Installers: Alternative to Diplexing a line with 5LNB dish

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aec4

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Oct 26, 2005
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I know with MPEG 4 you can not diplex a line to run OTA or Cable (my case) on it.

In my second floor office, we have cable come through for the cable modem and also telephone, and it must come here. It can not go to the 1st floor and use wireless, because, wireless is 2-3X slower than being hard wired, and for the work I do, I need to be hard-wired to get the upload stream around 950kbps that my provider gives.

Are there alternatives? I figure I could run a second line, which I wouldn't object to doing before the installer gets here (otherwise, he's just giving me the receiver... no dish). However, being on the second floor complicates things. It would be very hard to fish the line from here to the basement, so I can run it by the other connections, right?

Another alternative would be to run a line from the guest room to here, and not have a box in the guest room. It would be a long run, but I could pin it to the molding around the entire room, into the closet, and then through that wall into this room. Not something I want to do.

Does the 6X8 multiswitch allow for OTA or Cable to run through it as well? If so, how do you "diplex" it out on the other side if a diplexer can not be used?

Are there any other alternatives?

Please help. The guy is coming Monday and I want to know if I can put the dish up or not. I figure I'll ask here because who knows if a competent installer is coming or not.
 

dragon002

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Mar 7, 2005
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save yourself some headaches, fish a run of rg6 to the basement. you will thank yourself later . and save some $$$$ too
 

aec4

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Oct 26, 2005
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dragon002 said:
save yourself some headaches, fish a run of rg6 to the basement. you will thank yourself later . and save some $$$$ too
Is it possible to fish threw 2 floors? If so, how do I get through the floor boards of the second floor? Obviously, on the first floor, I can just drill up from the basement right where the first wire goes up.

My preferred method would be an additional wire so I can get the cable company off my back for diplexing their signal. It's funny how they claim "you will never get good performance" that way, yet, the last time their tech was here installing the VoIP modem, he did a performance test (didn't know about the diplexing) and said, "This is the fastest I've seen in this neighborhood"

Will Fish Wire puncture the floor boards? I don't think so. I'd rather do the wiring inside over the installer just because Iknow they make a mess.
 

dragon002

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Mar 7, 2005
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i AM an installing tech. we arent all hacks....

where does the coax for your internet come from?? the basement??

if it does, try to tape two runs of rg6 to it in the basement and pull it up to the 2nd floor, if it works you are in business, if not, just reattach the modem run in the basement. then start back at square 1. it is worth a try.

one more thing, is there a heating or return air duct in the room??? see where im going with that one??
 
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aec4

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Oct 26, 2005
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dragon002 said:
i AM an installing tech. we arent all hacks....
where does the coax for your internet come from?? the basement??
if it does, try to tape two runs of rg6 to it in the basement and pull it up to the 2nd floor, if it works you are in business, if not, just reattach the modem run in the basement. then start back at square 1. it is worth a try.
one more thing, is there a heating or return air duct in the room??? see where im going with that one??
There is a heating duct in the room.. in the ceiling... You want me to run it through there? That's certainly a possibility, but not something my wife would be too happy about.

The cable and D* connection is on the side of the house. The lines from the house end out there too, they connect to the appropriate D* or Cable lines, and come into the basement, and run to where they need to run in the house. I was thinking I could run another line from that location, around the the basement (where a lot of wires are run) to the spot, and go straight up. Of course, I'd fish from up here to the basement as that would be easier to find the starting spot. There is already a line here.

I am not 100% on board (understanding I mean) with what you mean about taping 2 runs together.. I see where that may be easier, but how am I going to pull this existing line through any further?

--

By the way, I definitely do not think you are ALL hacks. The last guy who was here was AWESOME and knew what he was doing. However, the 2 guys before them had no idea. The one guy put hand prints all over one of my inside walls and then claimed he didn't do it.
 

VinPro

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Aug 1, 2005
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Clifton, NJ
aec4 said:
I am not 100% on board (understanding I mean) with what you mean about taping 2 runs together.. I see where that may be easier, but how am I going to pull this existing line through any further?
If you're trying to get another line to the 2nd floor, tape two additional lines to the end of the existing line (in the basement), then pull from the 2nd floor.....if there's enough room for two lines to fit in the opening that the one line currently occupies you'll end up with 2 new lines replacing the original one.
 

aec4

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Oct 26, 2005
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little dish guy said:
Supposedly the 250-750mhz LNB output range is not used until 2007, why not diplex now until you figure something else out?
Bob
I didn't know that. As long as I can diplex it until I figure out how to run another line, that would be fine with me. That would take the "time crunch" off fishing the line. With a newborn, anything to fix time crunch works for me :)

I stillwould like a separate line to shut the cable company up like I said before. Maybe by 2007, someone will come up with a diplexer like thing for this new dish?
 

little dish guy

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Oct 6, 2005
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Bakersfield, CA
Diplexing on the new dish has not been tried as far as I know but there should be no technical reason for it not to work before 2007. The LNB will have a small noise hump in the 250-750mhz range but the diplexer should filter this out before off air insertion. If you try this, please post the results as many people could benefit if it works.
Bob
 

aaronwt

New Member
Jul 12, 2005
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aec4 said:
It can not go to the 1st floor and use wireless, because, wireless is 2-3X slower than being hard wired, and for the work I do, I need to be hard-wired to get the upload stream around 950kbps that my provider gives.
Are there alternatives?
You must have something connected wrong if you can't get 950kbs using wireless. That is pretty slow. The wireless connection, up and down, should be faster than any speed an ISP can give you.
 

themase

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Mar 30, 2005
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aaronwt said:
You must have something connected wrong if you can't get 950kbs using wireless. That is pretty slow. The wireless connection, up and down, should be faster than any speed an ISP can give you.


I agree and, for the record, the slowest wireless is 11mbits. Even figuring if you get farther from the access point it may drop to 5 mbits, still much faster then your max upload speed of 950kbs. If your interenet speed is your only concern, wireless would be a whole lot less of a headache for you.
 

aec4

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Oct 26, 2005
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aaronwt said:
You must have something connected wrong if you can't get 950kbs using wireless. That is pretty slow. The wireless connection, up and down, should be faster than any speed an ISP can give you.
UPSTREAM. Not downstream. My cable provider, even hard wired only offers 950 kbps UPSTREAM.

I get 5.6 mbps downstream.

Trust me, NOTHING is connected wrong. I do this stuff for a living.
 

aec4

Thread Starter
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Oct 26, 2005
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themase said:
I agree and, for the record, the slowest wireless is 11mbits. Even figuring if you get farther from the access point it may drop to 5 mbits, still much faster then your max upload speed of 950kbs. If your interenet speed is your only concern, wireless would be a whole lot less of a headache for you.

Connect via wireless and upload and download a 100 MB file. note the time.

Now do the same thing on a 100 MB file hard wired. note the time.

Yes, those are the size files I work with daily.

When on a hard wired lan, you will get better performance. That's a fact. The file needs to be sent over your wireless lan to the router at the wireless speed, then it goes over the internet. When hard wired, it goes on a 100 mbit line, which is much faster. Believe it or not, you can notice that time difference.
 

Mike500

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Sep 7, 2003
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Thiepval
Running cables in existing walls is my specialty. I've done it for over 30 years.

The simplest cases are walls in houses built with one wall directly above another, especially with interior walls. Some cathedral ceilings are difficult, but not impossible, although minor cutting and wall repair is necessary. Exterior walls are a little more difficult. Vinyl siding makes an exterior wall wall fish easier.

Since there are so many variations and techniques may be specific, describing all of them here would be very lengthy. Any specfic questions that a poster may have is welcome.
 

mammothskier

SatelliteGuys Family
May 20, 2004
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themase said:
I agree and, for the record, the slowest wireless is 11mbits.
For the record, the slowest 802.11b/g speed is 1Mbps. And this is the physical link speed. The actual data speed would be around 700 kbps in case of no interference. If there are many access points around, or interference from 2.4MHz cordless phones, the data transfer can go below 100kbps.

I have to admit though, that reasonably modern gear in a wooden frame house would give at least 18-24 Mbps between floors.
 

homthtr

Well-Known SatelliteGuys Member
Mar 1, 2005
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Same comment here... What wireless are you using? 802.11B I'm assuming? Just Upgrade to the the new 802.11G Even without the speedboost I'm networked at the full 54 Mbps. Which is faster than the Cable modem.
 

aec4

Thread Starter
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Oct 26, 2005
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homthtr said:
Same comment here... What wireless are you using? 802.11B I'm assuming? Just Upgrade to the the new 802.11G Even without the speedboost I'm networked at the full 54 Mbps. Which is faster than the Cable modem.
I'll repeat.

You will NEVER get the performance of a wired connection with a wireless connection. If you could, why isn't every shop in america wireless?

Yes, with 802.11G you can get good performance... acceptable performance. However download a 100 MB file and see the difference. 4 minutes turns into 9.
 

aec4

Thread Starter
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Oct 26, 2005
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Here is the one thing I can't get about this board, and it's getting very annoying.

Why do people think they should criticize what you want to do instead of just answering your question? I was wondering if there is an alternative to diplexing a line. Is the only diplexing running more rg6? If so,great. Someone offered up the wireless idea, but that STILL requires getting the line into the house. Of course, if I did it I could run LESS RG6, but I would still need to run RG6 so it really isn't a solution.

When I mention that, instead of more ideas coming around, this thread morphs into a debate on how great wireless is. Noone in their right mind can think a wireless connection is as fast as a hard wired connection. However, this thread goes on and on about that instead of trying to address the problem.

I'll state the real problem again.

I want my cable modem/voip and DirecTV to come into this room. Currently, I run them on the same line diplexing the line on both ends to get the signals up here. With the 5LNB dish, diplexing is not an option. Is there an alternate solution?
 

dragon002

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Mar 7, 2005
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DONORA PA
short of wall fishing. no. you could use an exposed exterior coax run, but you don't seem to want to.
there is one more option. a set of wireless remote extenders (pyramids, rabbits are trade names) AND a set of wireless video extenders from radio shack. then place the IRD where it is convenient and watch away!
other than that, you are out of options.
 
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