HD at 120hz

sbturner

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 25, 2005
173
2
Georgia
I have a new Samsung LCD with 222K and the tv is a 120hz. When I am watching a satellite channel and hit info on the tv it says 720p@60hz. Is that all the receiver can do? Is the receiver deciding 60hz?
 

8bitbytes

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
3,239
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NoVA
You can set your receiver for 1080i. The 120hz on your tv is a video process performed by the tv to the signal it receives to add frames to the signal in an attempt to smooth the image. Looks too much like live video for me.
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,098
48
Great High Plains
Not related to each other

I have a new Samsung LCD with 222K and the tv is a 120hz. When I am watching a satellite channel and hit info on the tv it says 720p@60hz. Is that all the receiver can do? Is the receiver deciding 60hz?

Your 120 Hz is not related to the output of the receiver. Set your 222k to 1080i out and don't worry about it. the 120 Hz is related to the speed at which the TV scans the screen not to the speed that the source is set to. Even if you were to watch a 1080p 24 source such as a Blue ray or the special PPV's that dish has your TV screen will still scan at the 120Hz.
 

CowboyDren

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 18, 2005
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64133
To the OP, these guys are on the right track. Set the receiver to 1080i, and don't let anything else bother you. Sounds like you have a lot to learn about HDTV display technology versus broadcast technology. To answer the question that you haven't asked, NOBODY broadcasts in 1080P except for VOD titles.

You can set your receiver for 1080i. The 120hz on your tv is a video process performed by the tv to the signal it receives to add frames to the signal in an attempt to smooth the image. Looks too much like live video for me.

The refresh rate doesn't mean that dejudder ("motion smoothing") is active. Some TVs can't turn dejudder off, but don't assume that just because it's 120Hz or 240Hz that it's also a picture mangler.

It reminds of me of a soap opera a little bit.

Yeah, most dejudder technologies tend to make film look like tape, and that's usually a bad thing. Actually, some dejudder features have multiple settings, and I tend to like the lowest setting available, but nothing more. Most "full effect" dejudder looks like a paper cutout puppet show to me. :)
 

kwindrem

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 5, 2006
644
127
I have a new Samsung LCD with 222K and the tv is a 120hz. When I am watching a satellite channel and hit info on the tv it says 720p@60hz. Is that all the receiver can do? Is the receiver deciding 60hz?

As already mentioned, you'll find program material in 1080i@60Hz, 1080p@24Hz, 720p@60Hz, but no program material at 1080p@60Hz. I believe all the VOD will be 1080p@24.

There is work on a PRODUCTION standard for 1080p@60 but it'll be a long time before that makes it to broadcast, cable or satellite.

All modern displays will deinterlace and display at 60 Hz progressive (or 120 Hz progressive). Many 120Hz displays also attempt to smooth motion by "interpolating" *display* frames that don't exist. They attempt to predict where an object should be for the missing frame based on its position in adjacent real frames. You can imagine how complicated it must be to accurately separate each object on screen, move them separately then fill in around them as they move at different rates!

For me, the most important aspect of modern displays is eliminating the motion judder from 3:2 pulldown necessary to fit 24 frame film into a 60 Hz video frame stream. One film frame is displayed for 3 TV fields while the next is displayed for only 2 TV fields. 120 Hz display refresh can undo the 3:2 pulldown since 120 Hz is a multiple of 24 Hz. (My Pioneer display refreshes at 72 Hz for 24 Hz source material and can also eliminate the 3:2 motion judder displaying every film frame 3 times just like in a movie theater.)

The other advantage is reducing flicker. 60 Hz refresh can be detected, especially out of the corner of your eye. 72 Hz is much better, 120 Hz should not be detectable at all.
 

dmendenjr

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 24, 2008
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The keystone state
Right on the money! Oh, and don't let anyone convince you it has anything to do with actual power draw. Best Buy had one of our customers so confused, it's almost criminal. She was purchasing a 240Hz Sony 46" Z-series television. They essentially told her if you don't hook it up to a power cleaning surge suppressor, you won't get 240Hz... trying to sell a $60 power cleaner to add on to her sale. She misinterpreted what they told her and she asked me, "But the comcast box power supply is only 60Hz how can the TV show 240?" Took 20 minutes to detangle THAT myth...
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,098
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Great High Plains
OMG

Right on the money! Oh, and don't let anyone convince you it has anything to do with actual power draw. Best Buy had one of our customers so confused, it's almost criminal. She was purchasing a 240Hz Sony 46" Z-series television. They essentially told her if you don't hook it up to a power cleaning surge suppressor, you won't get 240Hz... trying to sell a $60 power cleaner to add on to her sale. She misinterpreted what they told her and she asked me, "But the comcast box power supply is only 60Hz how can the TV show 240?" Took 20 minutes to detangle THAT myth...

A sales person trying to S**T a customer just to make some $$. It can't be so. :D Just like all those monster cables that Magnolia HIFI pushes off onto their clientele. :yikes:haha:haha:haha:haha I used to a long time ago deliver and install for them. Really got a kick out how the sales people would just laugh at how easy it was to stick it to the rubes.
 

DishSubLA

SatelliteGuys Master
Apr 9, 2006
5,440
1,402
You can't "set the TV to 120hz". It's the tv's refresh rate, it's can't be changed. You need to play with AMP to address judder.

You are absolutely correct. My mistake. I often have people set the motion smoothing feature to its minimum or medium, explaining that they can "shut it off" as the only term they really understand or adopt on their own as it gives an appearance of the old 60Hz display that doesn't attempt to correct judder. Many people prefer it to the "video tape" or "soap opera" appearance of 120Hz with strong de-judder that some people don't like. I just tell them it'll look like like your old 60Hz set you love so much as explaining judder just makes people's eyes glaze. They don't get it :)

It is the judder correction, as you so correctly pointed out that has the most obvious effect to the human eye of "smoothness" in motion and that most unlike film look that some despise, but I like, and in a short time don't even notice the "videotape" or "Soap Opera" appearance. I love that sharpness, but occasional there are artifacts, but no so much that it bothers me. I may be in the minority on this.
Thanks, again.
 

pjdevitt

New Member
May 31, 2010
1
0
Boston
I have a Samsung with Auto Motion, and notice the "soap opera" effect on certain ppv HD movies, as was mentioned above for some Dish movies. If I am reading the thread correctly (I am by no means technically savvy to many of the terms discussed), even if I have the "Auto Motion" on my hdtv turned off, there is nothing I can do to get rid of the soap opera effect on those movies. Apologies if I misunderstood this, I am just looking for confirmation that there really isn't anything I can do about the look of that subset of ppv hd movies - if that is the case I will just Netflix them as they look fine (i.e. - like movies not soap operas!) on DVD.

Cheers,
Patrick
 

Kb Cool

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 31, 2005
1,442
1
Mesa, AZ
I have a Samsung with Auto Motion, and notice the "soap opera" effect on certain ppv HD movies, as was mentioned above for some Dish movies. If I am reading the thread correctly (I am by no means technically savvy to many of the terms discussed), even if I have the "Auto Motion" on my hdtv turned off, there is nothing I can do to get rid of the soap opera effect on those movies. Apologies if I misunderstood this, I am just looking for confirmation that there really isn't anything I can do about the look of that subset of ppv hd movies - if that is the case I will just Netflix them as they look fine (i.e. - like movies not soap operas!) on DVD.

Cheers,
Patrick

I just got a samsung ln40c630. I leave auto motion set to "clear". Haven't noticed the soap opera effect at all. But, with auto motion set to "standard" or "smooth". It's easily noticable. And not very pleasant except for the "True Blood" series on Blue ray. As far as seeing the effect on PPV, even with auto motion "off" or set to "clear". I can't answer that, as i haven't viewed any on this set.
 

KAB

SatelliteGuys Master
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Sep 20, 2005
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I still don't know what you are talking about but then I didn't get an LCD I got plasma. So I may never know. Does LCD stand for Low Class Display? :D

By soap opera effect, they are talking about the classic "video tape vs film look", soaps always having been shot on tape.
 

whatchel1

SatelliteGuys Master
Sep 30, 2006
9,098
48
Great High Plains
Shoulda gone plasma

By soap opera effect, they are talking about the classic "video tape vs film look", soaps always having been shot on tape.

OK kind of understand. Just goes to show that they should a gotten a plasma instead of the LCD. Then they could've seen really good HD. :D
 

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