HBO Max/Discovery+ Merger

[Don in CT]

Fox Networks ( Fox News, Fox, National Fox Sports ) are owned by Murdock, 20 (21) Century Fox is owned by Disney, so the majority of content ( for a small example-Simpsons, Family Guy, the 911 shows ) is allowed to be on Disney owned streaming services.

Disney also bought the FX’s channels ( why most shows are on Hulu before and at the same time), Nat Geographic ( Disney+).

Acquisition of 21st Century Fox by Disney - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, that is all accurate. The post that the Fox network is independent is false as Murdock still owns it. It was never an independent entity as it was always owned by a corporation.

 

[NashGuy]

And Fox Business News reports that sales of the CNN+ service are “lackluster” and that It too might be merged into HBO Max as soon as May.

This is a bundle. While there are some shows on HBO Max that are fine, most end up on TBS or TNT eventually; there is literally nothing on CNN that I have any interest in and very little on Discovery. Just very lightweight educational programming that is, more often than not, superficial.

As I've said before, it's hard to see a bright future for CNN+. Seems the target audience are cable-subscribing CNN super-fans who want even more CNN and are willing to pay $6/mo (or, if they sign up now, $3/mo for life) to stream it. I just don't think there's that big an audience there. CNN mostly appeals to normies; it isn't a cult like Fox News, which has succeeded in getting a sustainable slice of their fanbase to pay extra for their Fox Nation streaming service.

The problems for CNN, IMO, are even larger. They're now almost always third in ratings among the three big cable news outlets. Fox News owns the right while MSNBC outflanks them on the left. Being stuck in the middle is a difficult place to be in an increasingly polarized society where the political middle is disappearing. And if you mainly just want competent journalism, not so much talking-head political opinion stuff -- which seems to be the preference of younger Americans -- then you can get that for free via live streaming channels from CBS News, ABC News and NBC News.

Combine that set of facts with recent comments from John Malone that are critical of CNN. Malone is Discovery's largest shareholder and a board member. Many see him as the power behind David Zaslov's throne at Discovery, soon to be Warner Bros. Discovery. So, all things considered, it wouldn't surprise me if WBD decides to sell off CNN. And if that's something they're actively considering, then I don't think we'll see them fold CNN+ into HBO Max in the coming months, regardless of how it fares. They'll keep CNN separate in order to shop that unit around and sell it off. I'm not sure who might want to buy it, though. Maybe the New York Times?

Oh, and as for most Max Originals from HBO Max ending up on TBS or TNT, that's not even close to true. They're bringing season 1 of The Flight Attendant (which debuted on HBO Max about 18 months ago) to TBS or TNT soon but I'm not aware of any others. IDK, maybe there are one or two other such shows, but nowhere close to "most," given how many Max Originals there have been since HBO Max launched two years ago.

 

[NashGuy]

Yes, that is all accurate. The post that the Fox network is independent is false as Murdock still owns it. It was never an independent entity as it was always owned by a corporation.

Fox is independent in the sense that it's not part of one of the major global media powerhouses which I outlined above, not in the sense of it being privately owned, which it is not. Yes, it's a publicly traded corp. with a market cap of around $21-22 bn, a sliver of what Fox once was before selling most of its assets to Disney. Disney now has a market cap of over 10x Fox, about $253 bn. Netflix has a market cap of $167 bn.

Here's a handy visual of the media landscape. (Note that some of the market cap values on it are a bit outdated.):

Here’s who owns everything in the media today

It probably won’t look like this for long.

www.vox.com

 

[Juan]

Fox is independent in the sense that it's not part of one of the major global media powerhouses which I outlined above, not in the sense of it being privately owned, which it is not. Yes, it's a publicly traded corp. with a market cap of around $21-22 bn, a sliver of what Fox once was before selling most of its assets to Disney. Disney now has a market cap of over 10x Fox, about $253 bn. Netflix has a market cap of $167 bn.

Here's a handy visual of the media landscape. (Note that some of the market cap values on it are a bit outdated.):

Here’s who owns everything in the media today

It probably won’t look like this for long.

www.vox.com

I think you are way off on FOX being independent..Murdoch owns a huge newspaper conglomerate..certainly in the same league with the others mentioned above

 

[SamCdbs]

To be totally knitpicky, Fox Corporation, which is the entity that kept the stuff not sold to Disney, is slightly less than 40% owned by the Murdoch family. The rest trades on the stock market. This includes the Fox OTA network, 28 TV stations, some production companies that make some of the shows seen on Fox, TMZ, Tubi, the MY network, the national Fox Sports channels, the Fox News channels and websites, 50% of the Big 10 network, and 50% of the USFL.

News Corporation, from which Fox was split off in 2013 owns Fox branded TV channels in Australia, the Foxtel cable/DBS/streaming monopoly in Australia, plus various newspapers including the Wall Street Journal, magazines, and book publishers. Murdoch family owns about 35% of this, the rest trades on the stock market.

Disney bought the 20th Century Fox studios and its various sub-brands, and the film library; the FX branded channels; the old 20th Television production company and its film library (including The Simpsons); and Fox’s shares in the National Geographic channel (75%), Hulu, and some Indian streaming services.

Disney had to sell the regional sports networks, which are now owned by Sinclair and branded as Bally’s under a advertising deal. Some other assets in Latin America, India, and Europe ended up in the hands of Hearst, Comcast, or Mexican hands.

 

[Don in CT]

Fox is independent in the sense that it's not part of one of the major global media powerhouses which I outlined above, not in the sense of it being privately owned, which it is not. Yes, it's a publicly traded corp. with a market cap of around $21-22 bn, a sliver of what Fox once was before selling most of its assets to Disney. Disney now has a market cap of over 10x Fox, about $253 bn. Netflix has a market cap of $167 bn.

Here's a handy visual of the media landscape. (Note that some of the market cap values on it are a bit outdated.):

Here’s who owns everything in the media today

It probably won’t look like this for long.

www.vox.com

The movie studios predate the television network by 60 years. 20th Century Fox goes back to the golden age of Hollywood. Long before Murdock took control of it. Paramount was not a part of CBS until the first merger with Viacom. NBC and Universal merged just before Comcast took over. These networks were without studios for the majority of their existence.

 

[SamCdbs]

The movie studios predate the television network by 60 years. 20th Century Fox goes back to the golden age of Hollywood. Long before Murdock took control of it. Paramount was not a part of CBS until the first merger with Viacom. NBC and Universal merged just before Comcast took over. These networks were without studios for the majority of their existence.

All true. But you have to question why Fox has chosen to be the outlier. NBC has Universal and Peacock, ABC has Disney (and most of the old Fox library) and Hulu/Disney Plus; CBS has Paramount and Paramount Plus.

And Fox has, well Fox. And Tubi, which is free and worth what they charge for it. Fox has placed itself in a disadvantage that, really, it cannot ever overcome. Its going to be the 4th network as long as there are networks. Sports and faux-reality. And cartoons.

 

[Don in CT]

All true. But you have to question why Fox has chosen to be the outlier. NBC has Universal and Peacock, ABC has Disney (and most of the old Fox library) and Hulu/Disney Plus; CBS has Paramount and Paramount Plus.

And Fox has, well Fox. And Tubi, which is free and worth what they charge for it. Fox has placed itself in a disadvantage that, really, it cannot ever overcome. Its going to be the 4th network as long as there are networks. Sports and faux-reality. And cartoons.

The Murdocks wanted to cash out. He saw what studios were going for and wanted to downsize to just the TV networks. They. already spun off the publishing side.

 

[Don in CT]

Five reasons why the Murdochs are selling Fox to Disney

What has prompted this major strategic shift for the Murdoch family.

www.bbc.com

Fox is selling its movie studios, television productions, regional sports and international businesses, including Star and Europe-based broadcaster Sky, leaving a smaller company more narrowly focused on news and major live sports events.
The sale means Fox is left with content believed to be more resistant to the threat from online ads and streaming - and which are dear to Rupert Murdoch's heart.
At the same time, Fox sheds parts of its business that have suffered from revenue declines in recent years.

 

[NashGuy]

The movie studios predate the television network by 60 years. 20th Century Fox goes back to the golden age of Hollywood. Long before Murdock took control of it. Paramount was not a part of CBS until the first merger with Viacom. NBC and Universal merged just before Comcast took over. These networks were without studios for the majority of their existence.

What's your point? I'm talking about how things exist *now*.

 

[NashGuy]

I think you are way off on FOX being independent..Murdoch owns a huge newspaper conglomerate..certainly in the same league with the others mentioned above

Nope, not even close. Again, look at the market cap of Fox ($22 bn) vs. Disney ($253 bn). Fox is not a content company, they're just a broadcast company focused mainly on news, sports, and cheap-to-produce reality content (e.g. The Masked Singer). They sold their library of movies and TV shows to Disney, along with their studios that created that kind of content.

The entertainment shows on the Fox broadcast network (e.g. animated series plus the few scripted filmed dramas and sitcoms) aren't owned by Fox but by outside studios. For instance, Warner makes the new sitcom Pivoting that aired there recently. Fox broadcasts those shows and then the studio that owns them either puts them on their own streamer (e.g. HBO Max) or licenses them to a different one (e.g. Hulu).

 

[Don in CT]

What's your point? I'm talking about how things exist *now*.

What does it matter. Pilots come and go, most never see the light of day. Producing shows are expensive. Unless you have a tent pole franchise you don’t make much money on shows unless you get syndication money. Most of CBS’s biggest hits were not even produced in house.

 

[NashGuy]

All true. But you have to question why Fox has chosen to be the outlier. NBC has Universal and Peacock, ABC has Disney (and most of the old Fox library) and Hulu/Disney Plus; CBS has Paramount and Paramount Plus.

And Fox has, well Fox. And Tubi, which is free and worth what they charge for it. Fox has placed itself in a disadvantage that, really, it cannot ever overcome. Its going to be the 4th network as long as there are networks. Sports and faux-reality. And cartoons.

Yep, as Don said, Murdoch wanted to downsize. And he realized that in order to compete globally as a content studio with a direct-to-consumer SVOD, they needed scale. They needed to be big, even bigger than 20th Century Fox already was. Disney saw the same thing, which is why they bought most of Fox, to feed Hulu and Disney+ (which they'll eventually merge into a single global service).

Of the remaining players, Paramount is the most sub-scale. They're not going to make it on their own. And I kinda don't think NBCUniversal (Peacock) will either. Still think the two of those merging, and then selling off either CBS or NBC to Warner Bros. Discovery, looks like the most likely scenario over the next couple of years.

 

[Juan]

Nope, not even close. Again, look at the market cap of Fox ($22 bn) vs. Disney ($253 bn). Fox is not a content company, they're just a broadcast company focused mainly on news, sports, and cheap-to-produce reality content (e.g. The Masked Singer). They sold their library of movies and TV shows to Disney, along with their studios that created that kind of content.

The entertainment shows on the Fox broadcast network (e.g. animated series plus the few scripted filmed dramas and sitcoms) aren't owned by Fox but by outside studios. For instance, Warner makes the new sitcom Pivoting that aired there recently. Fox broadcasts those shows and then the studio that owns them either puts them on their own streamer (e.g. HBO Max) or licenses them to a different one (e.g. Hulu).

Fox is not a small independent...they recently sold out to Disney..( movies cable channels etc etc etc)... you need to look at Ruperts other corporations in Europe..not just whats left of Fox

 

[Bruce]

Fox is not a small independent...they recently sold out to Disney..( movies cable channels etc etc etc)... you need to look at Ruperts other corporations in Europe..not just whats left of Fox

If you mean Sky, Murdoch sold that to Comcast.

And in today’s world, who cares about newspapers.

 

[Juan]

If you mean Sky, Murdoch sold that to Comcast.

And in today’s world, who cares about newspapers.

He is old and getting rid of everything

 

[lakebum431]

Fox is not a small independent...they recently sold out to Disney..( movies cable channels etc etc etc)... you need to look at Ruperts other corporations in Europe..not just whats left of Fox

For some reason you are hung up on the word independent. What is being pointed out is that they are independent of any in-house studio. They no longer have the 21st Century Fox studio (that was sold to Disney). So now, they are independent of content production and they rely on production companies for their content.

 

[Juan]

For some reason you are hung up on the word independent. What is being pointed out is that they are independent of any in-house studio. They no longer have the 21st Century Fox studio (that was sold to Disney). So now, they are independent of content production and they rely on production companies for their content.

Whatever

 

[lakebum431]

Whatever

A very valuable post. Thanks for taking the time to participate... I'm not sure what that means. Do you disagree?

 

[Don in CT]

For some reason you are hung up on the word independent. What is being pointed out is that they are independent of any in-house studio. They no longer have the 21st Century Fox studio (that was sold to Disney). So now, they are independent of content production and they rely on production companies for their content.

They all rely on production companies. Do you think every network produces everything in house?