Lithium Ion Batteries

[Frank Jr.]

A good read for all of us to learn something about these type of batteries can be found by clicking on the following link. Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries
In this article it suggests that charging a Li-ion battery while in use is not a good idea. Unfortunately, something I have done many times. I am not concerned about my laptop or cell phones as those batteries can be easily replaced. When the battery in my iPad goes south I will have to ship it out for a replacement.

I do not claim to have a good understanding of Lithium Ion batteries. My knowledge is very limited as my prior post in Rocky's thread about the "PlugBug" may reflect. Not wanting to take Rocky's fine thread into a different direction I decided to start this one. Also D.L. thanks for taking the time to share your comments about the charging properties of LI batteries.

 

[mike123abc]

Most devices like the iphone and ipad are very smart when charging their batteries. I would not worry about using them when plugged in. They have a controller chip in charge of the battery to maximize the life.

 

[TheForce]

In this article it suggests that charging a Li-ion battery while in use is not a good idea. Unfortunately, something I have done many times.

I think this has to do with how the charging system is designed and not to assume a generality. When a power cable is connected, that supply may be split and power the device as well as charge the isolating Li Ion battery. Example- how much damage did I do to my Dell laptop battery that has been plugged in and on 24/7 then taken on a trip and used under battery power alone and still get excellent burn time after several years? The battery still gives me good life. Cell phone is off, when my wife's LG phone is plugged in to the charger the phone comes on and stays on, just the opposite of what you would expect based on the warning in the article. Yet the battery is lasting fine for over a year. The warning may be unfounded in most cases and adhering to the article suggested practice may not even be possible or at best just wasting your time, preventing you from using your device while it is plugged into the charger. My opinion, Li Ion battery life is not based on how you charge with your mfg designed charger, it is based on the number of charge- discharge cycles with LiIon being the best of breed in rechargeable technology today. It's not uncommon to get 1000 or more charge cycles on LiIon. If you use aftermarket charging supplies, not possible with laptops and cell phones when charging battery in the phone you may be at risk of battery damage. The phone or laptop has it's charging circuitry in the device. If you pull the battery from the phone and stick it in an aftermarket universal charger you are at risk. Leaving the battery in the phone and connecting a power cord to the phone is OK and do not worry about using while charging. Same with ipad, although the ipad is best used as a portable device and with excellent battery life it makes sense to just use the ipad with the charger power pack disconnected. The most common device that would suffer the article warning is the laptop since it might be used as a plugged in desktop often, yet practice demonstrates that this does not cause harm or shorten the life of the battery.

 

[diogen]

I don't think there is another hardware component in the modern gadgetry world
with a bigger gap between theory and practice, than batteries.

Hence, most of the theoretical conclusions should be taken with a big grain of salt...

Diogen.

 

[TheForce]

I don't think there is another hardware component in the modern gadgetry world
with a bigger gap between theory and practice, than batteries.

Hence, most of the theoretical conclusions should be taken with a big grain of salt...

Diogen.

You got that right! Back when I was designing battery systems for high powered underwater cinema lights, I befriended a diving buddy who was director of R&D for GE NiCad Plant. When he learned of my interest in building battery packs and the chargers for same, he would spend hours and hours teaching me the ins and outs of what makes them work and what makes them work really well and what makes then ruin your battery. He was also a chemical engineer, but with a PHD in electrochemistry. He did save me a ton of money when I redesigned my chargers based on his direction and stopped ruining those expensive F-Cell Nicads. From then on I developed a whole new way of understanding how the charging works for different battery systems.

 

[Frank Jr.]

Well, time will tell. When our iPad batteries do go south it will be a pain to have them replaced. I got mine last Christmas and it is still holding a good charge. How long are they expected to last under heavy use?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Well, time will tell. When our iPad batteries do go south it will be a pain to have them replaced. I got mine last Christmas and it is still holding a good charge. How long are they expected to last under heavy use?

My gut says by the time the battery fails, you will be wanting a new iPad 3 or 4.

That said, I have Apple Care on my iPad, so I am covered for up to 2 years if it fails. It will just mean a trip to the Apple Store.

 

[TheForce]

Well, time will tell. When our iPad batteries do go south it will be a pain to have them replaced. I got mine last Christmas and it is still holding a good charge. How long are they expected to last under heavy use?

I think Apple is well designed so I'd bet if you fully used your ipad every day and charged over night, you'd get 2.5 to 3 years. I stick mine on the charger once a week when it hits 20% or less.

 

[Frank Jr.]

Old Frankie wasn't so dumb after all. lol. As Rocky indicated in the iPad owners thread there is an update concerning battery life. I wonder what prompted this update?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Old Frankie wasn't so dumb after all. lol. As Rocky indicated in the iPad owners thread there is an update concerning battery life. I wonder what prompted this update?

I have not been aware of battery issues with ios5 on the iPad; the complaints have been on the iPhone

Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

 

[Frank Jr.]

I have not been aware of battery issues with ios5 on the iPad; the complaints have been on the iPhone

Sent from my iPad using SatelliteGuys

The 5.0.1 OTA update to 5.0 is out for iPad as well, and it does a few things beyond battery issues on the iPhone. On the iPad is permits multi-touch gestures on the original iPad 1. Pretty small update - about 39MB. Took about 5 minutes to install.

Source: http://www.satelliteguys.us/compute...-apple-ipad-owners-thread-44.html#post2693418

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Source: http://www.satelliteguys.us/compute...-apple-ipad-owners-thread-44.html#post2693418

Frank, my point was that even though they claim it is to resolve battery issues, I had NOT HEARD of any battery complaints on the iPad with iOS 5.0, nor had I experienced any. I know I explained in the posts what the stated reason from Apple in the release notes was for it, but I just have not heard any complaints from any of the usual suspects about iOS 5 draining the iPad.

 

[Frank Jr.]

Frank, my point was that even though they claim it is to resolve battery issues, I had NOT HEARD of any battery complaints on the iPad with iOS 5.0, nor had I experienced any. I know I explained in the posts what the stated reason from Apple in the release notes was for it, but I just have not heard any complaints from any of the usual suspects about iOS 5 draining the iPad.

I hear you. No argument. Glad you have the extended warranty YOU PAID FOR?

 

[berck]

Most devices like the iphone and ipad are very smart when charging their batteries. I would not worry about using them when plugged in. They have a controller chip in charge of the battery to maximize the life.

I agree as long as the usage is not continued when the batteries get fully charged. Li-Ion batteries like two states. Discharging or charging. They worst is to put them in a state that they are doing neither (Leaving them plugged into the wall once they reach full charge).

 

[mperdue]

I agree as long as the usage is not continued when the batteries get fully charged. Li-Ion batteries like two states. Discharging or charging. They worst is to put them in a state that they are doing neither (Leaving them plugged into the wall once they reach full charge).

There is no reason to be concerned as a properly designed charge circuit on a Li-Ion battery cuts off the charge when the battery reaches a preset voltage level. The device then runs entirely off the line power without charging the battery further. For all intents and purposes the battery acts as if the device is powered off.

 

[berck]

There is no reason to be concerned as a properly designed charge circuit on a Li-Ion battery cuts off the charge when the battery reaches a preset voltage level. The device then runs entirely off the line power without charging the battery further. For all intents and purposes the battery acts as if the device is powered off.

That's not what my friend tells me who works on Li-Ion battery charging circuits. By leaving them on the charger, they are neither charging or discharging. They like the range of power from 30-70%. That is their ideal power location, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the same range you have with the battery indicator.
I've done both ways with leaving plugged in or not, the worst thing I was doing with them is when I left them plugged in. You aren't allowing the let the battery discharge. Once I got in a habit of allowing the battery to discharge, the battery life increase by about six months.

 

[jayn_j]

I have seen a wide variety of designs for Li batteries. You are both right in that I have seen both styles. When I was running the business, we chose the more complex design that switched the battery out of the circuit after charging was complete. Our battery was only good for about 6 hours given our current draw, so we were marketing it as a backup system with primary power coming from line current. Component was a wireless sensor module using bluetooth.

Still, even the "smart" chargers have issues in that if power is off for a few minutes, they will charge a nearly full charged battery. It would be better to have more hysteresis in the circuit where it wouldn't charge if the battery was more than say 70%.