General question about how signal loss manifests...

[Jimbo]

We are pre-wired - I wish Dish had been an option b/c I was able to get signal using a portable RV antenna before activating and finding out they don't have RSN's anymore (operator had told me they did). Plus it was no-contract & cheaper. Pole mount is what I ended up doing, so yep.

I hope your NOT signing up for D* based on "They have RSN's" because by this time next year they probably won't.

Looks at this time that RSNs are going under quickly ...
Most of the leagues that use RSN's are looking for different ways to have thier games covered ...

They probably won't be around for long.

 

[sealrock]

We are pre-wired - I wish Dish had been an option b/c I was able to get signal using a portable RV antenna before activating and finding out they don't have RSN's anymore (operator had told me they did). Pole mount is what I ended up doing, so yep.

I did sign up for RSNs & sports outside of RSNs, and it had sort of crossed my mind that something like that might happen, but it's only a 2 year contract. Surprised some tech company hasn't scooped up all major sports rights yet. Cross that bridge when we come to it - it's hard to imagine that's not the direction things are going. I actually hope something changes because the quality of the broadcasts isn't really acceptable in this day and age. YTTV was exacerbating what was already seemingly a bad quality feed. Where are you reading about DTV losing RSNs/RSNs going under?

I don't know why anyone would keep cable at this point for things besides sports. Quality of motion isn't important for watching Pawn Stars or watching talking heads bloviate. If I want to see the 1993 film Kalifornia there are a dozen different ways to watch it that won't be grainy or pixelated, and there won't be ads. Cable news is toxic to our society, and seems to be on the decline. Getting satellite was just an uneconomical way to get what still seemed to be the best quality feed for me for sports. If DirecTV wants to survive they'd probably have to go through a lean (i.e. unprofitable) decade to rebuild their business, drill down on exceptional quality of sports broadcasts that streaming won't match, compete heavily on price, too. Hard to imagine that happening, but I hope it does. If you just want cable news you can get Sling for $40 no contract, no hassle.

 

[Jimbo]

I did sign up for RSNs & sports outside of RSNs, and it had sort of crossed my mind that something like that might happen, but it's only a 2 year contract. Surprised some tech company hasn't scooped up all major sports rights yet. Cross that bridge when we come to it - it's hard to imagine that's not the direction things are going. I actually hope something changes because the quality of the broadcasts isn't really acceptable in this day and age. YTTV was exacerbating what was already seemingly a bad quality feed. Where are you reading about DTV losing RSNs/RSNs going under?

I don't know why anyone would keep cable at this point for things besides sports. Quality of motion isn't important for watching Pawn Stars or watching talking heads bloviate. If I want to see the 1993 film Kalifornia there are a dozen different ways to watch it that won't be grainy or pixelated, and there won't be ads. Cable news is toxic to our society, and seems to be on the decline. Getting satellite was just an uneconomical way to get what still seemed to be the best quality feed for me for sports. If DirecTV wants to survive they'd probably have to go through a lean (i.e. unprofitable) decade to rebuild their business, drill down on exceptional quality of sports broadcasts that streaming won't match, compete heavily on price, too. Hard to imagine that happening, but I hope it does. If you just want cable news you can get Sling for $40 no contract, no hassle.

Bally Sports and MSG RSN Are Reportedly Preparing For Bankruptcy

I didn’t know where to post this, I mean it does offer a online version and one of the reasons it is in trouble is because so many have left Live TV, only about 48 Million pay per sub fees for RSNs vs 100 million 9 years ago. So I will post it here-...

www.satelliteguys.us

Do you get the MLB package ?

Just before the season started, they were discussing IF games would actually be shown on the RSN's this year.
Some have confirmed they will THIS year, others haven't ben paid as of yet.

Its gonna be interesting.

 

[sealrock]

Bally Sports and MSG RSN Are Reportedly Preparing For Bankruptcy

I didn’t know where to post this, I mean it does offer a online version and one of the reasons it is in trouble is because so many have left Live TV, only about 48 Million pay per sub fees for RSNs vs 100 million 9 years ago. So I will post it here-...

www.satelliteguys.us

Do you get the MLB package ?

Just before the season started, they were discussing IF games would actually be shown on the RSN's this year.
Some have confirmed they will THIS year, others haven't ben paid as of yet.

Its gonna be interesting.

I wonder what will happen. Did not get MLB package. Only reason we really have cable is for local sports & local sports in postseason (Warriors & Giants), maybe some tennis. There's a whole planet of young people on Reddit etc grousing about how hard MLB makes it to watch games - attendance & the sport declining because it's too expensive to even watch. I am pretty sympathetic to this - seems like in the past a lot of games were broadcast free locally iirc (could be misremembering). They watch pirated streams instead (I guess not too different from 'free' broadcast, to be fair). I see a team like NHL Vegas Knights is going to go to that model, surely to try to build a fanbase. On the flipside, you could see Warriors rights going for enormous $ as they are even popular in China. I don't know much about how this sort of stuff gets sorted out.

 

[KyL416]

DirecTV will still provide the games, as they already had part time feeds ready to go in the 600s when Diamond's deadline to send payments to the Padres and Reds came down to the wire, along with the Guardians, Diamondbacks, Rangers and Twins who planned to invoke their escape clause if Diamond defaulted on another MLB team's payment. The plan for cable viewers was to have them air as regionalized MLB Network telecasts.

Also, only the Bally RSNs filed for bankruptcy. Even though Sinclair has interest in them, YES and Marquee are not part of the bankruptcy proceedings. The bankruptcy judge also stopped the Suns plan to leave Bally Arizona for Gray's AZ Family Sportsnet.

The AT&T branded RSNs that got sent to WB Discovery are being Zaslav'd with the rights reverting back to the teams after they pull the plug. The Golden Knights already struck a deal to air on KMCC in Vegas and other Scripps owned stations in their territory. The Mariners will probably get a chance to buy out WBD's minority interest in Root Sports Northwest if they want to keep it on air, or find a new broadcast partner. (This is not a bankruptcy situation, they're just among the many victims of Zaslav's tax writeoffs, like how he pulled the plug on a bunch of movies nearly finished with their post-production like Batgirl, killed the Degrassi and Boondocks reboots, refusing to air the already completed upcoming seasons of TNT's and TBS's scripted originals, purging series from streaming, linear broadcast and digital storefronts like iTunes so they no longer have to pay residuals, purging many international imports from HBO Max, etc)

The Comcast owned NBCS RSNs, including your Bay Area/California are safe as Comcast is the dominant cable operator in the areas their RSNs serve, although NBCS California will be losing the A's after they move to Vegas (where Cox is the dominant cable provider). The Spectrum Sportsnet stations are also safe as Charter is now the dominant cable provider in the Los Angeles area.

The team owned RSNs like SNY (minority owned by Charter and Comcast who both have cable systems in the greater NYC area), MSG, NESN, MASN, Altitude and the soon to be rebranded NBCS Washington are safe for now too.

 

[Jimbo]

So, what does that all mean for someone with the Extra Innings package to watch out of area teams ?
Would the EI package get whatever the team moves to feed ?

 

[KyL416]

Yes, Out of Market rights are held by the leagues and they require that the teams and broadcasters supply their feeds to the distributors of those out of market packages (DirecTV, Dish, and In Demand for digital cable). That's why we are able get feeds of channels DirecTV doesn't carry like TSN, Rogers Sportsnet and NBCS Philly, and when they still had Sunday Ticket, DirecTV's ability to offer NFL feeds and program the Fantasy and Red Zone channels weren't in any danger whenever they had a dispute with Fox or CBS.

i.e. Back in March when Diamond was on the verge of missing their payment to the Padres, a dedicated PADRES channel appeared in the guide for a few days on channel 694-3 and even had the season opener scheduled on it. If Diamond didn't make that last minute payment, their games would have aired on 694-3 for in market viewers, and the feed would have been remapped to one of Extra Innings channels in the 700s every time there's a game.

 

[videojanitor]

It is interesting to hear your impressions as someone with so much experience in this specific field. I wonder what it is I'm perceiving. I know it's something! I think it could be as simple as a sort of a pseudo-blur effect created by edges that are less defined (an unintended consequence perhaps of algorithms that are both removing artifacts, as you say - which I agree with, but also perhaps creating softer edges and, resultingly, a sort of a blur/ghost effect). I would be really interested to hear any other impressions from those who have done comparisons or decide to take that on. The general word around the internet is that people are very happy with how streaming quality compares to satellite, with many saying it beats satellite - though many seem happiest with it for other reasons than PQ alone. But there is also a whole class of gripers about various aspects of streaming PQ (mostly around artifacts), and it's not uncommon to see people saying DTV satellite still beats streaming. Tonight I watched 3/4 of a baseball game on satellite and am now finishing it on YTTV (because DTV receiver went kaput) - there are marked differences - some very positive for YTTV to my subjective eye, but I would still say a slight net negative - one thing I noticed off the bat was up close shots are distinctively less sharp/clear on YTTV, though not bad looking. And whatever thing is going on with fast motion I do see.

Sorry for the late reply but for some reason I didn't realize there were replies in this thread. I blame myself.

Anyway, I have no doubt you're seeing SOMETHING, though exactly what I cannot say. That's what makes this an interesting hobby -- everyone is a little different as far as what they perceive. It could be real, or imagined, but if YOU see it, then it's quite real to you.

Over the years working in pro video field, it was always strange to see some kind of problem, point it out to others, they didn't see it. There was nothing you could to do to MAKE them see it -- it's just the way their visual perception was tuned.

That said, going back to your original question, the "amount" of signal you receive from the satellite isn't going to have an impact on compression artifacts, or motion. As was mentioned by others, it's basically an all-or-nothing kind of thing -- as long as you have enough signal to avoid going over the cliff (i.e. large blocks of digital breakup), there will be no visual improvement from "more" signal. Any compression artifacts you see are "baked in" during the encoding process prior to transmission.