Fringe Location PreAmp/Antenna Upgrading Technician HELP...

SlackWaterRadioGuy

Member
Original poster
Mar 26, 2021
10
3
USA
a lil back ground of my OTA experience.. started at this location with a JackTV, a Radio-shack Roter, 3 wire romex connection, and 50ft of rg59 that i added to a line running in to the house.. i put it about 20 to 30 ft and barely got and Sac Chanel's.. it would come and go, pixelaiting and drop out.. a few times i was even picking up Sutro Tower on a good day for a few minutes.. i pointed it north and got Chico and the reception was fairly good.. kept it there for a while, about 2 years, but the drop outs and bad weather destroying the signal kept annoying the heck out of me! i ordered the Antennas Direct DB8e and the Winegard 200 LNA, 64ft of RG6, put it Up and wow the Chico channels "20.1 kcvu PARADISE" became very dependable.. pointed it south and still had drop out, fade and pixelating (there's a lot of trees pointed that way and a power line in between me and the transmitters in SACRAMENTO)...
i kept it at Chico and went through a cpl re-scans, and one station drooped its HAG lower and i lost that one completely till another one came on.. this last round of Re-packing i did the re-scan after loosing what i was getting, and NO CHANNELS Present at all from that direction now...
so having to look south west-ish again (WalnutGrove Calif), i have a sweet spot for Chanel 25/13.1CBS and its good and solid and the 64 is coming in most of the time (for now) with lil to no drop out for the last 4 days,
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but i cant get 31.1, 3.1, 40.1 when im getting the 25, i need to move it a lil back n forth to get them in but there hit n miss one comes on and another drops off and have drop n fade..(the antenna set up now is looking across my metal snow roof from the north roof peak looking south west-ish at about 2ft above it, not ideal i know but ive had it higher with out much benefit ((im saving for a tower some day, lol))..the towers are in the same location so i should be getting all of those channels and the others from those "4 towers" in the same location, i would think..the signal is about the same, 25% on the TV = 40% on the Mediasonic HW130STB (i got it as the first upgrade thinking the TV had a weak receiver, but they seem to do just as well as each other, except they scan and get diff channels, the new box will get 13/64, but the TV will get 3/40 so that seems a lil weird to me..) and i wondering if was getting channel overload, but at my distance,??? with low signal reception im guessing i still have signal overload from 1 higher powered station compared to the other ones.???
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so my first thought after a new receiver box that i need a new pre-amp.. Ive been looking at the Televes with AGT (Televes 560383 single input has higher gain then the Televes 560483 Dual Input, but if i need to add a second antenna set ill need the duel port..) so it balances the signals from the 4 towers, but if im so far away that the added AGC Might not work and be wasted circuity, so my next idea is the KT-700-COAX Dual Input AMP keeping it basic with less thingies (no AGC) in the amp to go wrong, but the more i look at my sig report RabbitEars.Info and the tower locations of the channels i do want, i might need the AGC to keep some Sigs from over powering the others due to Atmospheric reasons giving me a better balance so the receiver will pick them up evenly?
Or is my 8Bay just getting to much Multi-Pathing and i need to upgrade to a Yagi Long Beam to Get Better Signal, (im looking at the Televes 149883 DAT BOSS MIX LR antenna (the DAT doesn't say It Has The AGC like the Peramp does, but says it balences the signals), so i dont know if id need the Duel Input Televes or the KT-700-COAX Dual with a Morgan Systems/ICE M-320, HF/VHF/UHF, 75 Ohms, 3-2000 MHz, DC blocking, F connectors, receive only that would be placed between my antenna (BD8e now/ or the DAT BOSS if i get on, running Passive and amped by the Duel Port Amp After the Static Discharge Unit on the mast with the proper grounding! tho all the channels i really want are on uhf (that i know of as right now) so adding 1 or 2 vhf channels might be a waist as they might be in a different direction so i might want a separate UHF & VHF in 2 direction (the less i turn the roter to change chanels the better.). i do pick up one VHF (on occasion with the DB8e) 6.1/9PBS....its on one of the 4 towers and im still not sure how many channels are coming off the 4 towers because when i change my antenna height in the setting for higher the channels on the 4 towers seem to change per there listing when i click on them???
So im asking advice first, on the AGC in one amp helping me compared to the same "all channel amplification amp" like im getting now? yes i know the amp i have is now considered crap from all im reading (im prety sure any new amp will help)...Second is my antenna just not up for getting theses channels at 83 to 86 miles away.. like i said im getting 13.1/25 right now great so that tells me my antenna is working good....???
fixed income here like alot of others so i dont want to buy stuff i might not need compared to buying things i do need..that's why at this point ive looked up and concidered all i think i can, and i know at this point i still dont know all there is to know, i seem to have narrowed down a bit....

so im a little bit confused at all iv learned reticently about signal, preamps, coax, and everything else involved in this new Hobby..HELP. .lol

thank you in advance for taking the time to read my lil problem...
73
N
 
I found that a clean new coax and a single run to the tv is best with no amp. Use a short run to antenna and tune it to the best signal possible. Then put longer run to tv.
 
I myself have a channel master antenna in my attic and get 90+ ch. I had to use a amp to bring in signal threw material. There are fringe channels that come and go. Wish i had it outside but HOA would not be happy. I am in N. California. Can get KSBW and one time picked up station in Santa Barbara ch 6.1. I have another antenna pointed to Sacramento it gets ch 13.1 and 31.1. just straight run to upstairs tv from attic. Alot of the tvs cannot quite pick up signals. The squelch on my vizio is around 78 80% to capture signal. It is goof to have a portable tv to bank signals easier on roof with short run.
 
I found that a clean new coax and a single run to the tv is best with no amp. Use a short run to antenna and tune it to the best signal possible. Then put longer run to tv.
ok, that's was the one thing i didn't do last week when this all started. the atn is on the second floor peak with a flat roof below it where i have a ladder set up. last week i took the tv out on the flat roof and ran a 12 ft jumper in to the jumper coming from the ant combiner 2ft so i was amp free and got a worse signal, but the weather was bad last weak and i had no solid signal so in the short amount of time i did my samples i was fighting bad signal... rain was coming so i had to get stuff back together.. the good signal im getting now didn't happen till Tuesday this week when i was doing random rescaning and ant turning ... i got lucky getting it where it is now and havent moved it.. i did unplug the amp at the inline coax plug and i lost all reception..
long story short, i just took the power plug out of line, my 64 ft of New RG6 cut from a 100ft i bought about 2 years ago to the box, went up with a barel plug and jacked the lines together with out the amp.....
came back in and had the same channels at the same sig strength... im floored, lol, at least i know now my amp is a piece of crap and wasn't been working since i don't know when, iv ever.....lol WOW....
ive been thinking to much i forgot to go back and do that simple test...
thank you
 
Hello from your neighbor in Meadow Vista, CA. Here is my story:
CM-7777 Using 12Vdc Power Supply

The HomeRun tuner at the top of the tower with a quality Kitz KT-200 amp was the only solution that provided reliable reception at my location. BTW... I have now removed the antennas (XG91 and YA-1713), Channel Master rotator, amp, tuner and low voltage enclosure from the tower and it is now in storage. A new hobby...put up an amateur radio Hexbeam antenna in it's place.

Some great TV gear is just collecting dust. Make me an offer that I can't refuse. :)
 
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Another thing is my older Vizio upstairs gives you option to scan individual channels. Which is nice once you have a majority banked and want to bring in a fringe ch. My new Vizio does not have that option.
 
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Wow, thought my Rabbit Ears report looked bad! :rolleyes At distances like that from the towers I would definitely be looking into a directional antenna and good pre-amp. I use these antennas for 2 edge reception at 42 and 57 miles. :)

Long range UHF: https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/30-2370/yagi-antenna-91-element-long-range/dp/72Y2542

Long range VHF-HI: https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/30-2476/deep-fringe-directional-antenna/dp/71Y5462
after doing the test i didnt do last week, i now have no amp in line and im getting the same signal, so im guessing my 8bay is doing ok, if i get an amp i might have better signals... i didnt know my amp wasn't even working..lol as far as the yagi's you mention i doubt they could handle the snow we have been getting the last 2 years up here... we got 4ft one night last year that took out our chimny, so i dont see by the looks of thoes antennas that they could handel a seasion or 2 here (snow and ice load).... thats why i have been looking at this https://www.televes.com/us/149883-dat-boss-mix-lr-antenna.html as it looks like its built like a tank... its the most supported yagi ive seen out there and it has great reviews... so im thinking if i order the televes duel port AGC Preamp and add it to my DB8e now i might be able to spread the 2 bays to cover the 2, or basically 4 towers in Walnutgrove id might get the channels i only get every so often now, and if not ill go up and get the televes yagi and run it passive on the amp ill probably get after seeing how crappy my amp really was.... with out my amp right now im getting some drop out but im holding the same signal strength i had when it was plugged in.... im surprised ig getting as much as i am, im thinking the dropping im getting is just the changing of the day but its still as good as when i thought i had a working amp....

my biggest question now is if the Automatic Gain Control int the televes Amp will help evenout the signals im trying to get verses just getting the kt-700 with out AGC as all i need is a basic amp..... im going with the AGC amp in my head, but thats why im asking all these questions..

ty for the help
 
Another thing is my older Vizio upstairs gives you option to scan individual channels. Which is nice once you have a majority banked and want to bring in a fringe ch. My new Vizio does not have that option.
my new receiver says i can add channels manually, i haven't tried that yet, im just trying to basic signals first before i mess with added features... so since i have the ch25 locked in strong i'll be getting an amp now that i know mine wasn't working at all..lol
"my biggest question now is if the Automatic Gain Control int the televes Amp will help evenout the signals im trying to get in the 4 towers so close together like they are, verses just getting the kt-700 with out AGC as all i might need is a basic amp..... im going with the AGC amp in my head right now, but thats why im asking all these questions.."

narrowing it all down one step at a time...lol
 
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Hello from your neighbor in Meadow Vista, CA. Here is my story:
CM-7777 Using 12Vdc Power Supply

The HomeRun tuner at the top of the tower with a quality Kitz KT-200 amp was the only solution that provided reliable reception at my location. BTW... I have now removed the antennas (XG91 and YA-1713), Channel Master rotator, amp, tuner and low voltage enclosure from the tower and it is now in storage. A new hobby...put up an amateur radio Hexbeam antenna in it's place.

Some great TV gear is just collecting dust. Make me an offer that I can't refuse. :)
like i said to FTA4PA and his ant recommendations i don't think the XG91 could Handel the snow we been getting the last few years, the YA-1713 good and looks like it might handle the snow but the televes looks indestructible, lol...
i went with the DB8e over the yagies at the time simply for the snow load and the possibility to run both bays split on diff towers so i don't need the roter going every time i want one of the 4 or 5 channels i have gotten and want to have full time with minimle dropping and fading, so if i get a good amp and it works like i intended it to when i got it ill run split bay to pic up the channels of the walnutgrove towers and call it a day... i dont and never have really watched alot of tv, i just want a few channels that come on when i turn on the TV..

im a simple guy, lol yeah right....

ty for the offers....
 
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Quite certain that the XG91 would hold up to to the snow and ice loads. Not so sure about the winter worthiness of the YA-1713, but would say the XG91 would handle your conditions.

The HomeRun tuner being inches away from the Kitz amp made the difference for me. Simply running the amplified signal less than 75 feet through Quad GR6 to one tuner lost many of the channels or made them unreliable. Yep, we are in a basin and only could receive a few Chico (Sutter Butte) channels without the extreme measures.

Good Luck!
 
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lol as far as the yagi's you mention i doubt they could handle the snow we have been getting the last 2 years up here... we got 4ft one night last year that took out our chimny, so i dont see by the looks of thoes antennas that they could handel a seasion or 2 here (snow and ice load)
This will be the third year I've had ours up. Pennsylvania winters are not exactly mild and we get really strong winds in the summer as we are located next to an open field with nothing to stop them. Mine are in fine condition and working well. I would not use or recommend junk but it is your choice. :rolleyes
 
Quite certain that the XG91 would hold up to to the snow and ice loads. Not so sure about the winter worthiness of the YA-1713, but would say the XG91 would handle your conditions.

The HomeRun tuner being inches away from the Kitz amp made the difference for me. Simply running the amplified signal less than 75 feet through Quad GR6 to one tuner lost many of the channels or made them unreliable. Yep, we are in a basin and only could receive a few Chico (Sutter Butte) channels without the extreme measures.

Good Luck!
we got 4ft of snow one night last year that took out our chimny, replaced and heavily reinforced now, so i don't see by the looks of it the xg91 taking that or alot of ice. the YA-1713 looks thinner and stealthier so i think it would hold very lil snow from the looks of it compared to the xg91... just from what i see...
like i said i found out my amp doesn't work and i just found that out today, but its getting windy so i wont test with the receiver up on the mast just yet... ill try that out when its calm, the wind alone is messing with the trees that signal is getting off n on right now, but at least i know why thats happening.. it was still and calm when i was testing earlier...

so under your idea and result you got, your saying weather i have an amp or not getting my receiver closer to the antenia will work better sending more usable decoded signal down the 64ft i have to the TV? wouldn't the loss work the same or is that just a thing with the home run box?

Quite certain that the XG91 would hold up to to the snow and ice loads. Not so sure about the winter worthiness of the YA-1713, but would say the XG91 would handle your conditions.

The HomeRun tuner being inches away from the Kitz amp made the difference for me. Simply running the amplified signal less than 75 feet through Quad GR6 to one tuner lost many of the channels or made them unreliable. Yep, we are in a basin and only could receive a few Chico (Sutter Butte) channels without the extreme measures.

Good Luck!
 
I tried the Televes preamp with AGC, and it was WORSE than the Kitztech Kt-200 I've been using for years. I can't recommend the Televes at all.
ive actually heard that and probly saw your post about it also when i was researching all this.. ty for the info... the AGC seems brand new and if its not all that then i dont want to waist my money on extra featurs that will fail or just plain not work... that why i was asking this in the first place, i love the reviews on the KT stuff.....
i appreciate your help... thank you
 
Own both antennas and would put money on the XG91 surviving ice and snow over the YA-1713. Different bands, different construction, different applications. :) If you are concerned about the XG91 construction, the linked Televes antenna is less robust and a whole lot more surface area. You will know what is best for your application. Either will outperform the bay antenna.

Coax distribution does no favors to an ATSC signal. A LAN based ATSC tuner at the antenna will provide significantly better performance with a weak signal and also provide multi-point distribution. A HomeRun (or other LAN based tuner) demodulates, demuxes and outputs a service stream over the network.
 
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Own both antennas and would put money on the XG91 surviving ice and snow over the YA-1713. Different bands, different construction, different applications. :) If you are concerned about the XG91 construction, the linked Televes antenna is less robust and a whole lot more surface area. You will know what is best for your application. Either will outperform the bay antenna.

Coax distribution does no favors to an ATSC signal. A LAN based ATSC tuner at the antenna will provide significantly better performance with a weak signal and also provide multi-point distribution. A HomeRun (or other LAN based tuner) demodulates, demuxes and outputs a service stream over the network.
so if i put my Mediasonic HW130STB up on the roof and it gets better quality signal, how do i change channels or do scans or check the signal strength, turn it on, turn it off from down stairs in the house when the receiver is up on the mast, not to mention get it water proofed so its not even able to be seen let alone point the channel changer at it....
doesn't seem feasible with my receiver i just got... how does your receiver work?
 
i clicked on that link but it doesn't explain how you change channels or that it needs to be on the mast. im guessing its some kind of wifi streaming thing....it actualy doesnt explain anything it does or how it could help out my situation. we dont do wifi, and we dont stream anything or record stuff and only use one TV, so at this point i dont think that thing would help at all...
i just need and have one now, a single receiver/decoder/tuner that works on our single tv....the new receiver i got seems to work about the same as the TV so that's why im asking now about amps and antennas because it seems i can get the channels in but not all the time or all at the same time and signal level. if im getting signal with drop outs and some possible overloading from the 4 towers in the one location that the channels i want are on, i need to figure out that problem.... so now knowing my receiver is ok and my amp actually doesn't work, i need a new Amp (so far now im thinking ill be getting the KT-700), and or upgrade to a better long range yagi.....? with the amp unplugged (not inline) i was getting the same sig as with it inline and on, but after about 20 min it started fading in n out, but it was getting windy, i plugged it back inline and re-powered the amp and still had the drop out and sig loss that started 10 or 20 min after i took the amp out of line, telling me that amp was doing nothing for me. so in both cases the tv acted the same way with the amp inline and with out it all together....
ill get a bigger mast mount now and see if going higher with out the amp helps pull the other few channels in better..
it was set up when chico had a good station north of me, height meant nothing so i mounted close on the peak.... guess ill get it up higher before i buy an amp, but this just makes me want a real tower even more... lol!

damm hobbies, i got 2 reasons for a tower now...lol

thanks for the info, every lil bit helps....
73
 
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