Help me understand the best way to come at this.

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Tony-d

SatelliteGuys Family
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May 19, 2015
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I have had ku band 90 cm dish with the amiko III for just over a year now and I am very happy with it.

I am just starting to look in to setting up a C band dish. I bought a used wire mach dish last year and I am going over it now. I know I am going to need a new drive system, and I am sure some other parts as well. I do not as yet know much about the LNBs and feed horns but the stuff I have looks old.

Is there a C band for dummies boo out there? Am I \saving any money by rebuilding this system as opposed to getting a new setup? I can not seem to find prices on new c band complete systems.

Thank you all.
 
Why not look for one dish which will be good in C-band and Ku-band, something like 1,8-2,4m plastic dish. Then motorize it and get every signal possible.
 
i just do not know what is out there (on the market) I do not wish to just through money in to the older C band dish, if it is only a matter of a few hounded more for some new stuff.
that is why i need the help.
Thank you
 
The best information usually is found on these forums. Most Google searches will direst you to good basic information, but the technology has changed and most products are no longer available. There are so many variables in the components, it is almost best to review options with fellow hobbyists.

As long as the dish is in decent condition, why not start by cleaning, checking the pivot points for excessive wear, repair, paint then reassemble? This will likely give you a better quality dish than the cheap mesh ones on Ebay and no sticker shock from the quality US manufactured dishes currently sold. If you rather pay $1500 - $2000+ for a new dish, check out the DH 2.7m at http://www.dhsatellite.com/ or contact Roger at https://www.rpssat.com/ in Canada for drop shipment of a dish from a US manufacturer.

The recommended actuator motor is either a Venture or Von Wiese ball screw model. Expensive, but will likely outlast you or me!

What feedhorn and LNBs were on the dish? You may have some great gear, or you may want to replace the feedhorn assembly with a simple-to-operate LNBF.

The control distribution wiring could either be ribbon cable designed for satellite installs or use separate quality RG6/RG11 quad shield (maybe flooded if underground) coax and shielded control/sensor wires.

The actuator motor controller (positioner) can either be an inexpensive GBox or VBox if you change the feedhorn assembly to a LNBF. If you want to keep the better quality feedhorn (maybe upgrade the LNBs) for best performance and optimization, go with the ASC1 controller.
 
Thank You both very much, (k4est & Brian) A new dish is $1500.00 to $2000.00 plus shipping. that is what i needed to know.
it's a start, I am cleaning up what i have now, and will have an innovatory soon.
Thank you both again.
Tony
 
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Best 'bang for the buck' is refurbishing an experienced BUD IMHO.
Just takes some time. If needed, replacement parts, bushings bolts n nuts some grease and paint won't break the bank.
Post some pictures, you know, we all like pictures.
 
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I have rehabilitated more than one C-Band dish, and I have never spent all that much money on any of them. I disagree with what another poster suggested about using one dish for Ku-band and C-band; in my experience that never works out well because one or the other will probably not be at quite the correct focal depth, due to the way dishes are designed. And if you ever decide to build yourself a satellite backend system using tuner cards with multiple inputs you will find it's nice to have more than a single dish.

Now people will disagree on certain points but mostly it depends on whether you are dead set on trying to rehabilitate older equipment or whether you want to use new equipment. IMHO it is more costly to rehabilitate the old stuff, except for the dish itself and maybe the positioner motor if it's not super old. If this is your only dish then I would guess you probably want it to be movable, whereas if you had multiple dishes you might find it advantageous to lock each one down on a single satellite, especially if you build a backend system using software such as TVHeadEnd.

So I am going to assume that you can use your current receiver, and that you want the dish to be movable, and that the positioner motor isn't super old (which would mean it probably has some kind of unique and funky control mechanism). The main thing you will probably want to get a new C-band LNB. If I were you I would get one with dual outputs even if you only have a single tuner, because the duals aren't that much more expensive and someday you may get a receiver with dual inputs, or build that backend system I keep mentioning. Also if you ever do something dumb and fry that LNB output, or if a power surge or lightning strike hits close enough to fry that output, the other might still work. Just be sure to cap the connector with a weatherproof cap of some kind until you need it.

The reason to get a new LNB is because most of the newer digital receivers, probably like the one you have, use voltage switching to change polarity whereas the older ones used a motor-driven mechanism that is not supported by the newer receivers. You can get a box that will convert the signals from your new receiver to your older LNB but you will pay way more than the cost of a new LNB, and depending on the age of the old one you will probably get better performance from the new LNB as well.

You will also need cable to connect the LNB to the receiver, I recommend RG-6 for shorter runs of about 100 feet or less, and RG-11 for longer runs. On marginal signals the amount of loss in the cable could make a huge difference. It is up to you if you want to run one or two cables out to the dish, but if you think you may ever want two it's usually easier to run both at the same time. Also, I always get a coil of the cheapest black plastic irrigation type I can get, you can get a roll of 100' of the 1" diameter stuff for about $20 give or take a little, and only a little more if you go larger diameter, and then bury that between your house and the dish, and then pull your cable(s) through that. The way I do it is to take a kite string and tie it to a small wad of cotton (I've also used tissue paper in a pinch) and stick that in one end of the pipe, then put a vacuum cleaner hose on the other end and turn on the vacuum while feeding the kite string until the wad of material appears. Then I tie and tape the string to the cable and use that to pull the cable back through. You will thank yourself for doing this if you ever have to replace the cable, or if you are ever digging for some other reason and forget exactly where that cable is and hit the irrigation pipe instead of cutting the cable. Also don't forget a tube of silicone caulk to seal the ends of the pipe against rain.

I'm assuming you have the pole that the dish goes on and it is already set in the ground, but if not then don't forget that you need a pole and concrete to set it (I only use about 3 to 4 bags, some people use less and some use a lot more, particularly in hurricane-prone areas). People will do all kinds of crazy things to keep the pole from twisting in the concrete, but I've never had one turn in the ground on me after the concrete was set and at most all I've ever done was give the end that will go in the concrete a few good hard whacks with a sledge hammer to deform it a little. Then again I am NOT in an area that gets a lot of heavy winds, although we've had a few good storms here. If I lived in an area that gets hurricanes I'm sure I'd do some crazy things to keep the pole from turning in the concrete too. The main thing to remember when setting the pole is it must be PERFECTLY vertical - check it with a level on several sides before the concrete sets and make adjustments if necessary. And also don't get a pole so short that the dish will touch the ground when you swing it to the far east or west (personal experience talking here). If you have run the plastic pipe I mentioned in the previous paragraph, tape it to the pole in the position you want it before pouring the concrete so that the bottom will be in the concrete, this helps protect it from lawnmowers and weed-whackers that might otherwise be used too close to the pipe. If you need a pole and have a recycling (scrap metal) yard in your area check there, often they will have some used well casing pipe of the correct diameter, it may be rusty but a little work with a wire brush and/or sandpaper and a coating of Rust-Oleum Rust Reformer followed by a top coat of black spray paint will make it look presentable.

Then there is the positioner motor. If the positioner you have isn't from the dawn of time then chances are it will take a four wire cable. Two wires feed voltage to the motor and should be fairly hefty (I would say #18 minimum, probably #16 would be better and some will even recommend #14, but for long runs you will want even larger) but the other two are just sensor wires and can be smaller, like #20 or #22, though the don't have to be. They deliver pulses from a reed sensor or some other kind of sensor mechanism that sends pulses as the dish moves. I haven't ever had to buy this type of cable, I got a hunk with my first dish that I still use on my one moveable dish, so if anyone else has a recommendation for that type of cable take a look at what they recommend.

Then inside you will need a control box of some kind. I use a V-box which can be controlled with DiSEqC signals from a compatible receiver, but since my only moveable dish mostly says parked in one spot and I only move it if I'm trying to verify what's on another satellite, I just use the remote control to move it. Some people don't like the V-box for various reasons and recommend other solutions, but I've never had any problems with mine (then again I unplug it whenever I'm not actually wanting to move the dish). So I am a little out of my depth when it comes to positioners and controllers, because I move my dish so seldom, but basically that is what you need if you want the dish to be moveable.

And finally, if you want to use your current receiver to receive signals from both of your dishes, and you don't have dual tuner inputs on your receiver (which is pretty rare), you will need a switch of some kind. With only two dishes and one receiver you could use a 22 kHz tone switch, assuming your receiver supports it, or a multi-input DiSEqC switch of whatever type your receiver supports. I'm guessing your receiver will probably support any modern DiSEqC switch and/or a 22 kHz tone switch, but I don't know for sure since I don't own one. Switches can be finicky so I recommend you get one from a trusted dealer in case the first one you get is defective.

Now as I say I am sure some people may disagree with some of what I have said (especially the people who are obsessive about welding all types of stuff onto a pole to make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN it will never twist in the concrete) but hopefully I have covered the basics. You're probably familiar with most of the concepts already, it's pretty much just like Ku except you are dealing with a much larger dish. What I have not covered here are the basics of aiming the dish, because you don't seem to be at that point yet, and there are other posts that explain that.
 
Like Fat Air said, pictures, pictures, pictures! Post up some pictures of what you have and chances are everyone on here can tell you exactly what you have, whether it's nice to use or not, and what you'd need.
 
I disagree with what another poster suggested about using one dish for Ku-band and C-band
That poster is in Belgium and sometimes forgets that FTA there and here is different. :)
 
Like Fat Air said, pictures, pictures, pictures! Post up some pictures of what you have and chances are everyone on here can tell you exactly what you have, whether it's nice to use or not, and what you'd need.

I am cleaning up the parts ad working on an inventory now.
Thank You
 
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That poster is in Belgium and sometimes forgets that FTA there and here is different. :)

My Ku system is stand alone and working fine, i am going to try and start with a basic C band system for now. After I have a better understanding of how it works, I hope to up grade to better stuff.
Thanks
 
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The good thing too is, that you already have the learning curve of FTA and how to work your receiver and know what to look for. :)
This will make going to C-Band so much easier.
 
The good thing too is, that you already have the learning curve of FTA and how to work your receiver and know what to look for. :)
This will make going to C-Band so much easier.

Well Brian thought me all I know about KU. This is a lot of fun, I want to get the basic dish up before it gets to hot down here. This dish will look good with all my HF stuff out back. HI HI.
Thanks
 
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Agree with everyone and everything what was said here, but..... main difference between C-band and Ku-band dishes is that first one will work good only in C-band but very bad in Ku-band. But, contrary, K-band dish will work good in C-band and Ku-band. And that is nothing to do with focal depth of the dish but precision of manufacturing and material used (for C-band dish it is usually mesh). And it is even more nothing to wit location of the dish (USA or elsewhere).

For example, we have 2,4m prime-focus mesh dish and 2,4m offset solid plastic dish. Independently of focal depth (but proper feedhorn used) both dishes will bring same performance in C-band, but in Ku-band first dish will perform much worse than second dish. So, question is: why not use dish which brings you better performance?
 
...
For example, we have 2,4m prime-focus mesh dish and 2,4m offset solid plastic dish. Independently of focal depth (but proper feedhorn used) both dishes will bring same performance in C-band, but in Ku-band first dish will perform much worse than second dish. So, question is: why not use dish which brings you better performance?
Here in North America many of us use a 90 cm solid dish for KU band and a 8-10 foot mesh dish for C-Band.

Why? Solid, precision 2.4 meter dishes which would work for both KU and C-Band are rare here. But used 2.4 to 3m mesh dishes are still available -- mostly under $200 and in many cases free. Its just a matter of modernizing them with a new LNBF and probably replacing an old worn out actuator, which is far less than spending $1000 to $2000 for a new dish.
 
But there's a big difference this side of the pond. 1.8 and 2.4 meter offset dishes, being available, is extremely rare. If found, the shipping costs alone are prohibitive. From halfway across the U.S. is like from Spain to central Norway. But occasionally, they do appear, close.
And those that are found are a fixed, one satellite, mount style. Converting it to a polar, or motorized AZ-El, could easily become an insurmountable endeavor without the aid of a mechanical engineer and metal fabrication specialist.. (welder)....
 
Ok guys here are some photos I have pulled together. Understand, all the wires where cut and the feed horn / lnb assembly and cone had been removed before I got there. So the owner just gave me a box of disassembled parts. The drive motor seems to work well in both directions but needs some more cleaning. And paint, I do not know who made it or what model it is as the label is badly faded. All I can make out is “SKY IGHTER” and it looks like only two control wires where hooked up. The brown was not used? This could very well be wrong as it may have come lose with age. Also the two LNBF’s are new in box. And I was told by the owner that the 650I receiver only works to move the dish. I am showing that in case someone needs the remotes or parts. I would like to get a feed horn lnb set up I can use with my Amiko I think I will need something to move the dish? I do not mind switch the coax from my ku dish to the c band dish (for now.)

Thanks in advance.
 

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Thanks for the photos! The dish looks to be in better condition than how you had described on the phone.

The motor is a SkyLighter brand and no longer manufactured. It looks like it needs a disassembly, cleaning and lube before applying power. A rusted or seized arm could easily damage gears. Once the motor is disassembled from the arm, apply 12Vdc (car battery or charger) to the two heavy wires. This should drive the motor in one direction, then reverse the leads to drive in the opposite direction. If the actuator can be cleaned-up and doesn't have sloppy movement, you might just save several hundred dollars on having to buy another quality actuator.

The feedhorn should clean right up and you could test the polarity servo (blue motor on back of the feedhorn) by connecting the three leads to the rear connectors on the receiver and changing from channel 1 to channel 2 (changing the polarity). The default polarity setting on the 650i should rotate the servo 90 degrees when changing between an odd and even channel number. Typically, the servo motor connections to the receiver are +5Vdc color code is red color, Pulse (Skew) is white and the Ground is black. The shield wire for the ribbon cable is normally left unconnected (open) at the motor and connected to the ground terminal at the receiver or controller.

The C-band LNBs are the larger units and the KU are long and slender. These should still work as long as they were not stored out in the weather, though the LO frequencies often drift with age and the transponder frequencies are often not as published. There should be some O-rings installed between the feedhorn port and the LNBF. The KU LO setting is 10750 and the C-band LNB LO is 5150. You will need a 22KHz or DiSEqC switch to select between C and KU. If you decide not to have KU on this dish, cap the KU feedhorn port.

You may use the 650i receiver to move the dish and control the polarity servo, but it is a pain in the A$$! You will need to select the desired satellite then manually change the polarity to feed the A3. If you decide to keep the feedhorn/servo/LNB assembly for best performance and signal optimization, the ASC1 controller will be the best option to automate the dish movement and the polarity / skew setting with the A3 control similar to how it is now with your KU set-up.

If you decide to remove the feedhorn/servo/LNB assembly and replace with a LNBF like the C1-PLL, then you could buy a less expensive GBox or VBox controller to automate the dish movement and the A3 will directly control the voltage controlled polarity. Notice that the LNBF installation does not allow you to fine-tune the skew for each satellite and polarity. The skew is set at the time of install and unable to fine tune on each satellite without going out to the dish and physically rotating the LNBF.

Hope that this information helps get you started on the project! The ASC1 guide may be helpful as you make connections to the motor, sensor and servo. http://www.titaniumsatellite.com/manuals
 
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