Is this a Dumb Idea?

[smakovits]

I am working to finish my basement, in the process, I am moving my SAT box to a new location in the living room (a completely different project, but the lady wants it in the other corner, so before the ceiling in the basement goes in I figure it is easier to make this switch now). Long story short, during this process I am re-using some RG-6 which was left from the cable that use to be in the house, so I am messing around with things, and I notice some RG-59 in my system now.

I realize this goes to the upstairs bedroom, which currently is just a second television off my 722 receiver. However, this got me thinking. While I dont need it now, what will happen when I go to upgrade the television in the bedroom? While it is a CRT now, I would definitely replace it with a HDTV, which means that I would need a receiver there.

After doing some searching through the various threads, I learned that RG-59 does not play well with HD SAT. So, now I need to get a cable to the basement for future use. Two questions come to mind, first, is CL2 in wall rated safe to run through the cold air return ducts like plenum rated cable would be? And second, would I be able to contact the installer that did my install to have him bring me 150ft of RG-6 already terminated, or is that just a dumb idea?

The fact of the matter is, there is no good way into the bedroom otherwise. I would hate trying to drill into the attic from the roof, because that is just asking for trouble I would think.

 

[digital echo]

The rg6 cable is out doors all yr, so no need to worry about the cold air return. Planning on making the ceiling drop ceiling right? Saves money in the long run..

 

[Andrewwski]

First, I'm going to get flamed for this, but without getting into any arguments, try the RG59 first. If it works, it works, if not, then it's time for plan B. "Burn out" is a myth. What does happen is that RG59 has higher signal attenuation per unit length, so for long runs it does not work well. Unfortunately, if the run is in fact 150 feet, that would be too long for RG59.

I believe CL2 is only rated for in-wall use outside of cold air returns. You can cross through a cold air return perpendicularly, as in run the cable through it. However, you cannot run the cable through it, for that, you need plenum rated.

I don't think it's the best idea to try and run already-terminated cable. You'll have to make your holes a lot bigger, and you risk ruining the connector while fishing it. It's much easier to just run the cable and then terminate it. You can get a cheap compression tool for $25 at Sears. It'd be considerably easier to just get the cable unterminated, and put your own ends on after you run it.

And you'll have another tool you can add to your collection...and if you like to tinker with this stuff, it'll be more than worth it.

 

[HCI]

Can you get into the attic another way say under the eve? Not a good idea to run non-plenum cable in air returns.

 

[smakovits]

Can you get into the attic another way say under the eve? Not a good idea to run non-plenum cable in air returns.

when you say under an eve, do you mean the section of the roof which forms an overhang? I cant get a picture, but if it is what I am thinking of, then yes I have them, and yes, I have access into the attic...

I just want to try and get us on the same page, to make sure we are talking about the same thing...the eve would have sections that have hole in them to vent from the attic correct?

Or am I thinking a ridge vent?

 

[TNGTony]

The problem with RG59 isn't that it works or doesn't... it's that it "sort of" works. I used RG59 and I thought it worked fine. But later I started having little problems I thought was with my switch or with my receiver. I couldn't nail it down. I tried all sorts of things but the problems didn't hang around long enough for me to figure out the cause. After about a year of these little bugs that were driving me nuts, I moved some of my stuff and just for yucks, replaced the RG59 length with RG6. Lo and behold, all those little bugs went away imediately!

Some may use RG59 successfully, but I did not have that result. (50 foot cable length)

See ya
Tony

 

[Claude Greiner]

Heres my feelings about using RG59...

If your going to start sealing in walls, crawl spaces and ceilings with drywall, you better make sure you replace everything with RG6 because it would be a shame to have to start cutting holes in your new drywall if you have an issue down the road.

If its easily accessable such as in a drop ceiling, then its your call and you can leave it there and replace it if you start having issues with your signal.

As far as running in cold air returns, if you go by the book your susposed to use plenum cable.

Plenum cable has some property that if its exposed to a flame it will not give off toxic smoke which can be harmfull to breath.

However if some how the cable does manage to catch on fire, chances are your house is on fire and there are things that are probably burning that are far more toxic than the plastic coating on coax cable.

My house caught on fire 3 years ago, and a fairly large amount of non-plenum cable ended up burning in my basement ceiling. The fire was not bad at all, but the smoke damage from all the other stuff that burned was so bad the toxic smoke from the cable that burned made very little difference!

You put Dish in a hospital, you got to use plenum cable because of the liability. But for your own home, Its your choice but personally I would use non-plenum cable.

 

[incstlouis]

RG59 covers only the lower freq. (CATV). RG6 will cover the lower freq. and also the L-Band - 900-1450. Most of the RG6 you'll find will also be sweep tested to 3 ghz.

You can buy it preterminated at www showmecables com

As far as plenum vs. non-plenum, no need for plenum cables in a residential enviornment. This really is for commercial applications when the PVC jacket of a low voltage cable would burn, sending the deadly smoke into the ventilation system. I suspect there is a whole lot more plastic in/around your house that would casue this situation first. I am also pretty sure that unless your house is a 5 story building, you could easily walk out if there were a fire.

 

[wassupTC]

If your basement is completely unfinished, why not just run that RG-6 to all of your rooms on your main level. I'm assuming, of course, that you live in a ranch and not a two story.

To run the cable:

1. Find the stud cavity you would like to place the cable in using a stud finder.
2. Mark the top edge of the baseboard with a pencil.
3. Pull away the baseboard from the wall.
4. Cut the drywall about a 1/2 inch from the pencil line that you drew earlier. This should expose the baseplate of your wall.
5. Verify that you don't have any plumbing, HVAC, gas, electrical, etc. below that portion of the floor in the basement.
6. Drill through the baseplate using a flexible bit of at least 1/2" diameter and opening up a hole into your basement through which to run your cable.
7. Measure the height of the electrical boxes in your rooms upstairs and cut a hole the size of an "Old Work" Electrical Box in your selected stud cavity.
8. Run your RG-6 cable through the Old Work Box and then through the floor into the basement to your main distribution point.
9. Use that handy-dandy compression tool to put on your new fittings and you're ready to rock 'n' roll. Make sure that you have figured out a way to make sure that the cable doesnt' fall down into the basement.
10. Put that cut piece of drywall back on with some drywall nails. Erase the pencil line. Put the baseboard back on.

I just finished my basement last year, so I'm a little overhelpful. If you already know all of this information, then I apologize for the repetition. If you live in a two-story home, this method will get to be a great deal trickier because you'll have to repeat the steps above for the floor below your second story and hopefully you will have located walls on two floors directly above one another. RG-6 is super cheap (10 cents/foot or less) at your local Menards if you have one, or possibly find some for cheap elsewhere.

Best of luck!

 

[Andrewwski]

50 feet is probably about the fringe for RG59...I can see it being sporadic at that range.

If you're running new cable, as Claude said, go with RG6. Don't run new RG59...that makes no sense.

RG59 can carry satellite frequencies in the 3000 MHz range, just not as far as RG6. And the difference in attenuation between the two cables rises exponentially as the frequency rises, thus long runs won't work well.

The issue may be if he has to fish from basement to 2nd story. To a 1st story is fine really easy, to a 2nd is harder. You'll have to remove the baseboard, and cut out a section. Do the same on the 2nd floor. Pull the cable through to the first floor. Then get a cable fish tape (like $10) and feed it from the access hole on the upper floor down to the access hole on the 1st floor. This will take patience. Attach the cable to the end and pull it through upstairs. Then cut out a box for the wallplate and feed it that extra foot or so. I'd advise using a low volt ring instead of an electrical box, but either will work.

 

[wassupTC]

Then cut out a box for the wallplate and feed it that extra foot or so. I'd advise using a low volt ring instead of an electrical box, but either will work.

Good catch, Andrewwski! Should have mentioned that...I've started to use those low voltage 'Old Work' frames as well...much easier to work with. There's no need to add any additional hassles to a potentially (if it's a two story house) real big hassle of a job.

 

[smakovits]

Yeah, I mean I guess I have two option to get to the room upstairs, through the attic via a ridge vent like thing. As long as I could hid the cable well, this is an option. Second would be to just go through the cold air return. Like many have said, I am sure there is plenty of other crap that will be burning and putting out smoke that I dont have to worry about a coaxial cable burning in my air return.

Now another question about RG-6 then. The RG-59 is from an old application, So I have nothing do do with that and hence now need to replace it, but as far as RG-6 does it or the ends on it make a difference? I have RG-6 in the basement that I want to re-use and run up to my living room. It has crimp on ends and is listed at 75 ohm or what not. Is there any good way to make sure that this cable is good, and will be good going forward intot eh future? I mean, if I can get all my HD channels and such without issue, does that mean I am safe, or should I be getting myself a brand new RG-6 for this install with the compression ends on it?

 

[wassupTC]

Yeah, I mean I guess I have two option to get to the room upstairs, through the attic via a ridge vent like thing. As long as I could hid the cable well, this is an option. Second would be to just go through the cold air return. Like many have said, I am sure there is plenty of other crap that will be burning and putting out smoke that I dont have to worry about a coaxial cable burning in my air return.

Now another question about RG-6 then. The RG-59 is from an old application, So I have nothing do do with that and hence now need to replace it, but as far as RG-6 does it or the ends on it make a difference? I have RG-6 in the basement that I want to re-use and run up to my living room. It has crimp on ends and is listed at 75 ohm or what not. Is there any good way to make sure that this cable is good, and will be good going forward intot eh future? I mean, if I can get all my HD channels and such without issue, does that mean I am safe, or should I be getting myself a brand new RG-6 for this install with the compression ends on it?

If it were me, I would buy brand new and not take the chance. You can use the old stuff to connect your TV(s) to the wall outlet(s). If the stuff goes bad, you can just throw it away, and you're only out the time and money to put connectors on it. If it's in the wall, then you're out the time and money for the connectors and the drywall patches; and hair that you just pulled out...just an opinion.