I need some advice on a fairly long run to a BUD i just picked up. I want to lay a ribbon cable suitable for 4dtv just in case i go to it later on. Currently i am using a Coolsat 6000 receiver on ku band. The BUD to be used is a 10 footer Channel Master with mesh screen, small holes, much smaller than a pencil. I will have to place this dish at 200ft in order to clear trees. For now, i plan on a motor positioner to power the actuator for my Coolsat 6000. It is my understanding that the twin coaxial cables in the ribbon are rg6. My question is will i have a problem with ku band with this long of a run. I guess my other option would be rg11, but would have to run additional wires for actuator. I am new to c band and need some help!
KU/C BAND CABLE RUN
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That's a long way but do-able. search the threads for "buried cable" Everyone here will advise you to use at least 1-1/4" plastic pipe, pull more wires than you need and add a pull string for the ones you forgot. RG11 is pretty fat, RG6 quad should work fine for your application if you don't have too many splices once it's inside the house. Sprinkler wire is really actuator wire in disguise.LOL
A 200 foot run should not be a problem! My ribbon cable is almost 300 feet and the signals come through fine on both C and Ku band. The only mistake I made was using 1 1/4" plastic conduit. For a few dollars more (very few - and mostly in the price of the fittings) I should of ran 1 1/2" conduit. The ribbon cable will pull a lot easier in the 1 1/2" plus there is more room for more extras. If you do use the 1 1/4" conduit you can get adaptors for 1 1/2" to use on the elbows to make the pull easier. The bends are the worst part to pull! I also looked at other things like PVC water line and hoses and such to use to protect the wire. The conduit which is the "proper" method was also the cheapest. I did end up throwing another 1" conduit full of wires in my moat before I covered it up - just in case...
Several years ago we had a whole pile of 2" plastic conduit that was salvaged from a tower. This would of been better yet plus it was free! Unfortunately we made "light sabers" out of them and smashed most of them up! The force was not with us!!!...
Several years ago we had a whole pile of 2" plastic conduit that was salvaged from a tower. This would of been better yet plus it was free! Unfortunately we made "light sabers" out of them and smashed most of them up! The force was not with us!!!...
I hate to sound stupid here, but i thought ribbbon cable could be directly buried without running through conduit!
Yes it can be buried directly with no problem! I got my ribbon cable real cheap 
and it is getting harder to come by. At my location my soil is loaded with gravel along with scattered rocks and metal do-dids from a barn that once stood here. Don't forget that there are a lot of wire chewing critters out there too! :devil::devil::devil: I thought that it is well worth the small investment to protect the ribbon cable from damage which can lead to a malfunction and a early retirement! :river
and it is getting harder to come by. At my location my soil is loaded with gravel along with scattered rocks and metal do-dids from a barn that once stood here. Don't forget that there are a lot of wire chewing critters out there too! :devil::devil::devil: I thought that it is well worth the small investment to protect the ribbon cable from damage which can lead to a malfunction and a early retirement! :river
I run about 250' with no problems. I have done it with conduit, and without conduit. If you use conduit, make sure it can drain, or it will fill up with water, and be be a slimy mess. My first try, I used elbows that took the pipe down then back up, and that was a mistake. The next time I did it without conduit, but didn't remove all the sharp rocks, and when I drove cars and tractors over it, I think it tended to crush the coax a bit, but it still worked OK. But I should have taken out the rocks and put regular soil/sand or something like that in the trench. I then put in conduit again, this time just straight through, into a hole, and it sloped downhill so water would drain out. I forget what size conduit it is, but I have 2 runs of ribbon cable, and about 3 runs of regular RG6. I started out with just 1 run of ribbon. THe nice thing about conduit is that you can add runs as your dish farm grows.
On your 250ft run, did your ribbon cable have 16 or 14 guage wire for the actuator? I have read that using 16 guage on long runs slows down the motor speed. Did you have any problem with that?
Buy your RG6 from ebay. Look for direct bury RG6 "QUAD". Quad is much better and thicker than normal RG6 but it will cost you about twenty bucks more for a thousand feet coil, but worth every penny. Be sure to buy some quad connections when you buy the wire.
I always direct bury, but when I do I bury two lines for every one connection, that way if you ever have a problem you have an extra wire. Water can get inside your conduit, the you really have a problem.
I use direct bury sprinkler 18 gage wire for every thing else. You get five or six wires in the cable and it is cheap.
I live in the country and have a '53 Ford tractor. I just hook the plow up and turn over about six to eight inches of soil drop my wires and push the soil back over the wire, only real digging I have to do is near the house and the pole. Lazy mans way of doing it but I hate work.
I always direct bury, but when I do I bury two lines for every one connection, that way if you ever have a problem you have an extra wire. Water can get inside your conduit, the you really have a problem.
I use direct bury sprinkler 18 gage wire for every thing else. You get five or six wires in the cable and it is cheap.
I live in the country and have a '53 Ford tractor. I just hook the plow up and turn over about six to eight inches of soil drop my wires and push the soil back over the wire, only real digging I have to do is near the house and the pole. Lazy mans way of doing it but I hate work.
I do have problems with the motor when it gets below zero in the winter, but I'm not using an actuator, I'm using an old Ajax H-H. When I first installed the dish, I didn't have a problem, but it slowly got worse. The H-H gets mouse nest stuff mixed in with the grease, and it was a mess, difficult to clean and grease. Originally I only had about 175' run, because I had my receiver 1/3 of the way to the dish, but I moved my receiver, which meant I needed another 75' of coax. Anyway, I didn't notice any big difference when I added the extra 75', but I'm not sure if my motor problems are due to the extra 75' or that the gears are just getting rougher. I don't think I would have these problems with an actuator, because my main problem is when I move the dish down to the horizon, it's hard to get it back. But an actuator has it's best mechanical advantage when low to the horizon. I may just switch back to an actuator, because trees are blocking my view over the atlantic anyway. I have an old actuator laying around somewhere. One year, I tried to install a counter-weight, but couldn't get the weight pulling the right way, so I connected a chain to a small nearby tree, and hung a weight to that chain, so that when the dish was at the horizon, the weight was lifted off the ground, and it actually bent the tree over like a spring. That actually worked, but looked pretty weird, so I took it down.
B.J.
You mention of the possibility of the conduit getting water in it. The soil where I am is very well drained and I did not consider water getting in the conduit. If the conduit is in a wet location, would gluing the joints help to prevent a water problem??? We have some conduit runs between some grain bins and the water runoff from the structures pours over the conduit in the ground. The joints are glued and last year I added something in one conduit and it sure looked dry inside. I did not glue the conduit runs to my BUD(s) because like I said it is very well drained at my home. I have a weatherhead up next to the BUD for the wires to come out. Do you think that condensation can form in the run or that there is enough air sneeking in through the weatherhead to keep things fairly dry???
You mention of the possibility of the conduit getting water in it. The soil where I am is very well drained and I did not consider water getting in the conduit. If the conduit is in a wet location, would gluing the joints help to prevent a water problem??? We have some conduit runs between some grain bins and the water runoff from the structures pours over the conduit in the ground. The joints are glued and last year I added something in one conduit and it sure looked dry inside. I did not glue the conduit runs to my BUD(s) because like I said it is very well drained at my home. I have a weatherhead up next to the BUD for the wires to come out. Do you think that condensation can form in the run or that there is enough air sneeking in through the weatherhead to keep things fairly dry???
I'm not sure whether it would be better to be sealed to keep humid air out (that might condense in the pipe), or to have it open to allow airflow to allow moisture to evaporate.
My opinion though is to make sure the conduit can drain at it's low point. The pipe I had trouble with was pretty straight and level under-ground, but at the dish, and where it entered the house, I had elbows that brought it up to ground level. The soil there was fairly dry most of the time, but I think water followed the wires down into the pipe at the dish, and possibly also at the house, even though I think I had a rock covering the pipe at the house. But when I upgraded my dish, I went to replace the coax, and the whole pipe was pretty much full of water, and the ribbon cable was all slimy. The cable was supposed to be direct burial stuff, and normally you wouldn't worry about water getting through the waterproof insulation, but I don't think that necessarily applies to being under water 100% of the time, never getting a chance to dry out. That cable I pulled out felt slimy and looked degraded even after it was dried out.
My current conduit, at a different house, has a significant slope, and ends in a hole by my garage, that drains pretty well, except in winter, so it stays pretty dry. If it were level, I think I would have put in that pipe with holes in it, so that the water could drain out. But basically, if you can remove sharp rocks, I think the only reason for conduit is to make it easier to add new wires without digging again. But if you did what the other poster did, and put in additional wires for future use, that maybe it might be better to just bury the cable without conduit. I'm glad I put conduit in though, because I've added wires on about 3 occasions, plus I didn't remove all the sharp rocks, and I drive tractors and other vehicles over the wires all the time, and the conduit protects them from physical damage.
My opinion though is to make sure the conduit can drain at it's low point. The pipe I had trouble with was pretty straight and level under-ground, but at the dish, and where it entered the house, I had elbows that brought it up to ground level. The soil there was fairly dry most of the time, but I think water followed the wires down into the pipe at the dish, and possibly also at the house, even though I think I had a rock covering the pipe at the house. But when I upgraded my dish, I went to replace the coax, and the whole pipe was pretty much full of water, and the ribbon cable was all slimy. The cable was supposed to be direct burial stuff, and normally you wouldn't worry about water getting through the waterproof insulation, but I don't think that necessarily applies to being under water 100% of the time, never getting a chance to dry out. That cable I pulled out felt slimy and looked degraded even after it was dried out.
My current conduit, at a different house, has a significant slope, and ends in a hole by my garage, that drains pretty well, except in winter, so it stays pretty dry. If it were level, I think I would have put in that pipe with holes in it, so that the water could drain out. But basically, if you can remove sharp rocks, I think the only reason for conduit is to make it easier to add new wires without digging again. But if you did what the other poster did, and put in additional wires for future use, that maybe it might be better to just bury the cable without conduit. I'm glad I put conduit in though, because I've added wires on about 3 occasions, plus I didn't remove all the sharp rocks, and I drive tractors and other vehicles over the wires all the time, and the conduit protects them from physical damage.
I live in a pretty wet area, never had trouble with water in the pipes. Not much to keeping it out, Duct-seal, foam or a terminal box all work. Even if you do get some water, way better to handle wet cable than to dig up the whole run again.
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