Installer Wants Me to Put In a 3" Pipe

[cobraman]

I want to make the move from E to D since the pricing seems to be more reasonable in order to get back the channels I want with the deals that D is offering in my area to get business back. I had an installer here yesterday and he wants to move my current pole a few feet in the yard to correct a LOS issue and is requesting I locate and install a 9' piece of 3" pipe 3 feet into the ground with concrete and rebar before I call him back to do the install. This sounds to me like he is trying to get out of doing the work and overkill on the mounting pipe.

Thoughts? I am already going to have to pay for a 2nd DVR and an AM21 just to keep the same recording capabilities I have with E now. Maybe I should just stick with E.

 

[raoul5788]

I want to make the move from E to D since the pricing seems to be more reasonable in order to get back the channels I want with the deals that D is offering in my area to get business back. I had an installer here yesterday and he wants to move my current pole a few feet in the yard to correct a LOS issue and is requesting I locate and install a 9' piece of 3" pipe 3 feet into the ground with concrete and rebar before I call him back to do the install. This sounds to me like he is trying to get out of doing the work and overkill on the mounting pipe.

Thoughts? I am already going to have to pay for a 2nd DVR and an AM21 just to keep the same recording capabilities I have with E now. Maybe I should just stick with E.

Are you sure he said 3" and not 2"? 2" is the correct size for the hd pole. The height and depth are dependent on where you are and what the los issue is. BTW, if he says the pole must be moved for los issues, normally the install for the pole is free. Only if you request a pole mount for aesthetic or other reasons do you have to pay. The concrete is necessary, and you should at least flatten the bottom of the pole to keep it from spinning. You can also put a bolt or rebar through the base. It's critical that the pole be plumb.

 

[Jimbo]

He had better said 2" .... I would hate to be told to put a 3" pole in and he comes out and it's the wrong size ... then again, I'm not sure why the installer didn't do it in the first place seeing they usually have poles on their trucks anyways.

 

[cobraman]

Nope, he specifically said three inch and was going to use an adapter to mount the dish to the pipe. Was not too impressed with the guy anyway since he didn't even know that you could hook an AM21 into the DVR and record OTA. Maybe I should ask for another installer.

 

[stonecold]

1. As others said before it 2" not 3 so tech wrong there.
2. Any tech who does not know what a AM21 can do and that it works with DVRs should go back to installer school.
3. While I am not a tech I was tought the 1/3 rule with pole mounts So a 6 foot 2" OD pip would go down 2 feet or approx 18" to 24" and stick approx 4 feet out of the ground . I dont know if this or true or not but my favorite disgruntled tech buddy Joe will probably show up soon to give his insight as he one of our most experienced installers around here.

 

[raoul5788]

1. As others said before it 2" not 3 so tech wrong there.
2. Any tech who does not know what a AM21 can do and that it works with DVRs should go back to installer school.
3. While I am not a tech I was tought the 1/3 rule with pole mounts So a 6 foot 2" OD pip would go down 2 feet or approx 18" to 24" and stick approx 4 feet out of the ground . I dont know if this or true or not but my favorite disgruntled tech buddy Joe will probably show up soon to give his insight as he one of our most experienced installers around here.

The real rule is you have to have it deep enough to go below the frost line. Then you need enough above ground to avoid los issues. I have heard that 5-6' is about the maximum, but I have 9' exposed. It's been that way for over 2 years, so I think it's going to be okay for a good long time!

 

[Jimbo]

1. As others said before it 2" not 3 so tech wrong there.
2. Any tech who does not know what a AM21 can do and that it works with DVRs should go back to installer school.
3. While I am not a tech I was tought the 1/3 rule with pole mounts So a 6 foot 2" OD pip would go down 2 feet or approx 18" to 24" and stick approx 4 feet out of the ground . I dont know if this or true or not but my favorite disgruntled tech buddy Joe will probably show up soon to give his insight as he one of our most experienced installers around here.

Not sure about # 3 there .... I have a 16' post mine is on and I went down 30".
13' exposed, supported at the roof line.
80# concrete and a rod in the bottom to prevent spinning, which isn't going to happen anyways because of it being supported at the roof.

However, I don't think I have ever seen/heard of a tech putting in a pole that large.

Obviously it was a CUSTOM job, done by Me !

 

[tvropro]

Not sure about # 3 there .... I have a 16' post mine is on and I went down 30".
13' exposed, supported at the roof line.
80# concrete and a rod in the bottom to prevent spinning, which isn't going to happen anyways because of it being supported at the roof.

However, I don't think I have ever seen/heard of a tech putting in a pole that large.

Obviously it was a CUSTOM job, done by Me !

Good install, but kinda overkill for the size of the direct Slimeline dish. You may as well toss an Alaska Hawaii dish up there. My bud is 4" OD schedule 80 pipe, 6 feet in the ground and 11 feet above attached at the garage roof for twisting. Pole is filled with concrete too. My 90cm for Direct is a 7 foot 3" OD pipe, 3 feet in the ground, double rebar X pattern for twisting. 4 feet above and filled with concrete. Talking about bigger dishes for Direct, I was talking with a professional that knows his stuff about what size is the best for rain fade. He said a 6 foot is needed. That's interesting I may look into that next year.

 

[stonecold]

The real rule is you have to have it deep enough to go below the frost line. Then you need enough above ground to avoid los issues. I have heard that 5-6' is about the maximum, but I have 9' exposed. It's been that way for over 2 years, so I think it's going to be okay for a good long time!

Well Florida does have a frost line.

 

[Jimbo]

Does D* have 6' slimline dish available ?
I bet it would cost some money.... remember, needs to see the 99, 101 and 103 sats.

 

[tvropro]

Does D* have 6' slimline dish available ?
I bet it would cost some money.... remember, needs to see the 99, 101 and 103 sats.

Direct only carries the Alaska Hawaii 1.2 meter that covers the 3 birds, Since I'm only interested in 101 since I only have SD a six foot would be easy to set up. It would probably be able to mount on my 3" pole with no modifications. All I would need to add is the DBS LNBF. I bet it would really smoke. I know Iceberg uses a 6 foot for regular ku maybe he can let us know how well it does in the rain. Remember DBS has double the power than FSS ku so you already have a 3 db edge.

If I had the time and bucks I would like to experiment with three 6 foot dishes on 99, 101, & 103 and combine them to one coax to a H-24. I bet you that would work awesome.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Stoneman,

How be it?

While this one is strange there is some logic mixed in.

First, the 1/3 rule is probably ok...it comes from the fencing industry and is in building codes perhaps as a guide. IF you install a ten foot pole (standard sizes are 8 & 10 ft) it would go into the ground two or three feet. IF you fail to dent the steel pole or put a clamp on it where it the concrete no amount of depth will stop the dish from spinning eventually...under some conditions. The same applies..even with a big dent if you even attempt to install the pole near a recently back filled foundation. Other soil conditions are equally non bearing. The mutts who just pound the pole in have no chance of success. One thing is for sure...and here is the disgruntled tech part.....if the pole spins...even after being hit with a lawn mower...the tech will have money deducted.

Then there is the logic in this. The 3" OD pole...much like the old Primestar pole.....can be rammed into the ground and concreted without worry about the need for being plumb. If the pole is plumb the tuning operation is EZ. The adapter mentioned will slide on the 3" pole and can be set plumb prior to attaching the dish to the two inch adapter.

I don't get the reason for postponing the installation. Perhaps cx refused to pay the $75.00 + charge for the pole in concrete and this was an offer for the customer to do it themselves. IF the tech needed 9 foot vertical clearance the pole must be ....wait for it...one third the vertical height.... but as you go up 25% looks better because you will be adding braces anyway. Perhaps the HSP wouldn't go for the extra engineering?

My record is a twenty foot 6x6 dug in four feet with twelve #80 concrete dumbed fast because the hole was filling with water. The two degree braces also went into concrete. The entire wooden pole needed to be covered with shingles to prevent sun warping. The local HSP had said no line of sight. While I was working DISH showed up to remove a 500 rig from the roof that clearly would not work....but I digress.

Still don't get the why of the tall 3" pole.

Joe

 

[Jimbo]

Direct only carries the Alaska Hawaii 1.2 meter that covers the 3 birds, Since I'm only interested in 101 since I only have SD a six foot would be easy to set up. It would probably be able to mount on my 3" pole with no modifications. All I would need to add is the DBS LNBF. I bet it would really smoke. I know Iceberg uses a 6 foot for regular ku maybe he can let us know how well it does in the rain. Remember DBS has double the power than FSS ku so you already have a 3 db edge.

If I had the time and bucks I would like to experiment with three 6 foot dishes on 99, 101, & 103 and combine them to one coax to a H-24. I bet you that would work awesome.

If they made 1 6' dish that handles all three sats, that I would be interested in .... 3 6' dishes to do it, I'm NOT interested in.

 

[tvropro]

If they made 1 6' dish that handles all three sats, that I would be interested in .... 3 6' dishes to do it, I'm NOT interested in.

Direct only make up to a 1.2 meter even for their commercial installs. Most commercial installers with customers that need more gain improvise. Anyone who is worth there weight in gold as a commercial installer knows to design a link budget before they install. If the gain needed calls for a larger dish or multiple dishes it's done. I love to experiment and don't mind a dish farm. It is not what the consumer wants though. Some think the Slimline is too big. So it's a trade off, you can't get performance out of a small reflector on ku band during bad weather conditions so 99% of consumers have to accept this. The other 1% don't and get something that works. The only way a small reflector would work is they would have to use birds with thousands of watts, that won't happen so you need to fix the problem at the receive end. It's fun to experiment and overcome a problem.

 

[Joe Diamond]

I think you would need a dish you could bend to focus all the sats. There might be a chance with the 99, 101 & 103.......maybe from an old Pstar dish but the focal distance out the arm would have to be adjusted. Might be inventing something that is already available.

Joe

 

[Jimbo]

Direct only make up to a 1.2 meter even for their commercial installs. Most commercial installers with customers that need more gain improvise. Anyone who is worth there weight in gold as a commercial installer knows to design a link budget before they install. If the gain needed calls for a larger dish or multiple dishes it's done. I love to experiment and don't mind a dish farm. It is not what the consumer wants though. Some think the Slimline is too big. So it's a trade off, you can't get performance out of a small reflector on ku band during bad weather conditions so 99% of consumers have to accept this. The other 1% don't and get something that works. The only way a small reflector would work is they would have to use birds with thousands of watts, that won't happen so you need to fix the problem at the receive end. It's fun to experiment and overcome a problem.

So they don't make a 99,101 and 103 LNB to fit the 1.2m dish ?

 

[tvropro]

So they don't make a 99,101 and 103 LNB to fit the 1.2m dish ?

Yes they do:

DTV 99 | 101 | 103 DIRECTV LNB Kit | Alaska | Hawaii [dtv-DTVAHKAKUKIT] - $119.99 : The Satellite Shop, Satellite Equipment - TV Dish Programming

The reason I was talking 6 foot offset (1.8), is because that has more gain than a 1.2 (4 foot). And being recommended by Mike Kohl (Mike knows his stuff). Being focused on one bird at a time is always better that using a multi focused feed. What were looking for is a margin so when attenuation sets in due to poor weather we stay up while everyone else watches 721.

 

[stonecold]

Yes they do:

DTV 99 | 101 | 103 DIRECTV LNB Kit | Alaska | Hawaii [dtv-DTVAHKAKUKIT] - $119.99 : The Satellite Shop, Satellite Equipment - TV Dish Programming

The reason I was talking 6 foot offset (1.8), is because that has more gain than a 1.2 (4 foot). And being recommended by Mike Kohl (Mike knows his stuff). Being focused on one bird at a time is always better that using a multi focused feed. What were looking for is a margin so when attenuation sets in due to poor weather we stay up while everyone else watches 721.

Umm that would be 771

771 SFSS *Searching for Satellite Signal
721 Channel not authorized
722 Authorizations have expired
732,733,736 - no phone or internet connection pluged in for ppv. Or ippv been disabled on dtv side.


Those are the most common ones.

 

[tvropro]

Umm that would be 771

771 SFSS *Searching for Satellite Signal
721 Channel not authorized
722 Authorizations have expired
732,733,736 - no phone or internet connection pluged in for ppv. Or ippv been disabled on dtv side.


Those are the most common ones.

Cut me some slack Stonecold I only had Direct since June, I'm not up on all the high tech lingo you old timers are Ask me about C band or FTA and I can write a book, but as far as pizza goes I'm a newbie. Always willing to learn and improve the system if I can.

Direct should come up with a polite message instead of 771 that's says "Its raining cat's and dogs out there. You'll have to go read a book for a while" I'm sorry I'm so hard on this rainfade issue. You have to understand I come from C band only for subs since 1987. I would watch the bud with the floodgates open and still peg the signal quality meter. When the weather is bad outside one usually watches tv. I like to be able to view a whole show or movie instead of the signal going in and out, quite aggravating. I'm planning on moving some subs back to C band next year when my first year price runs out and I will downgrade Direct's package. At least then I will be able to enjoy something I pay for during storms. Right now with nothing subbed on the 4DTV the pickings are slim even on DVB. (need that S2 receiver)

 

[raoul5788]

Cut me some slack Stonecold I only had Direct since June, I'm not up on all the high tech lingo you old timers are Ask me about C band or FTA and I can write a book, but as far as pizza goes I'm a newbie. Always willing to learn and improve the system if I can.

Direct should come up with a polite message instead of 771 that's says "Its raining cat's and dogs out there. You'll have to go read a book for a while" I'm sorry I'm so hard on this rainfade issue. You have to understand I come from C band only for subs since 1987. I would watch the bud with the floodgates open and still peg the signal quality meter. When the weather is bad outside one usually watches tv. I like to be able to view a whole show or movie instead of the signal going in and out, quite aggravating. I'm planning on moving some subs back to C band next year when my first year price runs out and I will downgrade Direct's package. At least then I will be able to enjoy something I pay for during storms. Right now with nothing subbed on the 4DTV the pickings are slim even on DVB. (need that S2 receiver)

Does it rain that much in Chicago?