FTA over cable?

[digiblur]

Analog format. Whatever. You knew what I meant.

But, they will have to remain analog for now, not QAM, unless they include the necessary digital receiver at no charge.

Sorry, no, I didn't know what you meant.

They do not have to remain analog. AFAIK, cable co's could go pure digital right now...now would the customers like it? probably not.

Just think if they were.. an 850 plant could have capacity for 270 pure non-bit starved 1920X1080i channels! Take that one D*!

Or we can figure it by D*'s HD-Lite standard....

135 channels/carriers * 40mbps = 5400mbps / 10mbps = 540 channels of HD-Lite

 

[GaryPen]

Actually, they couldn't go pure digital right now. Otherwise, they would, wouldn't they? They would love the extra revenue.

They are bound by their franchise agreements to provide local and public interest programming in a basic package that can be received without the need of an extra-cost converter box.

But, they are already slowly moving some national channels up to the digital tier. It's pissing off some people. But, that's the way it goes. I really don't think you will see a total digital conversion until there is no more analog OTA. (I forget the date for that, offhand.)

 

[kb7oeb]

They can but don't because its not to their advantage yet. They have a lot of analog only customers, converting them usually means giving away a costly box. They lose the selling point of free service on secondary tvs. And what do they need the bandwidth for right now today anyway?

I think they will continue to drop analogs as they need space. I think there might be a push to move some systems all digital by 2009 since there will be more HD then and they can blame the government since most people don't know any different.

Where I live the cable company is doing digital simulcast, if you have a cable box 100% of the channels are now digital. In one area of town that was never upgraded from 5xxMhz they dropped all the analog past channel 25 a couple years ago because they needed the space to do internet and phone. Customers in those areas get a box included even if they just have expanded basic.

 

[digiblur]

They also started doing simulcast here. Several garbage shopping channels/PI channels moved to digital only a while back to make room for more services.

 

[GaryPen]

They can but don't because its not to their advantage yet. They have a lot of analog only customers, converting them usually means giving away a costly box. They lose the selling point of free service on secondary tvs. And what do they need the bandwidth for right now today anyway?

I think they will continue to drop analogs as they need space. I think there might be a push to move some systems all digital by 2009 since there will be more HD then and they can blame the government since most people don't know any different.

Where I live the cable company is doing digital simulcast, if you have a cable box 100% of the channels are now digital. In one area of town that was never upgraded from 5xxMhz they dropped all the analog past channel 25 a couple years ago because they needed the space to do internet and phone. Customers in those areas get a box included even if they just have expanded basic.

2009 sounds about right. You should see them dropping channels of analog over the next year or two until all that's left is the basic "lifeline" channels. Then, probably sometime in 2009, as you say, maybe a little sooner, they might drop analog altogether. By that time, there will be very few analog-only customers that will need a costly-to-provide-but-free-to-the-consumer converter box.

They also started doing simulcast here. Several garbage shopping channels/PI channels moved to digital only a while back to make room for more services.

I'm all-digital myself. But, there are still around 70 analog channels hogging precious bandwidth.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

You guys are over looking one problem with your channel capacity estimates. CATV also wants to be the Internet, Video OnDemand, and Telephone business. All those services suck up bandwidth. Unless they employ some form of digital switching at a node, which would require a box for every TV, all that bandwidth gets consumed very quickly. Even with digital switching, they need seperate channels for each TV, phone and modem, in each home on that node.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

Then, probably sometime in 2009, as you say, maybe a little sooner, they might drop analog altogether. By that time, there will be very few analog-only customers that will need a costly-to-provide-but-free-to-the-consumer converter box.

Not even close. There is no way, there will be very few analog only customers, by 2009. 2005 was the first year HDTV sets out sold non-HDTV. That means there are still a huge majority of SD televisions in consumers homes. Only a very small percentage of homes with a HDTV set have ALL HDTV sets in their homes. It will take a minimum of 5-10 years before a majority of all TV's in all homes are digital ready.
CATV will switch to only digital before that, but have no illusion that most homes will be 100% digital.

 

[GaryPen]

That's why the cable company uses converter boxes. They're not going away. I will bet you a dollar there will be a bare minimum of analog channels on most cable systems by 2009, if any. I have no doubt at all.

 

[GaryPen]

You guys are over looking one problem with your channel capacity estimates. CATV also wants to be the Internet, Video OnDemand, and Telephone business. All those services suck up bandwidth. Unless they employ some form of digital switching at a node, which would require a box for every TV, all that bandwidth gets consumed very quickly. Even with digital switching, they need seperate channels for each TV, phone and modem, in each home on that node.

They are doing it now in my area. In fact, they've been doing it for a while. At this point, every analog channel dropped is increased digital bandwidth, without having to worry about losing it for HSI or VOIP.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

I did not disagree there will be few analog channels on cable in 2009, but you seem to give the impression they would do that because there would be few anolog only TVs left in 2009.

By that time, there will be very few analog-only customers that will need a costly-to-provide-but-free-to-the-consumer converter box.

It will be at least 5 years before the total number of SD TV's in the market falls below the number of HD TV's in consumes homes. The real important number is, how long until there is at least one HDTV in a majority of US homes, and then how long until there is a majority of home that are 100% HDTV. I think it will be another year before those numbers can be properly estimated. Any estimates now are going to be based on guessing.

 

[GaryPen]

Much fewer than now. That is for sure. Also, OTA analog will be completely gone as of Feb, 2009. So, those analog-only TV's will be pretty obsolete. (And, why should cable have to provide what broadcasters do not?)

 

[Splicer]

What are you guys talking about? The ONLY thing that is to happen in 2009 is that analog OTA will go bye-bye. That will have NO effect on cable customers (depending on the system who serves you) as MOST cable co's will indeed keep analog going for some time. The rules for OTA analog do NOT apply to a sealed system such as cable who can continue to keep broadcasting in analog.

 

[Todd Humphrey]

True, but CATV is hungry for all the bandwidth they can gain by switching to an all digital system. Most consumers mistakenly believe that the 2/09 deadline is for all TV and not just over the air. CATV will use that to their advantage and require customers to get set top boxes for all TV's.
I think CATV will over play their hand and piss a lot of people off. Satellite will gain some ground in the short term because people will get pissed. The fact that you need a box for satellite will not matter. I think both DTV and Dish will remove the additional outlet fee, making satellite cheaper because CATV will charge extra for their set-top boxes. They may give 1 or 2 free per home, but many homes have 3 and 4+ TV's. It will be interesting to how CATV and Satellite maneuver themselves to take advantage of the 2/09 switch.

 

[mdovell]

What are you guys talking about? The ONLY thing that is to happen in 2009 is that analog OTA will go bye-bye. That will have NO effect on cable customers (depending on the system who serves you) as MOST cable co's will indeed keep analog going for some time. The rules for OTA analog do NOT apply to a sealed system such as cable who can continue to keep broadcasting in analog.

Yes that is true to a point however how much demand is there really going to be for SD stations in a few years if there's already HD ones for them now? I get my locals in HD right now...there's no reason for sd to even be received as far as I'm concerned...they already eliminated PPV's from analog cable where I am years ago...I get the feeling the pay channels might go as well as it gradually switches over.....

 

[kb7oeb]

There are no scrambled analog channels on my local system anymore, if you want any premium you have to go digital.