i need help it can't be this hard

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cabral

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Jan 6, 2009
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tiverton ri
can someone help, i got a 10' KTI bud dish with a chaparral c/ku feedhorn, i picked up a uniden ORB7500 analog reciever ( though old it did come from r.c. distriuting new in orginall box and packing). also got tune up kit from skyvision with there alignment settings. set everything to what they said, polar angle, declination angle, compass readings, elevation, etc. and i still can't get a picture. meter says i got strong signal but i get no picture, if i hit menu on reciever, menu comes up, i can rotate dish, i got 18v from reciever going out, i got 150ma coming from LBN( it had a precision gold label 15 deg. i changed it to a Norsat 15 deg. #8515 that didn't help still no picture). i think i have everything hooked up right, i tried setting the dish due south and rotating east and west on pole mount by hand at differrent elev. angles and polarities and still nothing. i tried hooking up my dsr922 and doing all the same with it and still nothing. tried removing coax from LBN connecting it to cable tv and straight to tv and i get cable so i think coax is good, when i change polarity servo makes noise so i think its working. does anyone have any idea what i am missing.. :(
 
HMMMM........One's first attempt at a C band setup can be daunting, but you said you have a 922, so you have a functioning C band dish already?
There are a couple of prereq's I do before any attempt at alignment.
Know exactly what you are looking for, where it is supposed to be, its freq/polarity and SR if working with DVB.
Arm youself with a list of what channels are on what birds.
Using an analog rx for alignment anymore is pretty precarious, since finding anything is virtually hit and miss. 922s are very slow to respond so you must be VERY patient for a response when making adjustments. Some people use meters. Unless it is a good one, I wouldnt expect much. I prefer a DVB rx over all other setups. They have programmable parameters with memory storage, they have remote control, and they have an audiable tone that increases with desired signal quality. plus there are DVB signals on virtually every bird. Not all are FTA, but those that arent, still serve as good beacons.
Here's one of several DVB lists you will find around. This one if for C band (DVB) -
http://www.global-cm.net/MPEGlistCBandUS.html
There is one here on the board too, linked from the main page, and maintained by input from members.
Get a spiral binder or equiv, highlighter, and keep notes.
Use a sharpie to mark relative rotary position of located satellites to a fixed reference point. Keep notes. You will need a means to locate the relative positions repeatably. Trust me.
Remove as many variables as possible. Splitters and switches can be added back to the configuration when you've got the primary alignment done. For dual band, I recommend working on C band. Ku can be very picky and needs much more precise alignment, which ultimately is a good thing, but adds difficulty to alignment processes.
You mentioned you could here the servo, but could not determine if the polarity was working. If you have a feed cover, remove it and standing behind the dish, I am presuming it is mesh, and look up into the horn. Note the posisition of the 'wire' or 'hook looking' piece. Drive the servo to the other polarity by going to an adjacent channel. The orientation should have changed by ~90 degrees. If it did not move the full distance, it may be being limited by the rx in the skew adjustment setting. Keep in mind unless the dish is at its highest point in the arc,the actual positition is relative to the dish on its positition in the polar tracking assy, not to the actual horizon.
Since you have changed the LNB, you likely have altered the original orientation and may need to tweak the skew adjustments.
One other thing that is especially important on C band is the scaler ring setting. The info on what is needed to do that alignment, along with lots of C band dish related setup tips can be found here. -
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp4.html
It is worth a read and re-read before you take off, since it has a lot of data to absorb and process.
You indicated you were familiar with the 'southermost satellite' instructions. What is your location?
Good luck, keep us posted.
 
thanks melgargar, not sure if i could say dish is functional at this point, it was givin to me by someone who had it on their roof not sure how it came down but im trying to get it to work and its my first dish always had cable. i picked up the 922 from ebay from someone out in washington i live in rhode island 02878, not sure if that means anything but when i tried to find satellites already programmed on 922 it max out dish in both directions without getting to the sat. i did check the scaler ring setting and the focal lenth and F/D ratio and all were already set to were there suppose to be,(dish came from around a mile or two away). did check servo it does rotate 90 degrees. am trying to lock on to w6/k6 thats what skyvision gave me for my highest south sat. at 196.5 degrees on compass reading and 42 degrees on protractor angle, on site data they gave me polar angle of 48.5 degrees and declination angle of 48 degrees (what is the difference between polar angle and protractor angle)? don't know how good the meter im using is (digsat II perfect 10) but i get a strong signal on it when i set up to that heading and i can see it get stronger and weaker as i rotate back and fourth. you said analog reciever is not good for set up but can i piggy back to 922 to use for rotating. also not sure what DVB or DVB rx is? and channels to look for i don't know whats out there need to do some homework on that, skyvision said to look for w3 ch20. but in time if i can get it to work i would like to get a FTA reciever, maybe subscribe for some pay channels, what would i need ?to get history ch, nascar, football, weather, fox, tnt, abc, espn, etc.
well thanks again for your help, time to do more homework
 
Ok,
You said you intend to get an FTA rx (rx=receiver) in the future, but do not have one now. Unless you intend to do that before you do this primary alignment, lets set all that aside for the moment to minimize confusion. BTW, FTA receivers are for receiving DVB (a mode of digital tv/radio modulation) signals.
Since the dish came from withing a few miles of where you intend to use it, the inclination/declination alignment was likely close enough to use without alteration, presuming it was not tampered with prior to you getting it. If you can get back to those points, or close to it that will shortcut a big portion of the setup. The primary factor in those two adjustments is lattitude of operation, so unless the dish was more than +/- 15-20 miles north or south of it's new location the original adjustments are probably close enough the get rough alignment.
Analog signals are pretty sparce, and ones that are continously present even harder to come by. ARTS is one, on tp5/G1/133W, and Dr. Gene Scott and his daughter pastor on analog, somewhere over on the easten end of the arc, I dont recall ATM. Iceberg or some of the other guys could pop in and give you that sat/tp info.
I looked at Lyngsat's............ uh, did anyone tell you about Lyngsat?....http://lyngsat.com/america.html
anyway, I looked at their listing for AMC6 and they dont show anything that is continous for analog. There isnt anything there for the 922 to see either ( but several FTA channels in DVB.:( )
Piggybacking would not change anything, because the 922 is a analog + Digicipher 2 (DCII) unit. Depending on the last time is was in service, may only have the analog side enabled (no channel maps) If it will allow direct remote cotrol input to access channels above 24 then it may be usable to find some non analog signals.
There are some variables that are polarity related that will need to be looked at. Since you have changed the LNB assy you can see that the rotational orientation in the scalar ring can affect the points that the polarotor move the element to. If it is mpt in the right place in the ring the element wont be driven to the proper place. No worries, that is not a difficult fix.
Essentially, you want the element at appx 45 deg of travel (appx center of its adjustable limits) when the receiver has an output that is centered in it's range adjustment for a given polarity. This helps keep you from the edge of the physical limit of the servo to get the best polarity setting for the channel you want to see.
Another variable is the configuration in the unit you are using to control the polarotor. On the 922 Option 6-4-2 shows a page that, amongst other things, lets you rotate the polarotor output signal by 90 deg in software. It doesnt really matter which you end up using, as long as it is in agreement with the physical orientation and limits of the unit outside.
Your conversation with Skyview....did you sub to a package for your 922 thru them? If so that can be an advantage if we can get pointed to the right spot to get the authorization downloaded to the rx. If you have a sub, it would also help to know what exactly you have been authorized to view and where it is.
See if you can get the adjustments back to where you think they originally were, and find a means to be certain that you can determine true south, compensated for magnetic deviation for your area.
Regarding FTA and subscription, all NA providers require that you use an IRD of their design, and do not support aftermarket units. You can sub the 922 (if the info to do so in memory is still intact) to most if not all you listed, and more, and for a better price than you would pay to the pizza pan, LSD (little silly dish) providers.
FTA has a lot of free stuff that you can view without anyone complaining. There are even 'cable type' channels open (unencrypted) from time to time for anyone to watch if they can catch them open. A good source of sports and news uplinks as well. I highly recommend supplementing your setup with an FTA DVB receiver. They are relativity inexpensive anymore, (Ebay'd ~60-75 bucks or less shipped)and for the most part created equal for a given set of features, until you get into the several hundred dollar price range. If you come across one you figure is in your pricerange, and want some input on it, post about it. Chances are somebody on the board has one, or know something about it and can advise you on it.
Get the dish back to it's original settings if possible, if you have a sub, get that info together too, and we will take a look at what you have to work with.
 
i have bin on that dishpionter.com web site before and its were im pointing. i have doubled and triple checked everything it seems to be lined up right to specs, would it be better to setup with FTA reciever?
 
i have bin on that dishpionter.com web site before and its were im pointing. i have doubled and triple checked everything it seems to be lined up right to specs, would it be better to setup with FTA reciever?

Dont take the markings to do an alignment literal. They are an in the neighborhood reference, meaning set there initially, and begin tweaking.
I believe an FTA aka DVB receiver is far superior for alignment these days. (If analog was still abundant that would only apply to birds that have no analog signals.) IMHO, the only thing that would exceed that is a spectrum analyzer, which is a more sophisticated (and more expensive) type of computer assisted meter, and not a common tool for the 'casual FTA/satellite' watcher.
If you have or have access to an FTA box, it would make this task a lot simpler. Once you get a signal on AMC 6 with the dish pointed true south, the rest will fall in place after a few passes and adjustments across the arc.
Were you able to return the inclination and declination adjustments to near their original setting? Study the info on the link I posted, especially the graphic at the bottom that show the different plots of Clarke Belt arc vs inclination/declination adjustments. Once you get your head around how that is all related, you should be able to make adjustments using a receiver that is programmed to known channels that are on the various satellites, and anticipating the direction and amount of adjustment needed. Tedious, well, yeah, especially until you get familiar with doing it, but there is nothing like the feeling of accomplishment you get when that first signal is locked, scans in, and is displayed.
I'm sure you've also read that a perfectly plumb and stable pipe is imperitive for proper arc tracking. If it is not you will never get aligned on the entire arc. This is true for all automated dishes, Ku as well.
 
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