E* says 720p not supported on 811- EVER (2 Viewers)

bsic

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 6, 2004
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I recieved an email response to my question on the 720p output.

My original mail to E* was :


I am writing to see if you have been informed of the issues with the model 811 reciever output on the 720p setting.


This appears to be SD quality. I have a native 720p television- when I set the 811 output as 720p (as recommended), the image quality is severely degraded. Doesn't even appear to be HD anymore. Changing to 1080i (and thus letting my TV do the scaling to 720p) appears DRASTICALLY better- night and day difference.


Some folks think you are downconverting to 480p first, and then upconverting to 720p, which would lose all HD resolution.


And thier response:


Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:12 AM
To: Tech
Subject: 811 720p output

Dear Bill,


Thank you for your email correspondence. Unfortunately, the model 811 receiver does not support 720p. At this time I do not believe it ever will.


Sincerely
Tom H.


Technical Support


Dish


Well, that answers that. Looks like you should leave your 811 on 1080i and let your TV do the scale (probably better anyways).
 

bsic

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 6, 2004
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Texas
Scott,

Have you looked at the 720p output? There are threads all over dbstalk and here, and not a single person thinks the 720p is outputting HD. It may be outputting 720p, but its taking it down to 480p/i or something then upconverting.

If someone out there sees different and claims the 720p output is HD- let me know because you seem to have one box that doesnt behave like the others. There is no question in looking at the PQ that HD is lost.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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My TV does not support 720p so I can't confirm anything, I am going off of the specs which says 720p is supported.

Let me ping Dave Kummer and see what I can find out.
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
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Need to have a 720p source to really tell what it is doing. The scaler (from 1080i to 720p) could just be really bad.
 

gpflepsen

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Sep 8, 2003
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The 811's 720p output is stellar on 720p programming such as ESPN HD. I know as I have a 720p display.

Haven't you learned to come here for the real skinny instead of CSRs?
 

AcuraCL

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Jan 7, 2004
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Yes, I have to say that I have seen some dam fine looking 720p output from the 811. But not all the time. All in all, things look better ... not drastically, but better ... with it set to 1080i. Main diff is greater contrast.

My guess would be exactly what Mike123abc said: the scaler in your tv is better than the one in the 811.

E.g. HDNet broadcasts in 1080i. If you set the 811 to 1080i output, it passes the pure dig. signal to the TV (this is over DVI output), which then scales to 720p. If however you set the 811 output to 720p, it's going to scale the HDNet pic to 720p, which your tv will then receive and dutifully display.

I've gone back and forth between 1080i and 720p for this past week. There is a pic. quality difference, but not dramatic. Still, I am now leaving mine set at 1080i.
 

bsic

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 6, 2004
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AcuraCL said:
My guess would be exactly what Mike123abc said: the scaler in your tv is better than the one in the 811.

I heard this in discussions before I had my 811. With a 720p output- its not just bad scaling, its NOT HD. HUGE amounts of detail are lost, and it looks grainy like an SD broadcast. A minor or moderate degradation in PQ would be fine- but like i said, in my case its night and day.

I have to check out ESPN when they happen to actually be showing HD.
 

AcuraCL

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Jan 7, 2004
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bsic said:
I heard this in discussions before I had my 811. With a 720p output- its not just bad scaling, its NOT HD. HUGE amounts of detail are lost, and it looks grainy like an SD broadcast. A minor or moderate degradation in PQ would be fine- but like i said, in my case its night and day.

I have to check out ESPN when they happen to actually be showing HD.

I understand what you're saying ... and I can assure you I would be able to tell the diff between HD and SD ... but it IS 720p HD content that is being displayed when that is what I have selected. Maybe you have a really bad receiver. I don't know. But I'm not hallucinating. The difference is not night and day, but night and late twilight. (Which is actually a good approximation of the difference I see Dish 720p is less contrasty than 1080i.)

I am not trying to argue. I believe what you're saying. Can you do the same please?
 

toto

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Dec 29, 2003
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I've run the 720p output to 4 different 720 fixed pixel moniters, and if thats 720 i'm young and good lookin
 

John Kotches

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My FPTV is native 720p, and it looks stunning on ESPN-HD. In fact, it's the best looking HD content available to me since my ABC affiliate foolishly transcodes to 1080i.

Internal scaling on the 811 rots, plain and simple. I have gone to the effort of outputting native resolution (ie switching between 1080i and 720p as needed) to optimize PQ.

Cheers,
 

AcuraCL

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 7, 2004
345
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John Kotches said:
My FPTV is native 720p, and it looks stunning on ESPN-HD. In fact, it's the best looking HD content available to me since my ABC affiliate foolishly transcodes to 1080i.

Internal scaling on the 811 rots, plain and simple. I have gone to the effort of outputting native resolution (ie switching between 1080i and 720p as needed) to optimize PQ.

Cheers,

Not hard to do with 4 HD channels. God help us when we have dozens or hundreds of HD channels.

Of course, what a problem to have, eh?
 

mike123abc

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It would be nice if there was a way to say what to do with each type of HDTV format -- 480, 720,1080, maybe you want it all passed through unchanged, maybe you want 480 and 1080 passed through and 720 upconverted to 1080i (what I would personally use since my TV does not do 720p).
 

AcuraCL

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 7, 2004
345
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Btw, I'd tell that Dish CS person to read their own web page:

From the HD Receiver page:

Dish 811

Next-generation DISH Network high definition satellite receiver with integrated off-air tuner for reception of high and standard definition programming.

FEATURES:

High definition (HD) and standard definition (SD) single-tuner satellite receiver.
Integrated off-air tuner for reception of local digital/HD and analog broadcasts.
480p, 720p or 1080i resolutions supported via HD outputs.
HD connectivity: DVI-HDTV/DISH DVI (DVI-D) and HD Component video outputs.
SD connectivity: Composite audio/video and S-video outputs
2-day Electronic Program Guide (EPG)
 

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