Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus

[Dee_Ann]

Hi,

I have a few questions about this PVR, bear with me a minute while I explain.

First off, I am NOT a "gamer", I do not own or use game machines, at all. I bought this to record from Dish...

I am a subscriber to Dish, I get AT250 and a few of the premium channels.

For the past year and a half I have had a 2tb disk on my VIP211k and I had recorded a LOT of stuff.
A few weeks ago my HD dish (I use three separate and very large dishes, loooooong story) had lost alignment because the ground dried out and the dish drooped.
So I needed to take my tuner outside to the dish and realign the dish. I went to the tuner and entered the menu utilities and told that to remove the disk from the system.
I followed the on screen prompts and did what the tuner told me to do. I powered everything down, took the tuner outside, re-aligned the dish, took the tuner back inside and reconnected everything.
The disk was never recognized by the tuner again.

I tried and tried everything imaginable to get the tuner to recognize the disk. Nothing would work at all. I even plugged it into a little laptop I have that runs Mint Linux.
In the past, out of curiosity I plugged the disk into that laptop and it recognized it and I could browse the contents however the contents are encrypted and I couldn't do anything other than view proprietary, encrypted files.
I reconnected the disk to the tuner and it saw it just fine and I was able to use it for more than a year.

So, after losing a LOT of stuff I really wanted to keep, I got MAD!
I decided this would never happen again. Everything else I own, I can make backup copies of. But not my Dish disk! And if there was ever a reason to back it up, this was the reason!

So I went and purchased a very small disk, the smallest I could find, 160gb. I wish I could have found one even smaller but this was about the bottom. It was only $29 so that's fine.
I also bought the Hauppauge HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus from Amazon.

The reason I bought the smallest disk possible was to prevent me from stockpiling a bazillion recordings, again. It also goes through the mandatory daily disk check in a matter of minutes. With the 2tb disk it was taking TWO HOURS every morning. It was pretty much full though.

The reason I bought this specific PVR is because it was the only model that came with a Mac OS X app AND it can do HDMI pass-through. Or so they claim. It also was the only one that came with all the cables to connect to ~anything~.

I installed the app on my Mac and that part of it seems to work just fine. I like that I can click on stuff in Titan and schedule recordings however, it does not have the IR blaster option and I have to also create a timer in the tuner to auto-tune the show. The bad this is, while it's doing it's thing, I can not press anything on the remote control because it will also record any info pop-ups that the tuner would display onscreen.

I also have to cause the tuner to auto-tune the channel rather than record the channel because it will often record the channel in the background while it plays a local OTA channel on screen.

So here's my real problem with it. They claim that the device will record via HDMI pass-through. Ok, so I tried that. Not so much, no worky-worky...

What happens when I put the Hauppauge recorder inline between the Dish tuner and my TV is that the video plays just fine but on the TV, there's a horrific sputtering noise that is unbearable and makes it totally impossible to use in this way. I tried all sorts of different setups and different cables but it was always the same horrible noise. However, I did try to make some test recordings while connected in this way and they came out just fine. The video was great and the audio was great too. So as a recorder, it did as it was advertised to do. But it just would not pass the audio through without ruining it at the TV end.

Is this due to something Dish is doing to prevent people from trying to do what I tried to do? I know they want you to be locked into their little garden, that they don't want you to be able to take recordings and save them in the way YOU want to save them, that they don't allow you to back up your disks to recover from disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something to prevent recording on your terms.

What I ended up having to do is connect the Hauppauge recorder to the component video of the on the VIP211k which is limited to 1080i/60. But as I understand it, Dish broadcasts only in "HD Lite" and that there are no 1080p broadcasts anywhere in the US anyway, everything in the US is either 720p or 1080i so connecting to the component shouldn't be an issue.

For audio, I used the red laser wire, I can't ever remember what it's called, optical something, it's the little fiber wire with a red light.

Is there any way to use the HDMI pass through on D* or is it just forbidden by them?

The other question is about recording and bit rates. The Hauppauge app has a lot of options to select when recording.

They are, using variable rate in the kbps range,
1. Good - 5 to 7
2. Better - 7 - 9
3. Best - 9 -10
4. Insanely Good - 14 - 14

Of course the faster it goes, the more it burns up disk.

Ultimately I will end up editing out the commercials and scaling them down from 1080i/60 to 720p/24. Doing that will save disk space. But I want to maintain a balance between the best possible quality but still keep a focus on saving disk space..

Here's some info I took from a recording log.

Input #0, mpegts, from '/Volumes/2tb-Video/new-PVR/20130806_161020.m2ts':
Duration: 00:00:01.61, start: 1.490078, bitrate: 5183 kb/s
Program 1
Stream #0.0[0x1011]: Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 59.92 fps, 59.94 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
Stream #0.1[0x1100]: Audio: ac3, 0 channels

Output #0, mp4, to '/Volumes/2tb-Video/new-PVR/20130806_161020.m2ts.mp4':
Stream #0.0: Video: 0x0021, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], q=2-31, 60k tbn, 29.97 tbc
Stream #0.1: Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 128 kb/s

What would be the suggested bit rate to record using the Hauppauge PVR?
I have searched high and low but I can not find anywhere that tells what bit rate Dish Network transmits their HD content.. I mean, are they using a low bit rate? If they are using a low bit rate then it's my thinking that I won't gain anything by recording in a higher bit rate than they transmit, right? Like if they are only using 3.5kbps for HD(lite) then it would not help me to record it at 5kbps or higher, right?

In other works, if they are using 3.5kbps I could set it for variable bit rate between 3.5 to 5kbps and still get a good quality recording. That's what I'm thinking.
I don't really know the working of Dish equipment as they have a "hands off" policy and don't allow people to explore or peek inside what they are doing.

I am a professional photographer, I own a Canon EOS 5D Mark II so I know about image compression and how BAD it is. I shoot and work in RAW mode so that I can always have the very best results.
I only use jpg when I publish stuff online for others to see because most people can't view RAW images, they are very large and most people wouldn't know the difference or care anyway. But I do.

I want to have good video recordings but I know very little about Dish technical and this new Hauppauge PVR, well it's new to me. My thing is still photography, I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about video. Except watching them. I have a LOT of experience with that..

Any advice would be appreciated!

?Thanks!

 

[Grillinessou]

As a person whom has the original HD PVR and has done many recordings, you'll want to record in the maximum quality possible. You'll also want to have it set as m2ts format and the ac3 audio. This will give you the best possible recordings for your editing program weather it be FCP, Handbrake, ect. Reason you want to record in the maximum possible level is because any compression you do in your editing program can degrade the quality depending on the codec. As a suggestion on the final edit from your rendering, you might want to keep it as an m2ts format. That way, in case you want to save it to a Blu-Ray later on, it will be easy and you'll have the best sound possible for your archive.

 

[Stalker]

Did you try hooking up the component cables and an optical connection for sound instead? I know the Gamer PVR has those connections and I also know the HDMI connection signal is encrypted and copy protected. I tried to use it with Tivo and Tivo put a big Tivo watermark right in the center of the screen. In your case maybe that's why the audio noise. Don't worry the component connection PQ is just the same as using an HDMI. Hope that helps.

 

[dfergie]

I've been able to get video and audio, but not 5.1 sound via HDMI from both Dish and DIRECTV, record at the highest bitrates... not a Mac user so not sure what's up there.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Did you try hooking up the component cables and an optical connection for sound instead? I know the Gamer PVR has those connections and I also know the HDMI connection signal is encrypted and copy protected. I tried to use it with Tivo and Tivo put a big Tivo watermark right in the center of the screen. In your case maybe that's why the audio noise. Don't worry the component connection PQ is just the same as using an HDMI. Hope that helps.

That is what I had to do. Nothing I tried would let me use the HDMI pass-through. I don't know why they even have that feature if you can't use it!

This is how I have it connected and working now.

I don't get why they put stupid copy protection on anything, it doesn't stop anyone, it just slows down honest people like me that only want a modern day equivalent of the VCR of yesteryear..

The Supreme Court ruled that non commercial home recording is legal. Now times have changed and equipment has changed but the need to record has not. Sometimes shows go away and are never seen again.

I pay for my TV, I want to keep recordings. I think it's completely unfair the lengths they will go to to prevent you from exercising your legal rights.

Case in point, "Grace Under Fire" with Brett Butler from the 90's.. I LOVE that show! But they made it go away and you can't even buy it on DVD or even VHS.
No one airs it, anywhere. Well if it ever comes back on again, I'm ready for it!

Last year they were running a cool show about two guys that filmed everything with very high speed cameras then played it back in slow motion so you can see stuff like balloons popping or bullets cutting playing cards in two, dogs drinking water, etc.. It was really, really neat stuff. I had recorded a bunch of them on the disk that went *POOF* and now they are gone and I can't get them back.

There's lots and lots of examples of great TV shows or obscure movies that are rarely ever aired or sometimes never again.

 

[Dee_Ann]

As a person whom has the original HD PVR and has done many recordings, you'll want to record in the maximum quality possible. You'll also want to have it set as m2ts format and the ac3 audio. This will give you the best possible recordings for your editing program weather it be FCP, Handbrake, ect. Reason you want to record in the maximum possible level is because any compression you do in your editing program can degrade the quality depending on the codec. As a suggestion on the final edit from your rendering, you might want to keep it as an m2ts format. That way, in case you want to save it to a Blu-Ray later on, it will be easy and you'll have the best sound possible for your archive.

Cool, thank you.. Sounds like good, solid advice..

 

[Dee_Ann]

Oh, and here's what the options are it gives me on the audio



It won't allow me to change any settings on the audio recording. I am assuming it's because of the optical rather than HDMI input.
When I did attempt to connect via HDMI, the audio options were not greyed out and I was able to select them and change them to a few different options.
Once I switched to the component/optical it greyed out the audio settings.

As for the post processing, I'm just experimenting with it. There aren't really any options you can select there.

One thing I did find out is that iMovie will not import the .m2ts files at all so that why I tried letting it convert them to .mp4 files.

I guess the other option would be to import them into Adobe Premier Pro. It seems to be able to read the .m2ts files. I'm just not very skilled with it. Yet.

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

Did you say that the HDMI pass through worked fine as far as the video pass through goes? I have the Logitech Revue Google TV. The pass through on that works just fine as far as video goes,however I don't get 5.1 sound. What I had to do,& you might have to do this with your PVR,was take a digital optical cable & hook it to my Dish receiver(ViP722k DVR) & then hook the other end to my receiver. Actually my set up is like this,hdmi from my ViP722k through my Logitech Revue(substitute Hauppauge PVR in your case) to my TV. I bypass the hdmi pass through on my Onkyo receiver & go straight to the TV from my Logitech Revue. Now I hook up the digital optical cable from my ViP722k to my receiver & that's how I get my sound. Aftwards you can set up your PVR to record via hdmi like you had it before. Unfortunately with Mac,the only way you can coordinate recording between your 211k & Hauppauge PVR 2 is with auto-tune on your 211k. I had a Hauppauge PVR,with just component cable & digital optical cable,& EyeTV software for my Mac because of no compatable blaster.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Did you say that the HDMI pass through worked fine as far as the video pass through goes?

Yes, and no... If I plug ONLY the Hauppauge into the D* tuner, it will record audio and video just fine. BUT, it will not pass through the audio when I plug my TV in.
When I plug in the TV to create a pass-through situation, the recording still comes out just fine but the audio coming out of the TV is utterly ruined, it "sputters" loudly and you can not listen to it. The video on the TV looks fine though.

I have the Logitech Revue Google TV. The pass through on that works just fine as far as video goes,however I don't get 5.1 sound. What I had to do,& you might have to do this with your PVR,was take a digital optical cable & hook it to my Dish receiver(ViP722k DVR) & then hook the other end to my receiver. Actually my set up is like this,hdmi from my ViP722k through my Logitech Revue(substitute Hauppauge PVR in your case) to my TV. I bypass the hdmi pass through on my Onkyo receiver & go straight to the TV from my Logitech Revue. Now I hook up the digital optical cable from my ViP722k to my receiver & that's how I get my sound. Aftwards you can set up your PVR to record via hdmi like you had it before. Unfortunately with Mac,the only way you can coordinate recording between your 211k & Hauppauge PVR 2 is with auto-tune on your 211k. I had a Hauppauge PVR,with just component cable & digital optical cable,& EyeTV software for my Mac because of no compatable blaster.

Well, I can't really do this because my system is a little weird. The VIP211K feeds into an HDMI 3 to 1 switch. That feeds into a 1 to 4 splitter.




With the switch I can I can select which video source I want to see. That goes to a 4 way splitter so that it then will display on all the TV's in the house at the same time.
I have never had any problems with this configuration. When I tried to insert the Hauppauge into it all and it didn't work, I thought maybe it maybe have to do with the switch or the splitter.
So I tried putting it in before the switch, then between the switch and the splitter then between the splitter and the TV in my office. No luck..

Then I tried putting it straight in the middle between the satellite and the TV in my office, without the switch or splitter in it at all. Still no..

So it seems that the Dish system does not like the Hauppauge trying to record through the HDMI.

Well, that's ok, I just hooked it to the component and optical on the tuner and that works fine. The HDMI circuit remains the way it was before and works just fine.


Oh, and as for some sort of IR blaster thing, I'm open to suggestions! Is there one I can buy that plugs into my Mac? In the setup there is an option for using an external channel changer. ???

?

I tried to use the auto-tune on something last night and while it did work, for some reason it didn't record audio. So I've decided that I'll have the tuner actually record to disk then play that back into the tuner so that in case the Hauppauge doesn't record properly I can try again and again until I get it right then I can delete the file from the Dish disk.

 

[dfergie]

I've never tried the pass through on mine, other than trying with 3D, maybe next time I'm off ...

 

[navychop]

As to the original EHD loss, all you had to do was call Dish for a "hit" as has been posted many times here. Ask here before the frustration builds.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[Grillinessou]

Trying to utilize the HDMI when connecting from the receiver to the HD-PVR would cause problems. This is due to HDCP. Best bet would be to use component video and optical audio. There are devices that would switch HDMI to DVI and then process it back out to HDMI... but that would be a bit complex. Try the component video and see what comes up.

 

[Dee_Ann]

As to the original EHD loss, all you had to do was call Dish for a "hit" as has been posted many times here. Ask here before the frustration builds.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

This is the first I ever heard that there is a possible resolve. I set the disk aside, I haven't touched it since it went down.
I will plow through the forums tomorrow and see if I can figure out what it is you guys are talking about. I would be extremely happy to get my year+ of videos back.

Trying to utilize the HDMI when connecting from the receiver to the HD-PVR would cause problems. This is due to HDCP. Best bet would be to use component video and optical audio. There are devices that would switch HDMI to DVI and then process it back out to HDMI... but that would be a bit complex. Try the component video and see what comes up.

?That's what I'm doing now.