How Dish's 1080p is going to work...

J

jacmyoung

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Jun 30, 2007
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E*, D* and cable provide “signal retransmission” service, they are not in the “signal editing” business. In fact the law prohibits them from editing any content without the express consent of the content owner.
 
8

8bitbytes

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Sep 8, 2003
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Now if and when DirecTV sends out the same 1080p VOD to its subs, it turns out to be OAR, then you can yell at E* for not insisting the same OAR copy from the studio.

I didn't blame E* for DRM - I KNOW where that is coming from and the congressmen involved...

Yes, it's makes sense that Dish is not alowed to P/S the signal - BUT the OAR, whether 4:3 or 21:9 or everything inbetween must be available because they can be found somewhere on one channel or another. Why Dish settles for what the studios are sending is what I would like to know and stupid consumers seems to be the best bet as far as I'm concerned. Just like stretch-o-vision when the same movie is available for OAR or even P/S - why do that? It has to be money.

I'll hold you to the D* comment! :D
 
G

gmcgown

SatelliteGuys Family
Jun 24, 2005
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Fort Worth
Got 612 Download for my 622, finally, but....

On 501 there is no "I am Legend" to select. Is there another 1080p movie choice?
 
Sigma

Sigma

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Mar 30, 2007
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Arkansas
On 501 there is no "I am Legend" to select. Is there another 1080p movie choice?

I was turbo-charged with the new software revision on Monday morning, but I don't see "I Am Legend" or any HD movie to test the 1080P capability either.
Am showing as HDCP compliant in the set-up screen information.

Is there any other channel to run this test on besides 501?
 
Q

Quantum

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Jun 23, 2008
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Here's a question: People seem to be saying here that VoDs are downloaded to the disk. Is this before, or after they are ordered?

If before, they must be taking up massive disk space. If after, it must take forever to download.
 
K

KenB123

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Aug 16, 2007
104
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Northern Illinois
So I was finally upgraded yesterday, and do have the "I Am Legend" rental on channel 501.

I requested the rental and received the 'error' condition, assuming it was not detecting 1080P compatibility. I stopped at that point because I am not sure what downgrade resolution would result.

My setup is a 622 going HDMI to an Onkyo-805 AV-Receiver, and then HDMI from the Onkyo to a Sharp Aquos D92U (full 1080P) set. Same setup flow works in full 1080P glory with a PS3 playing BluRay. I am concerned though about the 24FPS. I don't believe the Sharp supports that.

So has anybody else had success with similar setup? Will this Dish-VOD feature work through an AV-Receiver, or only with direct conection to a 1080P set?
 
Last edited:
Scott Greczkowski

Scott Greczkowski

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Here's a question: People seem to be saying here that VoDs are downloaded to the disk. Is this before, or after they are ordered?

If before, they must be taking up massive disk space. If after, it must take forever to download.
Videos are downloaded before and are sitting on your disc waiting to play. You dont even know they are being downloaded until the download is completed.

For those of you with 501 but no I Am Legend in 1080p make sure your TV is hooked up via HDMI cable and that your television supports HDCP.
 
rglore

rglore

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For those of you with 501 but no I Am Legend in 1080p make sure your TV is hooked up via HDMI cable and that your television supports HDCP.
Both of my HLTxx76S model 1080p Samsungs support 24p1080 and are connected to HDMI. Both of my 622s have many 501 channels but no I Am Legend on either one???

The HDMI diagnostics report on resolutions are off by one place. It shows a non-valid lower resolution and doesn't show the 1080p. I hope Dish is not suppressing the guide display of 1080p based on the HDMI diagnostics that are incorrect.
 
waltinvt

waltinvt

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Feb 16, 2004
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That is very simple, DISH has no capability to pan and scan a signal provided by a source, may that be from HBO, Starz, or directly from the studio. Besides all carriage agreements contain languages that explicitly prohibit a carrier such as E* and D* to alter the source materials.
So does that include adjusting the bitrate or resolution?
jacmyoung said:
That is why I said give me a break. You simply have no idea how things work. They are not allowed to change the source format.
So what is it when the same movie is being shown 4:3 on one channel and "letterbox" on another or Dolby 5.1 on some channels but only stereo on another?

FYI: If you didn't come across as so condescending, you might not appear as such an a$$hole.

jacmyoung said:
They can of course request that the 1080p VOD movie file from the studios be in OAR, but it is up to the studios to decide if they will give E* an OAR copy or not. This is exactly the same when the 24-hour PPV limitation was announced, people like you blamed E* or D*, not knowing it was really not up to them, the studios wanted that limitation so the PPVs did not cut into their DVD sales.
There has historically been a contractually controlled time line for various release venues as much of the production money comes from pre-negotiated release rights. From theater to home video to PPV to premium cable channels to network tv has usually been the order but the greedy studios wanting even more control have found saying "our way or the highway" causes service providers to cave.

Trouble is, somewhere along the line the whole chain forgot that they are absolutely nothing if and when the consumer says "no!" and if they're not careful, that day could be sooner rather than later.
 
K

KenB123

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Aug 16, 2007
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Northern Illinois
Yes. Go to system setup-diagnostics-analysis-hdmi test.
Interesting. I accessed this and found that it recognizes my Onkyo-805 AV-Receiver as the monitor device. I would expect this because I have the 622 HDMI connected to the Onkyo. But it indicates the highest resolution supported by the Onkyo TX-SR805 as being 1080i, which is incorrect. The 805 is fully capable of 1080P passthrough. But if this is what the 622 is detecting (don't know exactly how or why) and it uses this for determing the "I Am Legend" resolution, then I will not get the 1080P.
 
L

lwien

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Apr 10, 2008
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Interesting. I accessed this and found that it recognizes my Onkyo-805 AV-Receiver as the monitor device. I would expect this because I have the 622 HDMI connected to the Onkyo. But it indicates the highest resolution supported by the Onkyo TX-SR805 as being 1080i, which is incorrect. The 805 is fully capable of 1080P passthrough. But if this is what the 622 is detecting (don't know exactly how or why) and it uses this for determing the "I Am Legend" resolution, then I will not get the 1080P.

Welcome to the club. I have my 722 going directly to my 1080p/24 Sony A3000 and I get the same results as you.
 
Q

Quantum

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Jun 23, 2008
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Videos are downloaded before and are sitting on your disc waiting to play. You dont even know they are being downloaded until the download is completed.
So these VoDs must be taking up massive gobs and bucketsfull of my disk space? Space for movies I'm not going to pay for, but need the space for other things? Is there any way to disable this?

(Actually I have a ViP211 with R5000-HD, but the above are questions my customers will ask me)(And BTW, are these VoDs in the same transport stream as the rest of the video? IOW, can I capture it with my R5000-HD+Sage? How are they differentiated?)
 
vjkaty

vjkaty

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I got the not compatable message at first, and then I tried again, to find the movie played flawlessly at 1080 P. I give Dish credit for trying something new.
 
S

Smith P.

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Oct 4, 2003
8,907
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Bay Area, CA
So these VoDs must be taking up massive gobs and bucketsfull of my disk space? Space for movies I'm not going to pay for, but need the space for other things? Is there any way to disable this?

(Actually I have a ViP211 with R5000-HD, but the above are questions my customers will ask me)(And BTW, are these VoDs in the same transport stream as the rest of the video? IOW, can I capture it with my R5000-HD+Sage? How are they differentiated?)

I did post all pertinent info for you - check my last week posts.
 
J

JimP

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Apr 8, 2004
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Wetumpka, AL
So these VoDs must be taking up massive gobs and bucketsfull of my disk space? Space for movies I'm not going to pay for, but need the space for other things? Is there any way to disable this?

(Actually I have a ViP211 with R5000-HD, but the above are questions my customers will ask me)(And BTW, are these VoDs in the same transport stream as the rest of the video? IOW, can I capture it with my R5000-HD+Sage? How are they differentiated?)

I think its in a hidden partitian that you wouldn't have access to for recording your own shows.
 
TheForce

TheForce

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I am pretty darn sure the BD is NOT full 16x9, in fact I am positive of it, which is interesting that Dish would change the aspect ratio.

I look forward to your comparison of BD to Dish 1080p.

rocky- Check out my post #344 in this thread.

I don't believe Dish changes the AR even though I believe it is technically possible to do that on the fly in their MP4 encoder. What would not be an easy task to do is to pan and scan the movie at their end. That would be a task they would have a difficult time justifying the cost. When movies are pan and scanned it is done during the film to tape conversion. The editor sets up a script in a computer that instructs the system to make the pan and scan as well as color corrections on the fly and then the conversion process rips right along but the editor's task setting up that script is a time consuming process. What is possible in an encoder is to have a fixed AR adjustment for the entire program and then that is sent through distribution. I know from conversations with people that actually do this work that the conversion process is done in house at HBO but there are also independent service bureaus that lso can be contracted to do an AR conversion.
AFIK, this is more of a contract issue than a technical one. One of the most interesting cases is where a distribution facility was actually editing out individual frames of a program and over the course of a half hour show, they could generate time space for another 30 second commercial. This time compression done in broadcasting is fascinating from a technical angle but unless you have a contract that forbids this, you may assume that the distributor will take the liberty to do it if they feel money can be made.

The modification of a movie or any program for distribution has legal limitations that would be contract limited, more so than technical limits. I think jacmyoung may have been a bit over the top in his statements as to what can and can't be done. He would have to know the details of every contract negotiated. We all know by their admission that Dish, and likely D* too, was down-resing the movies for distribution. Few people will ever know the true H resolution in any broadcast as that changes from frame to frame. But if you carefully examine the two images I have uploaded, you will see that the images between the BD and VOD are near identical, even down to the variations in the same region of the image indicating film noise to be identical. I feel it would be safe to assume the H resolutions of both are identical. At least in that particular frame of the movie. :)
 
Q

Quantum

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 23, 2008
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I did post all pertinent info for you - check my last week posts.
Np, not a word about disk space for VoD nor location on disk. I went back to the 1st. Must have explained it elsewhere.
 

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