HD-Lite Class Action

[SRW1000]

It also says, "horizontal resolution varies according to the source". I'm sure another lawyer will mention this and the screen shot will negate itself.

It makes the case clearer when you read the following sentence, which illustrates the variety they are talking about:

Some examples for typical sources: VHS VCRs (240 lines), analog TV broadcasts (330 lines), non-HDTV digital satellite TV (up to 380 lines), and DVD players (540 lines). DTV signals have horizontal resolution that ranges from 640 lines for SDTV, to 1280 lines (for 720p HDTV) or 1920 lines (for 1080i HDTV).

.

They list two resolutions for HD, along with other resolutions for non-HD material from various sources.

Couple that with the other post from their site referencing the ATSC's six HD standards, and the case becomes much, much tighter.

Scott

 

[SRW1000]

Pradike strikes back!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.tvpredictions.com/radike092206.htm

Commentary
DIRECTV's HDTV Is A-Ok
By Peter Radike...
4. The 'HD Lite' issue (alleged poor picture quality) is not unique to D*, but also has been experienced from EchoStar and cable providers as well. I suspect this issue will go away within the next year as bandwidth becomes expanded at various providers. The frivolous lawsuit (See Related Links) filed will most likely be shelved by the courts, as no mandated statue exists for what constitutes HD.....

This is one of the most persistent thoughts that I just can't understand.

The government does not have to define or mandate anything in order to show that what's being provided is not what's being advertised.

Just think of how many things we buy each day that aren't controlled, monitored, or defined by the government. Such a list of definitions would be impossible to create, control, and maintain.

We all have a reasonable expectation of certain things. If we buy a pen, we expect it to have ink in it. If it were a pencil, we would be understandably upset. It's called a pen, and you should get a pen. The government doesn't control pens. It doesn't define pens. But we can all agree that a pencil isn't a pen.

It gets slightly more tricky with technical issues, such as HDTV. But, since the ATSC's standards for HDTV were a result of both government interests (to free up bandwidth), and industry members, it is reasonable for the public to expect products being advertised as HD to adhere to those standards.

We see this in tech products all the time. Imagine buying a camera featuring a firewire port, only to find that it's actually USB. Well, since the government doesn't define or regulate firewire ports, I guess you should just be happy since it still hooks up to a computer.

If people are happy with sub-standard HD, that's fine. However, they should be given that knowledge upfront, so they know what they are paying for. In the case of DirecTV and Dish, the average consumer has no simple way of knowing that what they're getting isn't HD.

"Complaint Lite" indeed.

After reading the article, the words springing into my mind are Logic Lite.

Scott

 

[long_time_DNC]

From my standpoint, I would much prefer to have true, eye-popping HD and fewer channels of HD than a lot of down-rezzed, bit-starved HD-Lite channels. Sure, I find HD-Lite to be much more watchable than SD - most people would - but it isn't the pop-off-your-screen picture that channels like HDNet/HDNet Movies used to be.

I still have 3 movies on my 622 that I recorded from HDNet Movies before they were down-rezzed. I enjoy watching them occasionally just to enjoy the amazing PQ. If I could only archive them to an outboard drive...

 

[dslate69]

... When enough people leave because of HD-Lite, then they will listen. The lawsuit may as well wither away and give them little incentive to give us true HD any quicker.

All these HD-Lite complainers that post in every thread and bash DISH at every turn won't even leave. There will never be a mass exodus of HD purist.
That is why it is so hard to take these guys serious when they don't walk the walk.
Although I would love to see what this forum would look like without the DISH bashers and just enthusiast helping DISH fine tune their product.

 

[vurbano]

From my standpoint, I would much prefer to have true, eye-popping HD and fewer channels of HD than a lot of down-rezzed, bit-starved HD-Lite channels. Sure, I find HD-Lite to be much more watchable than SD - most people would - but it isn't the pop-off-your-screen picture that channels like HDNet/HDNet Movies used to be.

I still have 3 movies on my 622 that I recorded from HDNet Movies before they were down-rezzed. I enjoy watching them occasionally just to enjoy the amazing PQ. If I could only archive them to an outboard drive...

Im surprised there is now yahoo user group for instructions on how to do that yet?

 

[Smith P.]

<...>
I love to see what this forum would look like without the DISH bashers and just enthusiast helping DISH fine tune their product.

How ? Care to elaborate ? Or you telling me those voices who reported about bugs really concidered by sat providers ? And real results posted after each new version ? If you got taste of this things and recall what happened with HD signal ( wait a sec ! why only HD ? - look how PQ SD "improved" ), you wouldn't be so enthusiastic.
Plus, you shouldn't direct ppl to one hole - each person have own opinion and own way to his goal.

 

[dslate69]

From my standpoint, I would much prefer to have true, eye-popping HD and fewer channels of HD than a lot of down-rezzed, bit-starved HD-Lite channels. Sure, I find HD-Lite to be much more watchable than SD - most people would - but it isn't the pop-off-your-screen picture that channels like HDNet/HDNet Movies used to be.
...

Great, but how about if HDNet isn't one of the HD channels they keep. How about if the only HD channels they keep are ones YOU don't watch. Then you are left with ZERO HD to watch. Great plan.
I am not an HD-Lite embracer as a replacement to True-HD.
I do however support DISH's plan to use HD-Lite as a bridge to gain subs in the short term in a quantity battle. And as more bandwidth is available have a quality battle then.
If you just want a couple of True-HD channels get cable. If you want to be with a company that is obviously commited to HD, now with quantity and quality when the quantity gap closes; DISH is the place to be.

 

[Smith P.]

You and the companies (!) commited to HD-Lite ! Don't make up True-HD, there are one HD. By standard.

Then lets see real words, not missapropriate using True HD or astonished pictures, etc.

 

[dslate69]

How ? Care to elaborate ? Or you telling me those voices who reported about bugs really concidered by sat providers ? And real results posted after each new version ? If you got taste of this things and recall what happened with HD signal ( wait a sec ! why only HD ? - look how PQ SD "improved" ), you wouldn't be so enthusiastic.
Plus, you shouldn't direct ppl to one hole - each person have own opinion and own way to his goal.

Forums is not DISH's way to gather information from subs. I do think there are some from DISH that monitor forums but they are probably wondering why anyone in these forums are still subs if their is such a feeling of DISH's incompetence to build hardware, update software, compress channels, add channels, and any other thing that DISH tries to do.
If you want to make DISH better send feedback to them directly. They obviously count the number of channel request. I am sure your HD-Lite complaints are not ignored, but tallied and weighed in to the whole equation.
If you want to send DISH a message they will hear. You and all your HD-Lite buddy's have a mass exodus and let DISH know why. If DISH promised you HD and are not delivering you obviously will have no problem with any current DISH contract.

 

[long_time_DNC]

Great, but how about if HDNet isn't one of the HD channels they keep. How about if the only HD channels they keep are ones YOU don't watch. Then you are left with ZERO HD to watch. Great plan.
I am not an HD-Lite embracer as a replacement to True-HD.
I do however support DISH's plan to use HD-Lite as a bridge to gain subs in the short term in a quantity battle. And as more bandwidth is available have a quality battle then.
If you just want a couple of True-HD channels get cable. If you want to be with a company that is obviously commited to HD, now with quantity and quality when the quantity gap closes; DISH is the place to be.

That wasn't really what I was saying. I'm sure that must be rather evident.

 

[foghorn2]

The wonderful thing about this country is choice. If you don't like something, there usually is an alternative.

For example there are people who are willing to sacrifice a little bit of rez and size for HD for quantity for a good price, but are willing to wait for the quality. That's DishHD subs.

There are people who want HD pure quality than quantity, but are willing to wait for the quantity, those are cable subs.

Then there are those who are mismatched with their providers and keep compaining about it. These are the ones the providers will ignore and most likely will never be happy because eventually they will find something else to complain about.

 

[dslate69]

That wasn't really what I was saying. I'm sure that must be rather evident.

I am sorry, but I quoted what you said and replied to that.
I didn't take anything out of context, so I am confused what you think is evident. Maybe you meant to say something you didn't.

 

[foghorn2]

All these HD-Lite complainers that post in every thread and bash DISH at every turn won't even leave. There will never be a mass exodus of HD purist.
That is why it is so hard to take these guys serious when they don't walk the walk.
Although I would love to see what this forum would look like without the DISH bashers and just enthusiast helping DISH fine tune their product.

The bashers just play into the hands of the Cable Co's. They really do nothing to support the eventual opening of bandwidth for full rez. All they have to do is either wait for more sats to go up in the sky or launch some satellites themselves!

 

[foghorn2]

.....Moving on..... IF Dish and DirectTv we both to give you full rates and rezzes right now, will they have enough bandwith? Will they have to remove some channels? Would they lose business to Cable because of this?

I posted this question a few pages ago and have not seen any responses, so I ask P.Smith, the cable choice guy, Ilya, Voyager6, Bombadil, et.al. this again:

If Dish and DirectTv we both to give you full rates and rezzes right now, will they have enough bandwith? Will they have to remove some channels? Would they lose business to Cable because of this?

 

[dslate69]

The problem with HD-Lite complainers is their is no alternative given to remedy the problem. I need some details as to what you guys expect from DISH. Tell us, is there any place for HD-Lite? I mean would it be OK to keep VOOM in a slightly lesser resolution just to have it or is it ALL True-HD or nothing. If that is the case, which HD channels do we keep since DISH obviously doesn't have room for all of them in full rez & full bitrate. How about locals which cities get the axe and which ones get better quality? We need a plan instead of endless critical analysis.
I would love the highest quality and highest quantity but it can't be done today, so what is your plan?

The plan DISH is going with right now, I support. More channels at slightly less "eye popping" quality. A quality that allows for more cities to be available in HD than just a select few. Is this a plan that I will support for 2-5 years, NO. I am willing to wait on better quality to show itself as we go. Charlie has stated that he would like all SD channels to be mpeg4 in 3 years. New SATs are being launched and new compression hardware added to bring us to a happier median.
Until then I am able to watch a lot of HD channels with plenty of HD choices, instead of a few HD channels that I don't like.

 

[YoMamasMan]

Until then I am able to watch a lot of HD channels with plenty of HD choices, instead of a few HD channels that I don't like.

What needs to done so that a sub gets full HD resolution on a lot of channels he likes? I think this is what all of the complaints about HD-Lite are about.

How would Echostar meet my needs without pricing themselves out of the competative market?

 

[Smith P.]

Plans ? Are you serious ?

The campain started when first channels started to downrezz; then Dish told about a problem with fiber; then come Scott and Charlie rithoric question - more channels or better PQ; then HDLite become "industrial" standard (!), and so on down to the hills ...

Now in position of abandoned passenger at some station your proposed to shout out to tailgate lightes of the departured train ?!
C'mon ! Don't be so naive !

 

[Smith P.]

Sorry, but Dish have OWN and DIFFERENT plans, where is no space for our opinion. You knew it before your post.

 

[dslate69]

Plans ? Are you serious ?

The campain started when first channels started to downrezz; then Dish told about a problem with fiber; then come Scott and Charlie rithoric question - more channels or better PQ; then HDLite become "industrial" standard (!), and so on down to the hills ...

Now in position of abandoned passenger at some station your proposed to shout out to tailgate lightes of the departured train ?!
C'mon ! Don't be so naive !

So you don't have a plan.

DISH does, and you don't like it but some of us do. It is easy for you to bash DISH for every decision without an alternative idea. With Charlie in charge subs are growing, with you in charge growth would be nill. But you would be happy 'cause I wouldn't be here.

 

[Smith P.]

Nice logic ! Keep sitting in warm mad, sometimes it's help for our bones.
Some other ppl prefer walk out of that spots. See yea at tennis court ...