the stability and noise spectrum of the LO in the LNB.
It'll be interesting to compare the specs on both LNBs and see how they're rated.
...assuming neither company lies...

 

[barret]

Anole
Here are the specs for both lnb's.

Specs provided on units as follows:

Norsat 8115
Cband Digital DRo
Input 3.4-4.2 GHz
LO freq 5.15 GHz
Stability +/- 100 KHz
Temp 15K
Gain 60dB


Brand XXX
Gold label series
Noise Figure 17K



Online specs from satellite supplier for brand XXX as follows:

This superb 17 Degree LNB will really clean up those sparkles in your picture! Upgrade that old tired lnb for the best picture on 4DTV or analog systems. Mini design allows for fitting into tight places and the short wave-guide eliminates unwanted signal losses. Includes gasket, coax seal and flange bolts/nuts.

Excellent specs for analog or 4DTV C Band Systems:

* 65 db gain
* +/- 2.0 MHz stability
* Excellent 80 db@1 KHz phase noise reduction
* Frequency input 3.7 to 4.2 GHz
* Frequency output 950 to 1450 MHz