Got my 921 Today Woo Hoo!

Claude Greiner

Claude Greiner

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Sep 8, 2003
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I finally got my 921 yesterday and it seems to be working pretty good :)

Hoever im having some problems setting the receiver on the proper aspect ratio for my Tv. I currently have a 4x3 Sony HDTV Wega television with the 16x9 enhanced on Video 5 and Video 6. Basically what the 16x9 enhanced feature does is force a letter box screen on component video imputs putting the full 1080 lines of resolution in the 16x9 area instead of the full 4x3 screen.

If im watching HD and setup the 921 with 1080i outputs and say I have a 16x9 screen the picture fits fine and the setup works great, however if I try to watch standard Definition then its still in letterbox and I have to switch to the SD outputs which the picture looks distourted until I tell the 921 I have a 4x3 HDTV set.

Anyone have any idea if this is a bug, or am I not setting something right?
 
T

Tahoerob

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Claude Greiner said:
I finally got my 921 yesterday and it seems to be working pretty good :)

.............

Have you tried setiing up the OTA channels yet??
Any bugs with that??
Does the 8vsb OTA tuner seem to work well??
 
tnsprin

tnsprin

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Sep 27, 2003
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Claude Greiner said:
I finally got my 921 yesterday and it seems to be working pretty good :)

Hoever im having some problems setting the receiver on the proper aspect ratio for my Tv. I currently have a 4x3 Sony HDTV Wega television with the 16x9 enhanced on Video 5 and Video 6. Basically what the 16x9 enhanced feature does is force a letter box screen on component video imputs putting the full 1080 lines of resolution in the 16x9 area instead of the full 4x3 screen.
quote]
:evil: Well at least I'm on a list.

Not sure what the controls are to control aspect on the 921, but the problem described is common on the Sony with other HD tuners. One suggestion is try switching to 480P. I that doesn't work check with Mark over on DBSTALK. Perhaps he has it figured out.
 
B

BarryO

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Oct 11, 2003
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Claude Greiner said:
I finally got my 921 yesterday and it seems to be working pretty good :)

:evil: Grrrrrr, lucky SOB. :evil: ;)

However im having some problems setting the receiver on the proper aspect ratio for my Tv. I currently have a 4x3 Sony HDTV Wega television with the 16x9 enhanced on Video 5 and Video 6. Basically what the 16x9 enhanced feature does is force a letter box screen on component video imputs putting the full 1080 lines of resolution in the 16x9 area instead of the full 4x3 screen.

If im watching HD and setup the 921 with 1080i outputs and say I have a 16x9 screen the picture fits fine and the setup works great, however if I try to watch standard Definition then its still in letterbox and I have to switch to the SD outputs which the picture looks distourted until I tell the 921 I have a 4x3 HDTV set.

Anyone have any idea if this is a bug, or am I not setting something right?

This is common problem reported by people that have these 4x3 sets. This is not a bug in the 921.

Remember that, when your TV does a "vertical squeeze", the black bars on the top and bottom are put there by the TV, and under the TV's control.

This looks OK when viewing a 16x9 HD channel, as the 921 puts out 1080i in 16x9 wihich the TV faithfully puts on the screen with black spaces above and below. However, when you switch to an SD channel, the 921 is still putting out a 1080i signal. Your TV sees the 1080i timing and automatically adds the black spaces above and below. There is nothing the 921 can do about them. The 921 only has control over the 16x9-shaped area inbetween these two black spaces. Unless you can set up your TV in a mode where it doesn't do the vertical squeeze when it sees a 1080i signal, the spaces will be there when the 921 is in HD output mode.
 
Claude Greiner

Claude Greiner

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Actually if you put the 921 in 480P it over rides the 16x9 enhanced mode and will fill the entire screen.

I guess the question would be this, if your watching your 921 in 480P is it downconverting the HDTV programming from 1080i to 480P?

I can't seem to tell the difference :)
 
H

HokieEngineer

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Oct 13, 2003
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Hi,

I have a zenith 4:3 hdtv, here is how i watch programming from my 6000 :)

1. If I want to watch HD, I pick my tv's 1080i-HD input. Then I put it on 16:9 mode. There are letterbox bars (which is expected and everything works)

2a. Flip to a SD chan while watching hd. I leave my tv's settings alone, make sure the 6000 is outputting in normal mode (not stretch). The picture is "small" (it has black bars on top, bottom, left, right) but is correctly displayed.

2b. Flip to a SD chan while watching hd. Put tv back to "normal" mode, put 6000 into stretch mode, picture fills screen. Usually the 6000 remembers to go into stretch mode automatically on SD programming, so i just change the tv's setting.

3. If i'm just watching SD chans, pick s-video input on tv, set 6000 into SD mode. Better PQ in my opinion.



I know this is all for the 6000, but hopefully you can use the ideas and get the settings for the 921. I would use the s-video out or whatever input for SD programming and bypass the dvi. switch to your hd input whenever watching hd programming. Hope this helps.
 
Scott Greczkowski

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I agree, the official HDTV Spec is 16 x 9. Not 4 x 3.

If you want to watch HDTV the way it is meant to be seen you need a 16x9 screen, or you need to watch it letterboxed to fit the origional aspect ratio. (And on a 4x3 screen doing this it means almost half of your screen would be blank displaying black bars.)

Sounds like the 921 has the same issues the 811 did when it first came out. I am also sure it will be fixed soon. :)
 
H

HokieEngineer

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Hey not all of us have piles of cash lying around. I bought what I could afford and it works perfect for me. Sure the picture is not as large as 4:3 programming on my tv, but it still wow's the ---- outta everyone that comes over. Anyways, I hope my suggestions help you claude, it IS possible to watch hd on a 4:3 monitor without too much trouble :)
 
Claude Greiner

Claude Greiner

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Well I did have a 6000 connected to my Sony before, and I just toggled between Video 4 and Video 5 if I wanted to watch HD.

But the reason why I got a 4x3 is for the following reasons...

#1 This is in a bedroom, a 16x9 set just wouldn't look right

#2 I do a Majority of my Tv watching in 4x3 anyways, so it makes more sense to have a 4x3 set.

#3 I prefer to watch HDTV in letterbox, instead of having to strech a 4x3 picture to fit a 16x9 Screen.

#4 I do have a 16x9 Sony HDTV in my living room :)
 
T

Tahoerob

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Claude Greiner said:
Well I did have a 6000 connected to my Sony before, and I just toggled between Video 4 and Video 5 if I wanted to watch HD.

But the reason why I got a 4x3 is for the following reasons...

#1 This is in a bedroom, a 16x9 set just wouldn't look right

#2 I do a Majority of my Tv watching in 4x3 anyways, so it makes more sense to have a 4x3 set.

#3 I prefer to watch HDTV in letterbox, instead of having to strech a 4x3 picture to fit a 16x9 Screen.

#4 I do have a 16x9 Sony HDTV in my living room :)
so what you are really saying is that you need TWO 921s!!!!!!!
 
Mark_AR

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Tahoerob said:
so what you are really saying is that you need TWO 921s!!!!!!!

Or a 922. Dual HDPVR.

Mythical beast? Maybe for now. You never know. We all have dreams. ;)
 
TheForce

TheForce

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So the second one to report receiving a 921 doesn't even have a 16x9 HDTV to watch it on.

Life's like a box of.... you know the rest.

Hey have fun with your 921. You are probably the first to get one that is not under NDA. I wonder who will get the third one being shipped this year, Scott?
 
M

markdl

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Sep 8, 2003
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Claude Greiner said:
Actually if you put the 921 in 480P it over rides the 16x9 enhanced mode and will fill the entire screen.

I guess the question would be this, if your watching your 921 in 480P is it downconverting the HDTV programming from 1080i to 480P?

I can't seem to tell the difference :)

Claude,

If you have the 921 set to 480p, it does downconvert 1080i material to 480p before sending out to your TV.

There are still some annoyances with some of the 921s aspect ratio stuff that is supposed to be working better with L1.43 when it comes off the satellites the week of the 5th.
 
TheForce

TheForce

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Mark- I suppose with CES coming up the week of the 5th that we should not expect to see any major shipping of the 921 until after that week and more likely sometime toward the end of January. Originally I thought you said the new software would be coming the first. Must be more problems with it that it is being delayed again????
 
B

BarryO

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Oct 11, 2003
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Claude Greiner said:
I guess the question would be this, if your watching your 921 in 480P is it downconverting the HDTV programming from 1080i to 480P?

I can't seem to tell the difference :)

There a several possible reasons for this:

--The 4x3 "HD" sets don't have anywhere near the resolution that alot of their owners think they do. Most point out that the TV's do a "vertical squeeze" on the vertical scan in 1080i, thus "using all 1080 lines on vertical resolution". What this overlooks is that these 1080 lines are attempting to be traced on a only a portion of what are already relatively small, 7" dia. CRT's. In fact, there's no way the electronics can focus the scan line that precisely on that small area, so the 1080 lines are nowhere near fully resolved. The set may not be capable of displaying much of a difference between 480p and 1080i.

Several years ago a few manufacturers made 16x9 RPTV's with 9" CRT's. These all produced spectacular pictures (I have one), but they were somewhat pricey and have largely been discontinued, having been superceded by other technologies such as DLP.

-- You may be sitting too far away for your eyes to be able to resolve the difference between 480p and 1080i. This, I think, the the primary dilemma in using 4x3 sets for HD, and the reason why I think they should be avoided, no matter what percentage of viewing is 4x3 vs. 16x9 material.

On a 4x3 set, the picture size is the largest when viewing the lowest-resolution material: namely, SD channels. Conversely, the picture size for the best, highest resolution content, namely High Definition, or even DVD's, is the smallest picture. (?)

So you wind up with the dilemma of either sitting close enough to appreciate the detail in the small HD picture, which turns out to be waaaay too close for the larger, low-res SD picture, or you sit far enough back so that the flaws in the SD picture aren't noticable, in which case you're sitting so far back that the finer detail in the smaller HD picture cannot be appreciated. To me, it seems somewhat pointless in this case to spend the extra bucks on an HD TV; might as well go with a SD or one of the ED sets on the market.
 
M

markdl

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Sep 8, 2003
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Don Landis said:
Mark- I suppose with CES coming up the week of the 5th that we should not expect to see any major shipping of the 921 until after that week and more likely sometime toward the end of January. Originally I thought you said the new software would be coming the first. Must be more problems with it that it is being delayed again????

Since Tuesday, L1.43 has always been coming the week of the 5th, as many people are on holiday vacations until then. That's what I was meaning when I was saying "sometime after the 1st". No 2nd delay on it - it's still the same delay.
 

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