Exclusive: Dish / Sirius News

[Chris Freeland]

I doubt that E* will be able to put up the talk radio channels, Sirius had to sign contracts with individual networks for those just like E* has to do for each cable tv network that E* caries on their system. If E* were to add any of those talk radio or sports radio channels they will need to deal with each one individually independent of Sirius.The Sirius music channels however are produced, owned and operated by Sirius.

 

[mikeb]

Well, it's fine that Dish has them now but I have never listened to any of the audio channels and will probably never listen to Sirius. I think it's a waste of bandwidth (even though small). All the audio channels and shopping channels should be cancelled and more HD added. Our local Cox is adding INHD tomorrow along with all the locals they already carry and the same national HD stuff I get from Dish now (HBOHD, ESPNHD, etc.). Just my opinion.

 

[Stargazer]

I wonder if Sirius would have to pay the stations for having the content on Dish Network. Also would just the mono channels get replaces, the stereo ones, or both? If both got replaced then we would still be up almost 10 channels from what we have now.

 

[dlsnyder]

ETA is late spring. I wouldn't expect to see it come up until the end of June. Just in time for my birthday!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Now this is interesting, I just saw this...

(A Big Nod of the SatelliteGuys hat goes to the folks at SiriusBackStage.COM for this info!)

Other intesting info about Muzak:
http://www.muzak.com/images/corp/Muzak-Holdings-10-K.pdf

As part of our arrangements with EchoStar, we furnish 60 music channels to commercial subscribers and 52 of the 60 music channels to residential subscribers over EchoStar’s satellite system. Pursuant to the agreements with EchoStar, EchoStar pays us a programming fee for each of its residential subscribers and pays us, and our franchisees, a commission for sales made by EchoStar or its agents to commercial subscribers in the respective territories. We pay EchoStar a fee for uplink transmission of music channels to our clients and we rent space at EchoStar’s Cheyenne, Wyoming uplink facility. We also pay EchoStar a royalty and combined access fees on music programs sold by the Company, which are distributed by EchoStar to commercial
subscribers. The term of each of our agreements with EchoStar ends in 2010. EchoStar has agreed that it will not provide transponder space to, enter into or maintain distributor agreements or relationships with, or enter into any agreements for the programming or delivery of any audio services via direct broadcast satellite frequencies with, a specified group of our competitors. We have agreed that we will not secure transponder space for, enter into or maintain distributor agreements or relationships with, or enter into any agreement for the programming or delivery of any of our services with any competitor of EchoStar via direct broadcast satellite frequencies or with specified competitors of EchoStar via specified frequencies.

 

[dlsnyder]

It seems that Echostar has taken the position that Sirius is not in competition with Muzak therefore a deal with them is OK. What doesn't make sense is that E*'s current contract with Muzak seems to preclude them dropping carriage of those audio channels. It sounds like E* has now committed to additional bandwidth for Sirius rather than replacing Muzak. And they still don't have bandwidth to carry any additional HD channels. Hmmm...

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Thats what I am reading into it too.

I think this deal is good for Dish, however it is NOT GOOD for Sirius.

I was planning on picking up a new Sirius Plug and Play unit for my house. (I currently have XM) but after hearing this news I have decided against paying $12.95 a month since I will be getting most of the service for FREE from Dish.

I am sure others who were interested in Sirius and have heard this news are also taking a step back and are waiting for Dish to give them it for free.

 

[dlsnyder]

oooh good point!

Although if I really REALLY like what I hear I might get one for the car since I don't currently have any satellite radio. It would be really nice for my 2 hour drive home each day!

 

[Chris Freeland]

That is interesting Scott and explains why Sky Report reported this morning that the muzak audio music channels will remain even with the addition of Sirius music channels to AT120. I also suspect that Sirius or XM are not on Muzak's list of excluded competitors, especially since neither one of those S-band satellite radio providers where even in existence when E* and Muzak entered into this contract. I would suspect that those excluded competitors are Music Choice, DMX and posibly other commercial music providers, I doubt that Sirius is even considered a competitor because their market is primarily the consumer Mobile audio market which is different then the commercial audio market that Muzak pursues. So it appears that E*AT120 subs will get both Dish CD and Sirius, AT180 will now get DishCD, DishAudio and Sirius. Whew, thats a lot of audio channels . Does this mean that AT120 will become AT180 and AT180 will become AT240?

Will D* now add XM?

 

[Chris Freeland]

Oh Scott, why have you not posted the Sky Report this morning? If you had you would have known that they reported that E* was going to carry both Muzak and Sirius in AT120 and above.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Read above. The information I got was direct from Echostar Spokesman Marc Lumpkin.

Notice how he first email says Sirius is replacing the existing channels, the the second one says it might be in addition to the Muzak channels.

I believe that Dish has no clue what they are going to do yet, and they are just putting the pieces of the puzzle together now.

 

[Chris Freeland]

Scott, just going by your post of the article above it appears that E* is contractually obligated to carry Muzak until 2010 and it does not appear that Sirius is on that can not carry competitor list. With that article plus the SkyReport article their is no doubt in my mind that both services will be on E* until at least 2010. Of couse the E* execs may be confused .

 

[dlsnyder]

That's why they have a legal department - to nudge Charlie or Marc Lumpkin and tell them "uh, sorry, you can't do that!"

 

[cdru]

blah blah blah...The term of each of our agreements with EchoStar ends in 2010. EchoStar has agreed that it will not provide transponder space to, enter into or maintain distributor agreements or relationships with, or enter into any agreements for the programming or delivery of any audio services via direct broadcast satellite frequencies with, a specified group of our competitors. We have agreed that we will not secure transponder space for, enter into or maintain distributor agreements or relationships with, or enter into any agreement for the programming or delivery of any of our services with any competitor of EchoStar via direct broadcast satellite frequencies or with specified competitors of EchoStar via specified frequencies.

US Code Title 47, Chapter 10, Sec 1110 states:

(c) Definitions

As used in this section:

(1) Direct broadcast satellite frequency band

The term ''direct broadcast satellite frequency band'' means the band of frequencies at 12.2 to 12.7 gigahertz.

All Dish has to do is put the signal up on a frequency less then 12.2 GHz and they are in the clear. Sure it's a technicallity, but that's the legal system.

 

[dlsnyder]

You can't be "Sirius"? If that were to happen only those unfortunate few that need a Superdish would get the Sirius music channels. No, I tend to believe in the first theory, that the new channels will be in addition to the old ones. What I can't figure out is where are they going to squeeze them in.

Perhaps a better question is if E* is on this big kick to add markets where they serve locals why would they do this now? Does this really add a significant value to the service they already offer?

 

[mike123abc]

I have no doubt the Muzak channels will still be on Echostar AND they will continue to be available to Muzak commercial customers. But, the question is how the actual contract reads with Muzak reguarding residential customers. It could quite possibly be that E* has the right to sell the channels to residential customers, but is not required to do so. It is probably likely Dish will not be able to offer Sirrus channels to commercial accounts.

 

[dlsnyder]

It is probably likely Dish will not be able to offer Sirrus channels to commercial accounts.

They probably couldn't do it because at that point Sirius could be considered to be a competitor to Muzak. That's the kind of stuff the suits will have to hammer out before the channels debut.

 

[Stargazer]

Those audio channels do not take up all that much space at all so I would say a dozen or two, perhaps even more than what a video channel space it takes up.

 

[James Long]

Actually the only music channels that are used for retail are the mono ones.
..
Now it is quite possible that Dish actually broadcasts these 2x, once for the DBS customers with the song titles/artists info and once for just Muzak. This seems even more likely since they have different channels.

They are the same streams used for E* and Muzak receiver. Your receiver just has a different program order.

The channels that E* also carries have an info stream paired with the audio stream that gives the artist/title/album information. The channels that are Muzak only don't have the info stream.

Subscribing to stereo Muzak would seem strange, since most Muzak uses would only require a mono feed. Perhaps there are non-retail Muzaks that get them? (I was in the audio room at a local a conference center that had a Muzak receiver for their stereo amplifier. That would have been a good use for stereo feeds.)

JL

 

[James Long]

Those audio channels do not take up all that much space at all so I would say a dozen or two, perhaps even more than what a video channel space it takes up.

Rule of thumb: Eight stereo audio channels = One standard TV channel

60 channels of Sirius ~ 8 standard TV channels
32 channels of DishCD ~ 4 standard TV channels
All above: 12 standard TV channels or one transponder full

Note that in real life the DishCD and Mono/Muzak channels are spread out across many transponders on 119.

Also note from the Sirius press conference that there is a known bandwidth problem in the way of getting Sirius up today.

JL