getting started with a BUD FTA+some a-la-carte C programming

Discussion in 'C-BAND Satellite Discussion' started by ravenbrk, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. ravenbrk

    ravenbrk Topic Starter Member

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    Back in the early 90's I had a big C-band dish that I had some a-la-carte programming on through NPS. I had tons of problems with it ranging from the polarity switch getting fried repeatedly, the motor/jack constantly needing calibrated, it freezing in the winter, etc. I also really HATED to sit and wait for the thing to move from one bird to the other (and my wife hated more than I did) especially since the mover often didn't put it in the right place and it had to be tweaked almost every time.

    I eventually went to DirecTV. Five years ago I moved to a new house and it had a 10.5' B.U.D. out in the back yard mounted on a 11' pipe. Some moron had cut the cable at the base of the pipe and I haven't ever gone to the expense of running a new satellite ribbon cable out there from the house.

    When I moved in, I had my DirecTV moved, and then later added the second dish for local programming. I have long since had my service disconnected due to the expense. Now I just do OTA broadcast TV. But there are several channels I would really love to get back.

    I've seen pictures in the past of people who have done mult-LNB setups to have a fixed dish but pick up multiple birds. That is what I would like to do. It will probably be summer before I have the time/money to invest in getting this setup, but I wanted to go ahead and start planning it now. Here is what I have:

    Two round DirecTV dishes, each with a dual LNB. (Also an old single DirecTV LNB)

    A 4x4 multiswitch from the DirecTV system (Eagle MS44D S-4040-PE, labeled 950-1450MHz, Outputs 1-4, Sat A in (13V & 18V), Sat B in (22khz) (13V & 18V)

    A 10.5' metal mesh dish on an 11' pole.
    It has a cover over the feedhorn so I'm not sure of the LNB and no visible markings, don't have a good way to get up to it right now to get the cover off.
    It has a long motor jack on it, but the only thing readily visible on it is a serial number which I believe reads 9112934.

    A Chaparral Monterey 30 with VideoCiper II decoder.

    Here is what I would like to do:
    I want to subscribe to some a-la-carte packages through NPS again, like the Disney Channel for the Kids and SyFy and DIY for me. I believe all those are available on Galaxy 14. I then want to do a multi-LNB ofset arm to point some KU LNBs at some popular Ku FTA birds AND/OR use the old DirecTV dish/LNB to point to the bird that I read last night on the forum has circular polarity feeds for ION, NASA, and something else that I now forget...

    What I don't understand from digging around on the forums here and pouring over Lyngsat is what kind of receiver(s) I need to be able to do that. Will my old Chaparral Moneterey 30 do the paid programming still or have they changed their encoding/encryption so much since that receiver was born that I'll have to have something different? Is there a single receiver out there that I can use to buy programming from some place like NPS for these channels as well as handle the FTA channels like the glorystar channels and etc?

    Also is that old 4x4 switch going to be of any value at all?

    Thanks in advance for any and all guidance anyone can provide. I'll attach some photos in case that helps.

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    (If the attachments don't work, you can view them HERE.
     
  2. mmewrench

    mmewrench SatelliteGuys Pro

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    need a new receiver

    C band is all digital now, but your receiver is analog. It will move the dish and may pick up an occaisional feed here and there, but you will need a 4dtv receiver to get what you want (motorola or GI dsr 905, 920, 922).
     
  3. mmewrench

    mmewrench SatelliteGuys Pro

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    The channels you want are not available ala carte from nps (I just spoke to them recently). They are available as part of a package on W5 (AMC18), from skyvision I believe. The nasa channel is available on AMC3 C band with any dvb receiver. If I were you, I would find a dsr 905 which will work with your chaparral receiver to pick up those subscription channels. In addition get a dvb receiver for the free channels like nasa, Ion, etc. The chaparral receiver will move the dish to any satellite in the arc, and the c band signal is not affected by rain like the little dish ( unless a huricane blows the dish away).
     
  4. tvropro

    tvropro On Vacation

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    SyFy is on W5, DIY is on C3, Disney is on G5 (G-14) but we can't subscribe to it. You can sub to Disney XD on W5 though. You need a 4DTV, DSR 905, 920 or 922 for the channels you want to sub to. You can get the channels through either NPS or Skyvision & SRL. C band still has the best picture and prices.
     
  5. ravenbrk

    ravenbrk Topic Starter Member

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    mmewrench & tbropro,

    Thanks for your responses. I'll admit I'm a bit comfused.

    You both indicate that (some of) the subscription channels I want are on W5, yet according to Lyngsat, w5 is only visible in Europe (and I'm in midwest U.S.A). mmewrench said "W5 (AMC18)", but Lyngsat doesn't say anything about AMC18 having SyFy or Disney XD. So is Lyngsat wrong/out-of-date?

    Also, any thoughts on my other question about having the big dish in a fixed location with multiple ku LNBs for multiple FTA birds? I've seen photos like this one of where people have done this a lot in Europe, and I seem to recall seeing a photo of someone here in the states that had done it on a Big Dish, but I can't find it now.

    Thanks!
     
  6. tvropro

    tvropro On Vacation

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    Look here for AMC 18 (W5) 105 W:

    http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/hitsamc18.html

    On a 4DTV, W5 600 is Disney XD, SyFy is 642.

    You can do all kind of things with multiple feeds on dishes, let your imagination go wild. There have been all kind of home brew mods done by Satellite Guys. :)
     
  7. melgarga

    melgarga SatelliteGuys Pro

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    W5 is the 4DTV designator for the source of programming that is beamed down from 105°W aka AMC15/18. The 4DTV family of IRDs is the successor and sole heir of home TVRO C band subscription service. Authorization of individually owned VC II modules was shut down just a little over a year ago, hence no more analog sub services.
    The Digicipher 2 (DCII) encryption is the digital signal counterpart to our now useless VCII modules that were used for analog signal encryption. Licensing for DCII is held exclusively by Motorola (bought from GI) and consumer subs in the USA must use a 4DTV IRD (built by Motorola/GI) like the DSR905, 920, 922 or the lesser known subscription programing service that uses the DSR410.

    The DSR410 service essentially takes an IRD that was originally for Ku DCII service and re-purposes it to be subbed to a single position (W5@105°W) DCII broadcasts. Skyvision offers the IRD (and complete pkg if needed) for those interested in "trouble free" C band sub service. Take a look at the packaging/cost as this may satisfy your sub needs. The main drawback to using a 410 vs a legacy 4DTV IRD is that it is locked to W5 programming, unlike the others that allow hunting for and watching other DCII but otherwise considered FTA channels and programming.
    To summarize, your ol' Chappy is now relegated to dish positioning and polarity control duties only, with the occasional capture of unencrytped analog programming you might luck accross.

    As for the other digital (FTA) C and Ku broadcasts, a receiver capable of DVB-S (or DVB-S2) mode is needed. DVB-S2 is the nextgen itteration of DVB-S which allows for more data withing a given bandwidth. The HD content is already taking advantage of this mode, and it is expected to eventually be adopted by the SD tranmissions sources to cram more content into a given bandwidth. Currently DVB-S still handles the lions share of FTA programming. It is my understanding that HD FTA content is exclusively using DVB-S2, although you would need to consult someone that does HD FTA to verify that.

    For optimum DVBS/S2 signal viewing, you will need to be able to position to multiple orbital locations. IOW, choosing the DRSR410 service may give you what you want for your sub needs, but if you intend to utilize C band (and Ku if your BUD has both LNBs) for DVB-S/S2 you will want the convienence of a motorized system with polarity control, so hang on to the Chappy! There are other solutions using a V/G box to control position and using an LNBF that switches polarity using a voltage level rather than a mechanical servo, however both "remedies" incur add'l cost and equipment.

    EDIT - A Ku motorized system can be added to the mix as well which can be natively controlled by most DVB boxes without any add'l positioning or polarity control equipment.
    Limited C band reception can be realized as well on these smaller dishes with the proper LNBF on a large (3-4') dish, but 2° sat spacing becomes an issue and desired signals are offten interfered with by adjacent satellites in the small dish's beamwidth.

    Your DTV dishes are not large enough or compatable with the linear mode (vs circular used by DN,DTV,Bell) transmission of FTA signals.

    I hope that helps clear up some of your questions.
     
    #7 melgarga, Jan 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2010
  8. Dannymcenrow

    Dannymcenrow SatelliteGuys Guru

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    Disney channel is not available on C band for subscription.
    That'sm why I still have to pay for cable.
    You can get Disneyxd but they don't have Hanna Montana theshow kids cannot go without.
    Plus C band is not like back in the day.
    Because most people with cband went for the small dishes and now there are only a few of us left.
    So most channels are Re-uplinks like the small dishes do it.
    Not master feeds like there were before.
    Also the only receivers being made for this is the Motorola 4dtv but they don't make them anymore and if you buy it used the chances are big that you're gonna find one with a deadbattery and no unit ID.
    I have 4dtv because my sister gave me it for free but if I had to buy it I wouldn't.
    More and more channels are leaving C band because of the low volume of subscribers and it looks like everything is coming to an end.
    Because the subscription companys like NPS now has to re-uplink the channels themselves and with the amount of subs they have they can't even cover the cost of uplinking so they sell dishnet and other stuff to be able to cover that but I guess they won't go on likethat for long
     
  9. lonewolf454

    lonewolf454 SatelliteGuys Pro

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    Channels on G3 and W5 are re-uplinked, all others are masters I believe. W5 picture quality is very good quality. Satellites such as C3, G1, etc picture quality, though SD, looks as good as dishnet HD.

    There are some analogs left, they arent all gone, but may be of no interest to you, but are good for tweaking dish. You can get these with the old ird.
    Shepherds Chapel, INSP, ShopNBC, HSN/QVC, Fox feeds, probably a few more.

    I bought a 4dtv via ebay, havent had any problems. You just need to verify it has a good id number before buying it and make sure it hasnt been uplugged too long, that kills the battery. Go for a newer unit if possible (motorolas, not GI's)

    Good luck.
     

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