In laymans terms, why no VIP integration with Hopper
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No the ViP's do not feature the chipset or tuner / modulator for MoCA which is the heart of the Hopper / Joey system.
even if it takes 10 years, there has to be some point where you draw the line between legacy installations and future installations.
cobbling together a mixed new/legacy system has long term consequences/costs.
The Hopper is the future of the company. the ViP is a thing of the past.
Time for them to start worrying about adopting to the past and moving ahead looking to the future.
Quite aggressive I must say, some may not like it and I understand that, but I think its a move they need to make.
Then E* really needs to think this through again. If they are going to obsolete my equipment and tell me that the only upgrade path is a H/J system at three times the cost of an equivalent D* system, guess what "move" I'll be making.
I'm sure you weren't referring to my reason.
I never said it would be overnight, and yes, it will take years and cost millions, but at least it could be an orderly, manageable process. And like you said, there are probably other reasons that we haven't thought of yet.
It will probably also help Dish change the western arc to 8PSK, perhaps even MPEG-4 some day... All the returned VIP receivers can be used to replace all the old non 8PSK boxes. There are going to be a lot of Dish customers that do not really care to get the Hopper/Joey (like single TV households). Now they can just get a VIP box to replace their old equipment that Dish got back from a Hopper upgrader.
I bet all the returned VIP receivers find a new home.
I bet all the returned VIP receivers find a new home.
I don't by the "stacking" problem as the reason for the reason Scott cited. Over the years, I have ALWAYS been told by Dish that if any ONE of my 6 boxes is EVER at anytime (during the call homes) NOT connected to my broadband or telephone, they will SHUT down all my boxes. I would then have call Dish and get them reauthorized. So, Dish could say no NEW customer installs are ViP but current subs grandfathered in, so I don't buy the "stacking" reason.
IMHO, I think Dish is trying to put the best, fuller featured system in as many homes as possible to give everyone the best possible experiece with Dish service that would help reduce churn due to the diminished experience for the current ViP's. This strategy would not be for the Power Users, but for the masses who don't understand what's going on or all the tech Dish has to choose from. If Dish can get a system that has the latest eye candy UI with cover art, etc. and with the PTA feature and the ability to address the biggest issue of FULL HD in other rooms and being able to watch whatever in any other room in the house in FULL HD, that gives less reasons for subs to change to a competitor as the Hopper system is at least as good, if not better than, any competitor today.
Also, the other reasons of reducing costs and troubles with supporting so many models out there would seem to make economic sense. Dish is going to stake everything on the Hopper system and it will be the STANDARD for all installations at some point.
All, IMHO.
IMHO, I think Dish is trying to put the best, fuller featured system in as many homes as possible to give everyone the best possible experiece with Dish service that would help reduce churn due to the diminished experience for the current ViP's. This strategy would not be for the Power Users, but for the masses who don't understand what's going on or all the tech Dish has to choose from. If Dish can get a system that has the latest eye candy UI with cover art, etc. and with the PTA feature and the ability to address the biggest issue of FULL HD in other rooms and being able to watch whatever in any other room in the house in FULL HD, that gives less reasons for subs to change to a competitor as the Hopper system is at least as good, if not better than, any competitor today.
Also, the other reasons of reducing costs and troubles with supporting so many models out there would seem to make economic sense. Dish is going to stake everything on the Hopper system and it will be the STANDARD for all installations at some point.
All, IMHO.
I think Mike may have hit on the true reason they are not allowing mixed installations.
I agree. It makes some sense. Not enough to p*** off so many of us but some sense none the less.
There not a-holes, just none too bright.
To me you guys are answering why new customers can't have a mixed set-up. I don't think it explains why an existing customer couldn't keep say one VIP on the system, it appears it can be done.
If you told me only WA people with the older codec receivers had to switch that would make sense.
If you told me only WA people with the older codec receivers had to switch that would make sense.
Someone could still stack one hopper and one joey at two locations.. So not how much this cuts down.
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Very unlikely unless the locations were adjacent. You are looking at 2-19mbit/sec transfer rates. Even if you have a fast internet and a MOCA bridge, it probably would not work. Remember the joey does not have a tuner and is worthless unless it can talk to the Hopper at high speed.
I have to believe when all the dust settles and the product is in the field for a while, DISH will find a way to add perhaps 1 VIP to a Hopper/Joey setup. Only makes sense that they're not going to put Hoppers & Joeys in RV's.
In theory, and assuming the hopper/joey is using TCP/IP over the MoCA network it would be possible to bridge a ViP receiver in with a MoCA / Ethernet bridge. However, that doesn't speak one iota towards the software stack issues that this brings about. Also, it is possible to run alternative network stacks besides TCP/IP but that is unlikely as they are very rare these days.
Dish has the right to operate their business in any way they desire so long as they don't break applicable laws and regulations. We might not like the decision to not allow mixed ViP / XiP (Hopper Joey) installations but they are not violating any applicable laws or regulations. Whether or not that's a good business practice remains to be seen.
Come on, guys, isn't it really all about the money? Think about it, Dish has a great big "analog hole" out there now with all the VIPs serving out SD over RF to multiple TVs. Let's say you have a house with a couple of HDTVs and four older SDTVs, all in use every day. Worst case right now, you'd have two VIP DVRs, each serving one HDTV and two SDTVs. This would cost you $6 (DVR fee) plus $17 (extra 2-tuner DVR) every month. Fast-forward to the H-J system: Now, you need two hoppers and four joeys, to the tune of ($6 DVR + $4 whole-house + 5x$7 extra receiver fees) = $45/mo! If you're Dish, you've just basically doubled your monthly income in fees. Conversely, if you let the customer keep one VIP DVR, he's can still feed all four of his SDTVs from the VIP if he wants to (probably wouldn't want to, but this is just an example), and his only increase would be the $4 whole-house fee.
The point is that mixing H-Js and VIPs costs Dish money in lost fees. Some of the other reasons listed in this thread are valid, also, but I think the potential increase in equipment fees is too much for them to pass up.
All this being said, I really wouldn't be surprised if they end up making some exceptions to "certain" customers. An RV exception would certainly make sense, for example (IMO). In addition, an exception for owned equipment would be a great good-will gesture (maybe only for "existing" owned equipment).
Brad
The point is that mixing H-Js and VIPs costs Dish money in lost fees. Some of the other reasons listed in this thread are valid, also, but I think the potential increase in equipment fees is too much for them to pass up.
All this being said, I really wouldn't be surprised if they end up making some exceptions to "certain" customers. An RV exception would certainly make sense, for example (IMO). In addition, an exception for owned equipment would be a great good-will gesture (maybe only for "existing" owned equipment).
Brad
Brad:
The catch here is that you would need more than 2 Dual Tuner DVRS to feed these TVs independently. With only 2 Dual Tuner DVRs you have to be mirroring programming on the SDTVs. For each to have independent viewing, you'd need 3 Dual Tuner DVRs @ $34/month.
Regards,
The catch here is that you would need more than 2 Dual Tuner DVRS to feed these TVs independently. With only 2 Dual Tuner DVRs you have to be mirroring programming on the SDTVs. For each to have independent viewing, you'd need 3 Dual Tuner DVRs @ $34/month.
Regards,
