GOES 16 GRB downlink vs GVAR

[N6BY]

The only way to tell with certainty would be to try a known working device (TBS6983, TBS6903 or a TBS5925).

I thought the only difference with the TBS5927 over the TBS5925 was the addition of a fan. So I wouldn't give up on the 5927. Very likely that the problem is your signal quality.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

The only way to tell with certainty would be to try a known working device (TBS6983, TBS6903 or a TBS5925).

TBS 6983, 6903 as cards if I could even get them, would only be able to do recordings because I have no computer with PCI slots with Win 10.
TBS5925 Is not made anymore.

I thought the only difference with the TBS5927 over the TBS5925 was the addition of a fan. So I wouldn't give up on the 5927. Very likely that the problem is your signal quality.

No, there's a difference in the drivers. I think there is a difference in the chipsets as well.
I have already determined that when KWX commented on the lock lights of his 5925.

I can't get just the signal quality up, with a 8.5 C/N signal I again should have had several good BBF's. The receiver has problems and I don't recommend it for use on GRB. (My suggestion)

 

[KWX]

Hi guys, GOES-S (17) will soon service N6BY .

Being trying to receive both RHCP and LHCP but no go. Using a 1/2 wavelength from the back of the can killed the signal. I'll be trying soon the option of adding two LNAs prior to getting to the two ZX10Q combiners.

 

[KWX]

TBS 6983, 6903 as cards if I could even get them, would only be able to do recordings because I have no computer with PCI slots with Win 10.
TBS5925 Is not made anymore.



No, there's a difference in the drivers. I think there is a difference in the chipsets as well.
I have already determined that when KWX commented on the lock lights of his 5925.

I can't get just the signal quality up, with a 8.5 C/N signal I again should have had several good BBF's. The receiver has problems and I don't recommend it for use on GRB. (My suggestion)

In regards the TBS 5925, I get a lock with it, but the green lock light never lights up for some reason. Interesting enough, the TBS give me better SNR than the DD by .3 to .5 dB. Hopefully the DD card is not starting to go bad.

A note on the DD card, at times (specially during the hottest part of the day) the signal quality could at times get into the 10s but it still performs, so it might be good to give it a shot. Check Amazon, I know they have cheap refurbished Win10 PCs that have PCIe slots you can use with a low profile brackets that would typically come with the TBS card... just a thought since you don't need a high powered systems for streaming application.

Do you think GOES-17 will give you the signal quality you need?

 

[N6BY]

We have liftoff! Looking forward to a stronger signal here in California.

 

[N6BY]

...
Do you think GOES-17 will give you the signal quality you need?

I think you are asking Tim, but I will respond also.

When its in its final position of 135 degrees longitude, it will be only 14 degrees west of me. GOES-EAST is 46 degrees east. Thats a big difference, and I'm guessing its going to be about 3 dB stronger.

However, it is not scheduled to replace the current GOES-WEST until September. Not sure where they are going to park it during its test period? Anyone know?

 

[KWX]

I think you are asking Tim, but I will respond also.

When its in its final position of 135 degrees longitude, it will be only 14 degrees west of me. GOES-EAST is 46 degrees east. Thats a big difference, and I'm guessing its going to be about 3 dB stronger.

However, it is not scheduled to replace the current GOES-WEST until September. Not sure where they are going to park it during its test period? Anyone know?

Actually the final position will be 137 deg. I won't be surprised if it parks at 89.3 just like GOES-16 for checkout.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

Being trying to receive both RHCP and LHCP but no go. Using a 1/2 wavelength from the back of the can killed the signal.

Just remember that by what you're doing splits the signal by 2 and has a loss of 3 dB. It will reduce the signal by some.

Hopefully the DD card is not starting to go bad.

That's a small change in signal and I wouldn't worry about it. If it changes by several dB then I would be concerned. Electronics and software other variables can cause a difference that much, again don't worry unless it's by more then a dB over a long period of time.

Question for ya KWX, Are you using the TBS driver for that 5925?
I think crazycat made one for it as well with his crazyscan.

I can keep that in mind but I may also go a different route then that, I'm keeping my options open.
I trying to stick with a separate receiver from the computer.

Do you think GOES-17 will give you the signal quality you need?

My signal is as strong as yours there KWX... That's what I've been saying. That's the difference of the two receivers. I got plenty of signal but the receiver is dropping the BBF's. It's the receiver's problem not an antenna issue.
Keep in mind that Brett got even with a weak weak signal (by about 1.5 dB C/N less) BBF's from his card and data. That's saying something.
My TBS receiver is not set up for generic stream, even though TBS claims it to be. It's more geared towards MPE.
Unfortunately I had to find out the hard way.

I am also going to pose this question..
On my NOAAPORT station the BER will scroll up if the signal gets degraded resulting in data loss.
Here's the question,
Why is it with the generic stream that even though you have no DVB-S2 BER's that there's bad BBF's?
In other words, how come you see no errors on the error rate on the outer layer DVB-S2 but have errors on the inner layer, It makes no sense.
Unless you're having hardware errors/drops.

We have liftoff! Looking forward to a stronger signal here in California.

....And lot of cool stuff to go with it.

Not sure where they are going to park it during its test period? Anyone know?

I won't be surprised if it parks at 89.3 just like GOES-16 for checkout.

The schedule will be out soon with the details, as soon as I see it I will post it here. It takes several weeks for it to even get to geostationary orbit.
My thought is it will be farther west but KWX may be right as well, we'll see as the info becomes available.

 

[N6BY]

Actually the final position will be 137 deg. I won't be surprised if it parks at 89.3 just like GOES-16 for checkout.

You're right, 137 not 135. Wishful thinking on my part I guess.

If its parked at 89.3, that should be significantly closer to Tim -- only about 4 degrees longitude.

...
My TBS receiver is not set up for generic stream, even though TBS claims it to be. It's more geared towards MPE.
Unfortunately I had to find out the hard way. ...

I respectfully disagree. If it wasn't set up for generic stream then we would not be seeing the BB Frame headers in the file dump. Also, TBS Recorder indicates on the panel 'GENERIC_CONTINUOUS_STREAM' and MA Type of 71 00, both of which are correct.

That being said, while they may have intended to support generic stream, it does not mean that their driver implementation is bug free. Or maybe you got a bad unit that is less error tolerant.

...
I am also going to pose this question..
On my NOAAPORT station the BER will scroll up if the signal gets degraded resulting in data loss.
Here's the question,
Why is it with the generic stream that even though you have no DVB-S2 BER's that there's bad BBF's?
In other words, how come you see no errors on the error rate on the outer layer DVB-S2 but have errors on the inner layer, It makes no sense.
Unless you're having hardware errors/drops....

I think the TBS BER indication is faulty -- always reports no errors.

At a lower level than BB Frames are XFEC Frames. These contain the forward error correction data together with the BB Frames. I believe that the TBS driver simply discards data without notice if it contains an unrecoverable FEC error.

 

[KWX]

Just remember that by what you're doing splits the signal by 2 and has a loss of 3 dB. It will reduce the signal by some.



That's a small change in signal and I wouldn't worry about it. If it changes by several dB then I would be concerned. Electronics and software other variables can cause a difference that much, again don't worry unless it's by more then a dB over a long period of time.

Question for ya KWX, Are you using the TBS driver for that 5925?
I think crazycat made one for it as well with his crazyscan.

I can keep that in mind but I may also go a different route then that, I'm keeping my options open.
I trying to stick with a separate receiver from the computer.



My signal is as strong as yours there KWX... That's what I've been saying. That's the difference of the two receivers. I got plenty of signal but the receiver is dropping the BBF's. It's the receiver's problem not an antenna issue.
Keep in mind that Brett got even with a weak weak signal (by about 1.5 dB C/N less) BBF's from his card and data. That's saying something.
My TBS receiver is not set up for generic stream, even though TBS claims it to be. It's more geared towards MPE.
Unfortunately I had to find out the hard way.

I am also going to pose this question..
On my NOAAPORT station the BER will scroll up if the signal gets degraded resulting in data loss.
Here's the question,
Why is it with the generic stream that even though you have no DVB-S2 BER's that there's bad BBF's?
In other words, how come you see no errors on the error rate on the outer layer DVB-S2 but have errors on the inner layer, It makes no sense.
Unless you're having hardware errors/drops.



....And lot of cool stuff to go with it.




The schedule will be out soon with the details, as soon as I see it I will post it here. It takes several weeks for it to even get to geostationary orbit.
My thought is it will be farther west but KWX may be right as well, we'll see as the info becomes available.

I'm using the latest drivers from TBS. I'll try the only BDA drivers I was able to find (11/02/2014, 1.0.0.2) and see how it works out.

 

[KWX]

A little pic showing GLM in action after finally getting the AWIPSII upgraded to version 17.2.1:

Since it's getting dark, then the channels used to build the RGB composite tend to darken image (more than what I would had hoped), but you can still see the lightning strikes showing up in the developing Northeastern.

 

[KWX]

By the way, so far so good with CrazyBDA drivers. I'm now able to see a lock light on the TBS5925, being able to see that the drivers does allow the TBS to recover from brief signal degradation(s) a lot quicker, but will see how it fairs after 48hrs which is about the longest I've been able to get a continuous stream without the need to reset the coax.

Interesting enough, GRBStreamer now shows the wrong device assignments after installing CrazyBDA, just like the ones I experienced when the Hauppauge was present on my other test system. I won't be surprised if indeed the streaming dll calls could be returning mismatch items to GRBStreamer.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

Also, TBS Recorder indicates on the panel 'GENERIC_CONTINUOUS_STREAM' and MA Type of 71 00, both of which are correct.

Ok, I will give you 50/50 agreement. They did say that it could capture those special streams not decode them. Yes, it does ID the BB Frame headers properly as stated.

That being said, while they may have intended to support generic stream, it does not mean that their driver implementation is bug free. Or maybe you got a bad unit that is less error tolerant.

I can agree with that, as the drivers can have issues. I'm having a much harder time believing that this unit is less error tolerant. But anything could be possible.
You know what the disappointing part is, that these receivers could/can do a lot. It's a shame that the drivers are not open so that they could be added to and updated to support these different options with out relying on TBS to do it. But I know if that was the case then TBS would had issues remaining in bis. along with other problems.

I think the TBS BER indication is faulty

That is an interesting theory. Wonder if it had something to do with having to write much more code to detail/display it.

I wonder if the same is true for the DD Cline card?

At a lower level than BB Frames are XFEC Frames. These contain the forward error correction data together with the BB Frames. I believe that the TBS driver simply discards data without notice if it contains an unrecoverable FEC error.

Brett, if I'm not mistaken there is FEC built into the DVB-S2 outer layer.
Stated in the PUG that the BCH Error correction is provided by the transport layer DVB-S2.
The transport layer is the DVB-S2 layer.
Also according to the PUG, the XFEC Frame is above the BB Frame, It's just under the physical layer. BB Frames are inside of the XFEC Frames
The CADU Frames are under the the BB Frames..
There is an Frame Error Control Field in the AOS Transfer Frame.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

I'm using the latest drivers from TBS. I'll try the only BDA drivers I was able to find (11/02/2014, 1.0.0.2) and see how it works out.

Only the BDA driver is available for the 5927 in Windows, don't know about Win 10 driver.

By the way good job on the GLM. Nice.

By the way, so far so good with CrazyBDA drivers. I'm now able to see a lock light on the TBS5925, being able to see that the drivers does allow the TBS to recover from brief signal degradation(s) a lot quicker, but will see how it fairs after 48hrs which is about the longest I've been able to get a continuous stream without the need to reset the coax.

Glad I suggested it, hope it keeps working for you.

 

[N6BY]

Its too quiet here so I thought I'd say something.

If anyone is interested, here is where you can track GOES-S: Real time satellite tracking for: GOES S It is supposed to be gradually settling into a geostationary orbit at 89.5 degrees for 6 months of testing.

Meanwhile, I have ordered some copper sheeting and am going to build a new septum feed. It will be cylindrical and much lighter than my current square one. Cylindrical feeds are supposed to be better at illuminating circular dishes (vs. square feeds).

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

Its too quiet here so I thought I'd say something.

Ya, It has been. I haven't got too much to add as I'm waiting for now June - July for any more info about a receiver from Novra that I suggested.
Otherwise It's been research and more research send an email, then wait.
So not much to change here anytime in the near future.

at 89.5 degrees for 6 months of testing.

Ahh, KWX was right about the GOES S test position.

If you need any tips for making the waveguide I'll offer what I can.
If you have soldered copper piping then you should have no problem with this.

 

[KWX]

Hi guys, being testing LNAs and multiple configurations, but still at it, so not done yet.

Just a quick note, the TBS receiver along with Crazy's BDA driver has being so far given me longer lasting reception than with the DD drivers, under adverse weather and or "man made scenarios", but is just a preliminary observation since I'm still testing.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

So I assume you are getting constant stream a images there KWX?
As again some of the dropout issues are not yours as I saw a couple of bulletins of the GRB stream having some tech issue and some channel striping issues for a short time.
One of the benefits of having a direct readout system is any issues that effect the satellite effect everyone getting the data, as a result the fix is usually quick as the data loss effects the models and forecasts.
Also with this being the hi res data, downtime is not an option unlike LRIT/HRIT and EMWIN for the above reason.

 

[GOES 12 GVAR user]

Brett, I have a question for you.
In the case of your TBS card receiver and the CCLine card receiver, what output do those put out from the receiver that you streamer software is looking for?
Is it BB Frames or something different?

 

[N6BY]

CCLine card receiver? Do you mean the Digital Devices receiver?

Anyway, GRBStreamer expects either BBFrames or (in the case of the Digital Devices card) BBFrames enclosed within a transport stream (TS). If its the latter, GRBStreamer has to strip off the transport stream bytes and use the remaining data to construct BBFrames.

What Digital Devices does is unique, and I am willing to bet that no other card or USB receiver puts BBFrames inside a transport stream. With satellite TV its the other way around -- the transport stream is inside BBFrames. For TV watching, the card or driver strips the BBFrame header and just sends the transport stream to the video player software.

... Am currently waiting for a piece of copper sheet to arrive so I can attempt construction of a new septum feed.