Frustrated with Ultra and DiSEqC 1.2

[GreatFTA]

Hello.
I have my Ultra for 3 weeks now. Beautiful picture quality, record well, handles internet okay. It lives up to everything but one thing, programming the satellites using DiSEqC 1.2. I have been trying to program the satellites. I would find the satellites using USAL then I switch over to 1.2 to fine tune. I saved the settings, blindscanned the TPs but don't save the channels. Then I scan in the channels using the satellite scan and saved them. After I done all that, I would reboot the receiver (just you would do to a computer if you want to save the settings). I would go to another satellite, do everything like before, and reboot.
After rebooting, the channel on that sat satellite would be on. Then I press the OK button on remote, go to menu till I see the list of two satellites I programmed, clicked on the first satellite I programmed, click the channel of that satellite then OK.
A small box would appear showing that the dish is moving to the satellite the channel is located.
But that is it. It never arrive there.
I am using a SG2100 motor drive to move my dish. It was working well when I was using my Coolsat 8000 receiver. But using the Ultra is giving me fits.
If any of you had this problem and figured a way around it, I sure will appreciate sharing with me on this. I am really stomped and ticked off with this problem. My Ultra has the latest FW that Rick installed when I bought it from him.
I put a post on Rick's forum hoping someone there will give me a solution on this problem. I trust this site and Rick's site as well.
Please help!

 

[AcWxRadar]

MrFTAMan,

Why on earth are you switching from USALS to DiSEqC 1.2 motor control in this way? If you have USALS working, use it exclusively.

If you don't like your signal quality readings when using USALS and can improve upon them by using DiSEqC 1.2, then you need to get out to your dish and work on your alignment.

I hate to sound hard nosed, but I am a staunch supporter of USALS and I know that it works well. Beyond just this, I know that the AZBox firmware does not appreciate it when we try to switch the modes around. It seems to confuse the satellite list at times. Therefore, I avoid doing this if at all possible.

I currently cannot utilize USALS when dialing in Hispasat @ 30.0°W as it is out of range for the USALS program to follow from my geographic location. Here, I have to use DiSEqC 1.2. I do not understand why this is so, but it must be one of the inherent limitations of USALS.

Now, if you wish to continue with your current method, I think you would benefit if you SAVED the channels that you found while the dish and motor are dialed in using USALS, and then switched over to DiSEqC 1.2 control. Then rescan if you like. It seems to make a difference if there are legit channels already in the list.

From my own experience, the difference between USALS and DiSEqC 1.2 gets very quirky with the AZBox. I have learned to live with it for now. My Coolsat 5K was not this way and I could do just about anything with it. You might have to simply accept this AZBox anomaly "as is" until the firmware catches up.

Regardless, I still think that if you tweak your dish and motor alignment, you will be able to utilize USALS with great satisfaction. Except for concerns with wind and weather, I have no problems with my AZBox using USALS. And I am achieving excellent signal quality readings from all the satellites across my horizon.

My dish wobbles in the wind a bit, but on a clear and calm day, I can get 96% to 98% signal quality on the majority of Ku sats from 30.0°W to 125.0°W. I attribute this all to the alignment of the dish, and I was simply and purely lucky to get it this way. I have even detected 100% Quality on an occasion, but I cannot always maintain it that good.

I don't think it is really mandatory to achieve the maximum signal quality on every satellite. The HD signals may be more picky than SD, but I don't seem to have any trouble with any signal unless the weather is involved.

You can disect my information and use what you need and discard the rest, but I will personally always recommend that the optimum dish alignment (including LNBF positioning and matching the LNBF to the dish) and using USALS is the best way to follow.

RADAR

 

[hd fan]

Another hard nosed here , lol. I rather fine tune the dish and use USALS. I have the same issue with 15W , with USALS is out of range but I can still move it there with DiseqC. I think it is because USALS does not go further than the electrical limit (65 degrees for Stab 90) but with DiseqC you can go fruther up to the mechanical limit of 70 degrees. Or is it 65 and 60?. I am using 5020 fw on P+ and after a few quirks at the begining (probably because I was learning how the AZ behaves) now it works flawllesly (well the vbox miscounts but probably due to no shielding of the sensor cable). I think soon you will learn the way the azbox behaves and find it very usefull even with diseqC but I would suggest using USALS instead. Besides with the digital signals you do not need to stretch it to 100% quality although in some cases squezing a bit more signal might be usefull one day when blind scanning.

Also, Have you powered it down lately?, it solves most problems than you think.

 

[GreatFTA]

Well, for some reason the USAL will get me close to the satellite. Seems like 4 degrees off. The Primestar dish is tracking great with the signal and quality high reading. I tried adjusting the dish at the mount left and right to get better signal but it didn't really help. So I put it back like it was. I resetted the SG2100 like its manual suggested. I set the Ultra back to factory reset and proceed the programming.
I have read that the members of this site had used the USAL to get to the location of the satellites and use the 1.2 to fine tune. That's the case with me.
It worked that way with my Coolsat 8000 and it kept the positions.The SG2100 has worked great with me for the last 3 years.
It got to be the way I am saving the settings in the Ultra. This receiver is a whole new beast to me and ain't like any of the FTA receivers I programmed.
In using the DiSeQc 1.2, I worked the satellite until I get the best signal possible. Then at the bottom commands I go over to the Save and click the AUTO. I do that on all the satellites. I haven't tried setting the satellites in the order of 1,2,3,etc... Maybe that is where I am messing up. And me rebooting after programming each satellite, I am assuming that it is like a computer that need rebooting after every resetting.

 

[GreatFTA]

I went back to look at the SG2100 manual, and it really doesn't say it is a USAL positioner. Maybe that is why it is not working right as far as the USAL is concern.
It is a Moteck SG2100 HH positioner with DiSEqC 1.2 capabilities. Also for receivers that has the GOTO X feature.
Reckon that is what my overall problem is, as far as how the USAL is concerned? And that I need to Save by positions 1,2,3, etc instead of AUTO?
Anybody who use SG2100 on their AZBox have any comment?

 

[AcWxRadar]

I went back to look at the SG2100 manual, and it really doesn't say it is a USAL positioner. Maybe that is why it is not working right as far as the USAL is concern.
It is a Moteck SG2100 HH positioner with DiSEqC 1.2 capabilities. Also for receivers that has the GOTO X feature.
Reckon that is what my overall problem is, as far as how the USAL is concerned? And that I need to Save by positions 1,2,3, etc instead of AUTO?
Anybody who use SG2100 on their AZBox have any comment?

It is.

I used the same motor for a long time, with many boxes. Using both USALs and DiSEqc 1.2 control. You may trust this motor, it is just fine.

I will try to be around the water cooler tomorrow if you would like to chat more. Right now, I need some sleep. Please excuse me for a few hours.

RADAR

 

[B.J.]

You can probably trust the MOTOR as far as USALS is concerned, however you can't trust ANY receiver to send the motor the proper USALS angle. This was discussed in a thread several months ago. Sorry, I forget the name of the fellow who was discussing this mainly with me, but he gave results for several receivers, and I also tried a couple receivers, and if I remember the thread correctly, all receivers were off significantly (but not by 4 degrees), particularly when the difference is longitude was great, ie if the sat is getting close to your horizon. Most receivers sent USALS angles that were pretty close for small to medium delta longitudes. That, plus, as has been discussed in another thread, the fact that the USALS zero can change in this SG2100 motor, you can get in situations where USALS will be off for ALL satellites. As I mentioned before, at one extreme, I had a situation where the zero position was off by something in the 10-15 degree range, which made ALL satellites off by 10-15 degrees when USALS was used. Because of this, I've always preferred to use diseqC, because I've always seemed to have a need to tweak positions. When my zero positions were off by significant amounts, I would do the hard reset that I described in other posts, and after that, USALS would work quite well (except at the high delta longitude values) for a while, but usually the motor would start to forget it's zero position little by little, and as it did this, I'd need to tweak positions a bit, which I do via diseqC-1.2, until the deviation got big enough to force me to go out and do another hard reset. If the positions were off by as much as 4 degrees, I would definately go out to the dish, manually move the motor to zero, then do a hard reset. I don't use my Azbox for diseqC-1.2 OR USALS, since I have it dedicated to my BUD, which I move via my Monty 50/55, so I don't know whether there is a problem with the Azbox implimentation or whether it's a user issue. But I do know that with any receiver I'm familiar with, that diseqC-1.2 is something I would not want to be without if I was controlling one of these small motors. USALS is nice in that it will get me to where I can lock the satellites, but diseqC-1.2 can get you peaked. Just my opinion.

 

[GreatFTA]

B J I found that thread late last night. And thank you for responding now. More than likely I will have to go with my BUD with my Ultra. I had no problems at all programming all the C Band channels on my BUD. The thing is, I don't want to go that route yet. Recently I moved my BUD and FTA systems to a better location for LOS reasons. Both dishes track excellently.
The Ultra is a excellent receiver, just a booger to program, as far as the D 1.2 is concern.
Last night I programmed the 97W and 125W satellites and it went back and forth great! Instead of Saving at AUTO in the Save Command Mode, I assigned 125W on P1 and 97W on P2.
I thought I got somewhere. BUT when I decided to program one more satellite before going to bed, disaster. Now I can't go to either 97W or 125W when I click on a channel on either one. When I click on a channel for 97W while I am on 125W, a box will appear showing that the dish is heading that way. Unfortunately it doesn't go there. And I can't go back to the channel on 125W I was watching. I got so pissed I gave up and went on to bed,
When I program the satellites from east to west do I need to program in the order the D 1.2 suppose to (i.e. say 97W on P1, 101W on P2, 103W on P3,...125W on P11) or does that make any difference at all?
To help understand what I am asking, let say I program 97W. I set my LNB, switch, etc, then I use USAL to go at the location of the satellite. I switch over to D 1.2, go east and west till I get the signal and fine tune for best signal. (all this while the Command Mode is in the Go To Position) then at the Command Mode I go to Save. At first, I would use the AUTO so it can place the 97W automatically where need to go. Then, I try to program another satellite, and do the same, using the AUTO in the Save Command Mode. Had problems there.
So I scrap everything by resetting the Ultra back to Factory Reset. This time around, when I get to the Save part. I assign each satellite to the 1,2,3... instead of the AUTO. Like I mentioned earlier, I assign 125W on P1 (P1 shows up on screen when I click Save letting me know the Ultra took setting) then I went over to 97W and save it on P2. When I tried for the 3rd satellite (103W) and save ir on P3, everything gets crazy.
The reason I am sharing the step by step method with you is I am hoping one of you will see where I am messing up and point that out to me.

 

[hd fan]

[/QUOTE] At first, I would use the AUTO so it can place the 97W automatically where need to go. Then, I try to program another satellite, and do the same, using the AUTO in the Save Command Mode. Had problems there.
[/QUOTE]

Auto does not do that IMO. It just assings position numbers automatically in ascending numerical order, it does not move the dish automatically. So if 6 months later you add another position using Auto it will automatically increase the position number once from the last one saved and use that one so you do not have to remember it or look for it on the sat list. Every sat that has a diseqC position already saved has the (PX) on their name added. Only way to erase it is to use the Resetting function and then Save again with another position number. No need to default the receiver to start from scartch.


[/QUOTE] The reason I am sharing the step by step method with you is I am hoping one of you will see where I am messing up and point that out to me[/QUOTE]

It almost sounds like it is offensive to share something with another human being (well depending on the something of course, lol), thanks once again for remainding me that I am still living among the most selfish and individualistic human beings. Wonder if I should call Air Canada and buy a no return flight ticket back to Cuba , lol. Forums like this exist , IMO, to share knowledge and ideas therefore enriching one each other , but well maybe I am just naive, lol.

Like I said before at the begining I felt frustrated like you and had lots of problems with DiseqC and Vbox setup but it works flawlesslly now with fw 5020. you almost have to find the routine that makes it work ok and just keep doing it the same way. Do not blind scan with diseqC enabled otherwise it sets the low limit. After saving the position just exit and proceed to the next sat then after you finish you can scan sats one by one, tedious but worked for me. Paraphrasing Neil Amstrong somehow (just watched a documentary on Apollo missions on the Uruguayan mux on Hispasat) 1 day for setting positions , several days for scanning, lol.

 

[GreatFTA]

Hd, I will try that technique you just mentioned. I do blindscan as soon I set the satellite programmed (with the D 1.2 enabled) and then I move on to another satellite. That may be the reason I am having so much trouble moving from one satellite to another. I remember while in the Command Mode I sometimes have to click on Disabling Limits to get the dish moving.
I will scrap everything and start over, using that technique.
I will let you know how that go...

 

[jsattv]

MrFTAman, you have had some great advice here. Just one other suggestion is that if you want to Finetune your dish from DISEqC 1.2, click on it & change the STEP SIZE to 4 or 2 or 1 and check the S & Q quality of a number of Tp's and adjust for the best Signal Quality. It works well, then you can set it back to Continue after you have fine tuned the Dish & Motor, and hit Save. You can also use this method for adjusting for other Satellites. I believe it was Anole who a couple of years ago had worked out or was working on a formula for how many Ticks or V Box Counts each Satellite was from each another. That is, to go from 97.0W over to 99.0W was about 10 - V Box III counts.

 

[GreatFTA]

Thanks Jsattv! I am working on that now. Got two satellites programmed, working on third.
Let you know how it is doing. I will not blindscan it till all satellites are programmed.
Thank you Guys for those tips!!! Keep em coming!

 

[B.J.]

....
Last night I programmed the 97W and 125W satellites and it went back and forth great! Instead of Saving at AUTO in the Save Command Mode, I assigned 125W on P1 and 97W on P2.
I thought I got somewhere. BUT when I decided to program one more satellite before going to bed, disaster. Now I can't go to either 97W or 125W when I click on a channel on either one. When I click on a channel for 97W while I am on 125W, a box will appear showing that the dish is heading that way. Unfortunately it doesn't go there. And I can't go back to the channel on 125W I was watching. I got so pissed I gave up and went on to bed,
When I program the satellites from east to west do I need to program in the order the D 1.2 suppose to (i.e. say 97W on P1, 101W on P2, 103W on P3,...125W on P11) or does that make any difference at all?
....

It shouldn't matter what order you save them in. I generally save my most watched sats first, then save the others. So that sounds strange to me that saving the 3rd sat messes up the first two. Does the setup still have those sats labeled as P1 and P2? Those positions are saved on the motor, not in the receiver, so if the receiver has it labeled as P1, it should go somewhere, even if the positions were messed up on the motor.
I wish that someone sold an inline device that would display the diseqC commands being sent, so that we could diagnose problems like this.

BTW, if you want to get even more confused about this, go read:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/azbox-discussion/206940-azbox-sg2100-dont-mix.html
A couple other possibilities show up in that thread, one of which is.... do duplicate sats pop up in your sat list? Perhaps your sat list has these sats in there twice, and it's using the wrong one when it tries to go to the sat?

 

[jsattv]

Thanks Jsattv! I am working on that now. Got two satellites programmed, working on third.
Let you know how it is doing. I will not blindscan it till all satellites are programmed.
Thank you Guys for those tips!!! Keep em coming!

MrFTMan, I have 2 more Sats ready to be reprogrammed, that is P01 which is now programmed on 97.0W, P02 = 99.0W, and P03 = 95.0W. I was going to try for my new Sat list first re Filezilla update, but maybe I'll experiment to see if 3 Sats will work on DISEqC1.2. Also as IceBerg has noted in previous posts that yellow circle indication appears saying moving to that particular Sat location as soon as you select without even clicking on another Satellite.

By the way when Blindscanning, the individual V and H scan seems to work the best (as you had noted) since I got 274 TV Channels with a few duplicates on 97.0W. It also scans much faster in this Mode then in ALL Polarities. I had posted a Thread re this on late Friday night, but someone deleted it - unless I did something wrong!! Thought this info would be useful info for other AZbox Premium Plus users.

Please let us know if your 3rd Sat works out.

 

[AcWxRadar]

MrFTAMan,

I really do wish that you could get your dish and motor aligned so that you could use USALS. You won't realize how excellent USALS truly is until then.

If you cannot go to any satellite within the range of USALS and have it land spot on - every time from either direction, then your dish and motor are not truly aligned. This is why you have to switch over to DiSEqC 1.2 to try to fine tune.

I believe that you may cure some of your other problems if you can use USALS.

I will simply leave you with that advice, and of course, my wishes for good luck.

RADAR

 

[GreatFTA]

Making progress!!!
I programmed all the satellites I wanted! I have not blind scan them yet. I really appreciate everyone of you for jumping in with your wisdom on this matter.
Programming the Ultra can be very perplexed! But I am slowly getting there. Of course I may go a few satellites then splat!!! here I go again.
I blindscanned AMC 21 but didn't let it scan in the channels. After all the TPs were scanned and saved, I then did the Satellite Scan and bought in the channels that way and saved them.
I noticed before if I allow the channels be scanned right after the TPs were saved, not all channels will be scanned in.
I never scan the H and V polarities separate. I leave on ALL and I uncheck the Scramble Channels unless I am on 97W. Some scrambled channels on that satellite are ITC.
Radar, I believe what you're saying. I would rather use USAL all the way but with what I got, I will have to live with it for now. Like I said earlier, my Primestar 1.2 dish is tracking wonderfully!
Let me get back to my project. Any other suggestions and hints are welcomed! I will keep you posted on this as I go on.

 

[AcWxRadar]

MrFTAMan,

Keeping in line with your current method, there is one alteration that I would try.

When you perform the blind scan, allow it to finish, completely and SAVE the channels found, if any, rather than opting to not save them.

Then later, delete all the channels from that particular satellite (if you feel that you must) and then rescan using the SATELLITE SCAN, TP SCAN or the ADVANCED SCAN mode. Whichever you prefer.

I just have a suspicion that when you tell the system not to save the channels after the blind scan that this is creating a problem.

I would simply experiment with it to determine if it makes a difference.

RADAR

 

[GreatFTA]

Ok, sure will.
I had to turn off the limits settings to let the Ultra go from one satellite to another.
Crazy...
Messed up on Satmex 5. It scanned the AMC 21 TPs! That's when I had to turn off the limits.
So far, I scanned 125W, 103W, and 105W satellites. Kinda worried that after all this scanning and programming all this could end up in vain...
If so, I will put a C/Ku lnb on my BUD and go with it all the way.

 

[jsattv]

Ok, sure will.
I had to turn off the limits settings to let the Ultra go from one satellite to another.
Crazy...
Messed up on Satmex 5. It scanned the AMC 21 TPs! That's when I had to turn off the limits.
So far, I scanned 125W, 103W, and 105W satellites. Kinda worried that after all this scanning and programming all this could end up in vain...
If so, I will put a C/Ku lnb on my BUD and go with it all the way.

That limit thing seems to constantly come up. Went to fine tune for 99.0W yesterday and I could see that the West Limit was on even though I wasn't wanting to selecting it. So I had to Reset it also before Blindscanning. Seems to happen in the process of trying to Save the V BoxIII setting - in my case for P02. One comment - the HD Channels ie ABC HD Net colour quality is spectular on 99.0W!!

 

[GreatFTA]

So far, so good! I blindscanned 5 satellites and bought in channels with no problem. At this point I can go to satellite to satellite with no problems. While I was going to one satellite to another to scan, I had to fine tune a little bit to get best signal. And I had to disable the limits a coupla times while going between satellites.
It ain't over yet, anything can happen before I get all the satellites scanned.
Yea, those HD channels come in super on my TV! Even tho the Ultra is a pain to work with, it is worth the money and time!!!
Keep yall posted...