HR21-700/H21 vs HR24/H24

[swzine]

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I did search and didn't see specific comparison. I've been a cable customer all of my life. I had read a lot about the HR24/H24 and decided it was time to switch. Directv.com only shows pictures of those boxes and I assumed ordering directly from them that I'd get those boxes - especially since I was ordering the whole house DVR service. They set up the euquipment today and I got a HR21-700/H21 combination - with a bunch of stupid DECA boxes hanging all over the place! I'm really disappointed. The 24 series is the only reason I switched and I'm stuck with technology from a year or two ago. So my question:

What are the big differnces between these 2? Should I even care? What sold me was the RF remote, which I found that the 21 series has, the hard drive capacity they advertise, which I haven't figured out how to verify, and of course the look and performance of the new box. The menu loads pretty slow. Even my crappy Scientific Atlanta DVR was more responsive. I also liked the built in DECA, but of couse the little adapters accomplish the same thing. Also, I thought the H24 was a little smaller which I liked for where I was placing it. Are the differences betweeen these two units worth worrying about or should i be happy with the 21 series?

 

[dfergie]

Welcome to SatelliteGuys, your post was moderated, the HR24 is supposed to be a much faster box than the HR21, but you get what they give you usually... you can add an external hard drive (that will take the place of the internal) for more capacity.

 

[jaj1701]

I would be disappointed if I was you too. The warnings have abounded here about it, but still, most everyone is getting HR24/H24 for new installs. It was probably a matter of your particular installer having too many HR21/H21s around.

I placed my order online so was able to put in "notes" to the technican. My order (as can be seen in my 5lnb, international, and swm-16 thread) is for 4 HD-DVRs with MRV and the TV Internet Connection Service Fee on the order. I put a not in stating that I will cancel if I don't get all HR24s, especially since I'm paying $100 for one of them and $200 for the other two. If I wanted old slow crap, I'd find "owned" units to buy, like the HR20 I just bought (for the OTA tuner and to have an owned box to slap a bigger hard drive INSIDE of.

If they show up with any but, I'm sending them home. If they want to come the next day with HR24s, ok. If they won't/can't......then I won't be getting service.

That being said, I don't believe you have any recourse. They gave you what they "promised", an HD-DVR and an HD receiver. I agree, they don't show any of the older ones on their website and it's kinda crappy you got stuck with them. I still hope you enjoy your new DirecTV service.


.....oh, and the differences you've pretty much already spelled out. Add to that probably higher temps, more energy consumption, smaller hard drive, and don't look as cool.

 

[wildbill129]

That sucks....there really isn't much you can do now except buy an HR24 yourself and send that one back. You can get them from Amazon and other places but the discounts are gone....

 

[tigerfan33]

I would call Direct and see if they can make an exchange. I cancelled my install today from Direct and went with a local dealer. I was able to talk to them to make sure they are bringing two HR24 and a H24. Like another poster said. I told them that no HR24 and H24 no Direct service for me. Beside Direct was using the same install company that had screwed me over with cancellations and was able to bump up my install from July 24 to this Saturday with the local company.

 

[chargerrich]

Very similar situation. Just switched from Dish when I added a rec and theatre room and was sold on the HR-24 with built in DECA. I am getting two HD DVRs and 3 HD Receivers so for me this was a deal breaker.

I told the rep before I gave him my Amex that I wanted HR-24s and that I would cancel if they were not available. He provided me a number to call and said that I could determine if they were in my area.

Calling the number resulted in a very luke warm experience. The rep had no idea initially what an "HR-24" was and told me that they have no access to the installer or any number to call them (I find this either completely untrue or a horrible way to do business).

In any event, the rep did put a note on my account that HR-24s will be required (no idea if that means anything since I doubt any installer will see it). I went on to tell the rep that if an installer shows up at my home with older units he will not be stepping foot inside my house.

I have gone so far as scheduling my Dish cancellation for the following week just in case this happens.

 

[ryotgz]

I won't be canceling my dish until I know they are installing HR24s here.

 

[Swoop]

And this is exactly why I will not switch, (though I really really want to) until I can be guaranteed to get HR24s. To the OP, personally I think you should call and complain and see if you can get anything done. Being locked in to a contract with inferior substandard equipment would eat at me every day.

 

[SpaethCo]

The installer will call you before they show up at your house -- either the day before, or at a minimum 30 minutes before they're anticipating arriving. You can confirm with them right there whether they have the HR/H24 gear, and you can cancel the install job if they don't.

Now, the folks on the other board will tell you it's a dickish move because it's lost money for the installer, but unfortunately DirecTV has that whole system horribly structured. So I can pay $199 each to get them online (still leased) or I can roll the dice that the installer will have a pair of HR24s in the truck and I'm only out $100 on the new subscriber deal after the equipment credits. For $300 in savings I'm going that route.

I asked and my installer gave me a pair of HR24s when he showed up even though he had older gear in the truck, but I think that having the mast already in, plumb, grounded to code, and all the wiring in place helped my case a bit.

 

[swzine]

I called them today and they gave the same line they give everyone else - that they won't gaurantee any particular unit and if you want something specific then they tell you to go into a retailer. I understand their point of view that they have all kinds of equipment laying around, but I think their advertising is pretty misleading. On their website under equipment they really only show the new equipment. Their customer promise talks about cutting edge technology. While it's still good technology the 24 series is clearly cutting edge. I realize that I could sign up today and something new comes out tomorrow and I'm willing to accept that. I jst figure that when you sign up you should get today's "cutting edge" equipment. I mean I'm stuck with it for 2 years. And their leases are bogus in my opinion. Like how you pay $200 for a piece of equipment that you "lease". It's really kind of like a cell phone agreement - you get a discount for a contract. But they decide to call it a lease - probably so that we can't bring our own device. Whether we owned it or leased it I bet the pricing would be about the same. The lease just makes us return it and pay a bunch of money if we don't. Rather than just keeping it forever and putting on a guest room TV or maybe giving to a friend, selling on ebay, etc.

I realize I'm in a contract with an ETF. I'll probably complain a few more times and more than likely file a complaint with BBB and FTC. The rep who said that they can't gaurantee specific equipment even acknowledged that the website strongly implies you'll get the 24 series. I'm just pretty annoyed because the 24 series was what finally sold me to make the switch, and instead i get the equipment I could have gotten 2 years ago!

Anyone know how to check the hard drive capacity on this thing? I'd really like to know the difference between the hard drive I received and the capacity advertised in the promotion I responded to.

 

[jaj1701]

Anyone know how to check the hard drive capacity on this thing? I'd really like to know the difference between the hard drive I received and the capacity advertised in the promotion I responded to.

I'm sure one of the veterans around here do.....as for me, a newbie, it should have a 320gb hard drive, if my memory serves me right.

Sincerely wishing you all the luck in your battle with DirecTV.

 

[swzine]

I'm sure one of the veterans around here do.....as for me, a newbie, it should have a 320gb hard drive, if my memory serves me right.

Sincerely wishing you all the luck in your battle with DirecTV.

It's not the end of the world if I'm stuck with this equipment. Their service (programming, not customer service) is decent. I'm sure there are some die hard DirecTv fans here, but comparing it against Comcast or Time Warner which I had in the past, I actually don't see much of an edge except the multi room DVR. The fact that you can hook up unlimited TVs without converter boxes had always left me finding cable more cost effective. Comparing DirecTv against my local municipal cable company, DirecTv is much better. Our on demand content was limited and our HD signal often got pixelated.

Basically, I'm just going to make another call or two and then file complaints with the BBB and FTC for misleading advertising. I wish I had read more on these forums before subscribing. I would have paid careful attention and sent the installer on his way. I saw the posts on here after I signed up and I assumed that only the 24 series would support the whole house DVR. I didn't realize the DECA adapters gave the older boxes that functionality.

I told DirecTv when I called them, whether they promise a certain device or not, if the hard drive capacity isn't what was advertised to me it's a pretty simple case of bait and switch. They may say they only promise HD and HD DVR receivers, but the ads they sent state specific DVR capacity levels. If the capacity isn't the same it seems pretty cut and dry. The part that bugs me the most is that I get less than what I expected and i'd be hit with a ETF if I wanted to cancel. There are some customers that don't care if they get a 21 or 24 series - I'm not one of them. They can keep their old junk lying around for them.

I know people say the cable companies are no different, but I don't feel like that's true, because the cable company only charges you the lease fee and not an equipment fee and a lease fee. And you don't have to be in a contract. Although cable companies sometimes trick people into contracts, it's usually only certain promotions, specifically price locking. I had also found that when better devices were (rarely) released, I had no problem bringing it in and swapping it out for the newer model with no fees, contract extensions, tech visits, etc. I just brough it in and said I want the new one.

Not sure I like the 24 series enough to go pay $200 and then pay to "lease" it from them for 2 years on top of that!

 

[jaj1701]

It's not the end of the world if I'm stuck with this equipment. Their service (programming, not customer service) is decent. I'm sure there are some die hard DirecTv fans here, but comparing it against Comcast or Time Warner which I had in the past, I actually don't see much of an edge except the multi room DVR. The fact that you can hook up unlimited TVs without converter boxes had always left me finding cable more cost effective. Comparing DirecTv against my local municipal cable company, DirecTv is much better. Our on demand content was limited and our HD signal often got pixelated.

Basically, I'm just going to make another call or two and then file complaints with the BBB and FTC for misleading advertising. I wish I had read more on these forums before subscribing. I would have paid careful attention and sent the installer on his way. I saw the posts on here after I signed up and I assumed that only the 24 series would support the whole house DVR. I didn't realize the DECA adapters gave the older boxes that functionality.

I told DirecTv when I called them, whether they promise a certain device or not, if the hard drive capacity isn't what was advertised to me it's a pretty simple case of bait and switch. They may say they only promise HD and HD DVR receivers, but the ads they sent state specific DVR capacity levels. If the capacity isn't the same it seems pretty cut and dry. The part that bugs me the most is that I get less than what I expected and i'd be hit with a ETF if I wanted to cancel. There are some customers that don't care if they get a 21 or 24 series - I'm not one of them. They can keep their old junk lying around for them.

I know people say the cable companies are no different, but I don't feel like that's true, because the cable company only charges you the lease fee and not an equipment fee and a lease fee. And you don't have to be in a contract. Although cable companies sometimes trick people into contracts, it's usually only certain promotions, specifically price locking. I had also found that when better devices were (rarely) released, I had no problem bringing it in and swapping it out for the newer model with no fees, contract extensions, tech visits, etc. I just brough it in and said I want the new one.

Not sure I like the 24 series enough to go pay $200 and then pay to "lease" it from them for 2 years on top of that!

Your thoughts are logical. Your missing out on capacity, speed, a slicker looking box, and perhaps a bit of energy costs. Otherwise, at least you get the same functionality, interface, feel, etc.

Worth a fight, yes. Worth an additional $200 of upfront cost.....I would think absolutely not.

 

[swzine]

Well the nice thing about leasing is that it might just break one day! Maybe they'll bring some decent equipment when it does. Not like filing complaints will do much good since cable, satellite, and cell phone companies apparently have the highest rate of customer dissatisfaction and complaints.

It's a little off topic but I can't wait until something new comes along and makes all of the cable and satellite companies just like the phone companies. It seems like the internet has a lot of potential. I really don't understand why there isn't a good service where we can just do al a carte channel subscriptions over the internet in a consolidated pay service similar to cable and satellite. It's really just a matter of time. You can already see how DirecTv is leveraging the internet for VOD. I assume Verizon and AT&T's TV service are like what I'm describing, but they're not available everywhere. It just seems like there is the potential for a market more similar to VOIP - where anyone can sign up from anywhere. We all pretty much have 3-4 choices - the satellite companies, a single local cable company, and sometimes a single local phone company if you're in the right market. I can't wait till there is some real competition one day.

 

[SpaethCo]

It seems like the internet has a lot of potential. I really don't understand why there isn't a good service where we can just do al a carte channel subscriptions over the internet in a consolidated pay service similar to cable and satellite. It's really just a matter of time.

The problem with Internet video is that it's unicast traffic, meaning that every viewer gets their own stream of video. The amount of bandwidth required to deliver video grows linearly with the number of viewers, so 100 viewers requires 100 times more bandwidth than a single user.

So for DirecTV -- they launch a few satellites and start broadcasting their video. Their base operating costs are roughly fixed -- the satellite and uplink operations stay roughly the same regardless of the number of subscribers. With that master feed from space they can keep adding additional homes just by installing receivers and cheap antennas in homes. Their cost:revenue ratio continues to improve the more subscribers they add.

Contrast that to Internet delivery -- now as you grow subscribers you need to continually add servers, bandwidth, and start to engineer complex distributed environments such as those run by Akamai, Limelight, and Google. So your operational costs grow as your subscribers increase, and worse you tend to have performance issues with scale. Just do a quick search to find that a surprisingly large percentage of people are having issues with Youtube buffering or NetFlix streaming. ISPs aren't engineered to provide the kind of bandwidth that would be required for a significant number of people to switch over to all IP-based video delivery. The networks could eventually be scaled to meet this demand, but it would ultimately lead to massive increases in your HSI bill that would likely exceed what you were paying for cable / satellite TV in the first place.

All that said, Internet-based video delivery does have a bright future, just not as a replacement technology for broadcast video. I touched on this a bit here:

SatelliteGuys.US - View Single Post - So who's jumping ship? and a message to Charlie

 

[tigerfan33]

I had forgotten one of the big advantage of Directs dvr's is that you can watch live tv and then watch a recorded program and go back to live tv and rewind where you left off and watch the remainder. That is if the recorded event is not too long. The Dish VIP's, once you started watching the recorded program there was no going back on the live event.

 

[swzine]

I had forgotten one of the big advantage of Directs dvr's is that you can watch live tv and then watch a recorded program and go back to live tv and rewind where you left off and watch the remainder. That is if the recorded event is not too long. The Dish VIP's, once you started watching the recorded program there was no going back on the live event.

That is pretty cool. You can kind of do that with cable on the Scientific Atlanta boxes but you had to have PIP on to keep the buffer. Online scheduling is cool too. I do miss the "live" button on cable. Shocked dtv remotes don't have it. With all of the bs intellectual property laws I bet Someone has a patent. It's also good how you can take it with you when you move - hard not to be in svc area! But I feel until recently sat really only had benefit to sports fans and people in rural areas or who move a lot. The service, pricing, poor customer service etc is pretty comparable for every provider. The improved dvr service is what finally gave them an edge in my eyes.