LNBF is supposed to be where?

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Houston

Houston

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
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Houston, Tx USA
I purchased a “kit” (3/13/2006) from the Satellite Shop, (Traxis DBS1500 System, which included. a DMS Intl. Spitfire Mod ASC321 LNB 0.5db, and a Hotdish75).
When I set the Dish up, I thought to do some measurements to confirm the Specs given by the Mfg, and have run into some problems (I think) with the Focal Length of the LNB as advertised (Mfg info in the box area), and measured by me personally (the other measurements).

Have attached a drawing of my findings, and ask that you please comment on the Focal Length differences. (Houston1.jpg)

I think this may (in part) be why the system isn’t displaying ANY channel picture from ANY satellite. Could it be that the LNB just isn’t in the right place. Plus, what do I do about it, other than the minor (2cm) slip in/out, that I can do with the LNB holder?

From what I see on the Mfg specs, they want the LNB to be at 468mm (46.8cm), and as you can see, I measured it at 55 to 57cm. That is IF one uses the direct center of the Dish, to measure from?

And as you have read in my Posts, I’m getting a Signal Strength of about 50%, with 0% Quality, regardless of where I point the Dish. Plus it may be helpful if you were to read my Journal, I’ve tried to explain the problem as best I can there.
(Please excuse my “venting” about how the Vendor has treated me)

Any advice you could provide would greatly be appreciated.
 

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iammike

iammike

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Dec 29, 2003
953
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Roanoke,VA
I read your blog and your post. I'm not familiar with your mount, but if it can only go to 45 degrees elevation then "Houston you have a problem". :D Sorry couldn't resist. Are you sure you can't go more than 45? Actually just to test out your equipment, I'd try pointing it at G10R. According to Sadoun's calculator, it should be at 44.3 degrees elevation for you. It's about the only bird with KU programming that would be viewable with your mount. When you add a motor, you should be able to get the full arc as the elevation angle of the motor is added to that of your dish. I don't remember specifically, it's been a couple years since I set it up, but it seems like I've got my motor somewhere around 22 degrees and my dish at somewhere around 25 or 26. My true south is at an elevation somewhere in the mid 40's. I wouldn't worry too much with the focal length of your dish right now. I suspect that the distance it's at by default is probably pretty close. The instructions these things come with are a little iffy in my opinion. One thing you do need to do is keep that mast good and plumb. You may get lucky and lock on one bird with it tilted, but you'll never be able to track the arc.

I suspect you have some set up issues on your receiver too, but I'm not familiar with the Traxis receiver. I'm sure someone else will chime in with some help.

As for the Satellite Shop, I'm not defending their actions in your case, but they've dealt pretty well with me in the past. You might try calling them. Joe is the guy I spoke with and he seemed pretty decent.
 
global0

global0

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 31, 2006
171
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37N, 121W
Houston said:
I purchased a “kit” (3/13/2006) from the Satellite Shop, (Traxis DBS1500 System, which included. a DMS Intl. Spitfire Mod ASC321 LNB 0.5db, and a Hotdish75).
When I set the Dish up, I thought to do some measurements to confirm the Specs given by the Mfg, and have run into some problems (I think) with the Focal Length of the LNB as advertised (Mfg info in the box area), and measured by me personally (the other measurements).

Have attached a drawing of my findings, and ask that you please comment on the Focal Length differences. (Houston1.jpg)

I think this may (in part) be why the system isn’t displaying ANY channel picture from ANY satellite. Could it be that the LNB just isn’t in the right place. Plus, what do I do about it, other than the minor (2cm) slip in/out, that I can do with the LNB holder?

From what I see on the Mfg specs, they want the LNB to be at 468mm (46.8cm), and as you can see, I measured it at 55 to 57cm. That is IF one uses the direct center of the Dish, to measure from?

And as you have read in my Posts, I’m getting a Signal Strength of about 50%, with 0% Quality, regardless of where I point the Dish. Plus it may be helpful if you were to read my Journal, I’ve tried to explain the problem as best I can there.
(Please excuse my “venting” about how the Vendor has treated me)

Any advice you could provide would greatly be appreciated.

What you have is an offset dish and the "LNB distance" for these dishes is not measured from the center of the dish. Here is a link to some detailed and pretty technical info about the subject: http://www.vhfcomm.co.uk/otypka.htm

Finally, with an offset dish, where you think it is pointing to is normally below the actual point.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
378
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Mankato, MN
Houston

I use a HotDish for one of my setups and the LNB stays all the way back in the holder. You can adjust it for fine tuning but skew is much more critical depending on where you are in the US and where the satellite is.

Houston is at 95.4W so what I would do to make sure its working is aim at your true south satellite, which is G3

Elevation is 55
Azimuth is 175 9just off true south)
Skew is 0

There is a VERY strong transponder there.
11780 freq
H polarity
20760 symbol rate.

Those are the Chinese channels

I read your blog and here are some thoughts
-my Hotdish goes all the way up to 70…so I don’t know why yours only goes to 45.
-the Spitfire is a STANDARD LNB
-Enter it in the Traxis as “NORMAL KU” with a LO frequency of 10750. If there are 2 numbers to fill in, fill them both as 10750
-Make sure its hooked to the satellite input
-When you aim, make sure you are set up on the transponder I posted above or it won’t work

Good luck : )
 
PSB

PSB

On vacation
Nov 5, 2003
1
5
Remember if you feel you are close to a satellite you can try a Blind Scan, that has saved MANY members here from "Throwing the whole lot in the river"

Also when you do manage to get signal quality, if its low, then (from behind dish) try pulling on both sides of the dish as you watch the signal quality meter. Some dish (Of all makes) arrive slightly warped because of the way they have been stored or shipped!

As Iceberg mentioned the dish should go a lot higher in elevation, maybe you have this bracket on upside down?

GOOD LUCK!
 
M

Mr Tony

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Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
378
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Mankato, MN
iafirebuff said:
My Fortec 31" dish is set to almost 45 elevation where the charts show 32.

That doesnt sound right....the red edge is at 45?

My 90cm Fortec is at 29 and it should be about 30ish
 
iafirebuff

iafirebuff

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 10, 2006
4,392
8
Waterloo, Iowa
The red edge is actually at about 42 ish. That is where I had to get it to get the strongest signal for G10. I had it at about 35-37 for the first sat I accidentally hit, and G10 came in at that elevation, but when I was tweaking it, this is where I got the strongest signal. I knew there was a possibility it would be off, but that seemed excessive. Now my Dish 500 has marks and a scale for every degree, and it is mounted a few feet away from my FTA and it is right at where the setup guide says it should be.
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
378
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Mankato, MN
some 80cm dishes had the elevation off but that seems like a lot
 
briansanders007

briansanders007

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Nov 24, 2003
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Mine was about 10 or off too. That's what really got me when installing the dish! once I figured that out. found it right away.
 
Houston

Houston

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
WOW, what a response. Thank ALL of you:

iammike,
YES, Houston DOES have a problem, as a matter of fact, SEVERAL !
Am “attaching” a couple drawings (4 & 4a) where you can see the Az/Ele mechanism of the Hotdish75. I promise I DO have it assembled correctly, and in the only way it can be.
I STAND CORRECTED, in re-checking the maximum Elevation (with the Post plumb) the Dish can be elevated just over 51°. However, I want to add a Motor to the system, and my Latitude is at 29.6°N. Given that you say that a Motor will give me (some) Elevation on it’s own, between the two, I think I’ll be able to get to the highest Ele, which is IA-5 @ 55.4° for me.
But, consider this:
When viewing diagram 4A, please note the Elevation Pivot Bolt’s location (“A”), which is directly through the Post Clamp. From what pictures I’ve seen of Motors, it is necessary that this clamp, slip UP onto the Motor Shaft (example PSB’s Avatar).
Now, if you know of some other way/Motor, which doesn’t require the “slip up on” assembly, please let me know. Either I’ll buy it, or throw this piece of jun…equipment away, and start over!
It appears, that the Hotdish75 is designed for stationary use, and must be used with a Post/Pedestal Mount only. Given how closely I scrutinized the information from the Sat Shop before purchase, there was NO indication that what I was buying, wasn’t able to be expanded. NO comment that the Dish was limited to a Post mount. (Sat Shop strike 3)
I do have some problems with the Setup of the Receiver, and have received some help so far (thanks to several of the guys) but still haven’t got things working as of yet, BUT I’m NOT giving up!!!
As far as my problems with The Satellite Shop, I think it would be best if I commented about that in private communications.

global0,
I saved a copy of the web page today, and given my limited time on the Internet, I’ll have to read it later. Thanks for the link.

Iceberg,
I’ll slip the LNB back as far as it will go, thanks, but given my Longitude of 95.5°W I think that I’m right between IA-5 and G-3 (or that’s what the Sat Finders say). The setup info was VERY much appreciated, I think that most of my problems in not being able to get things running, IS in the setup, thanks again!

PSB,
The manual that came with the Traxis DBS1500 is SO vague, I’m not sure that I know where to find out how to do a Blind Scan, if the receiver even will. Remember I told you it had been translated from Klingon, and their grammar is beyond my capability. I’m just joking of course, but I just don’t understand why they don’t have somebody that actually speaks English, do the technical writing! For a Nubee like me, I need a LOT of help like that (clear instructions), and it falls WAY short.
Maybe a better word for the shape of my Dish might be “BestWayolic”, rather than Parabolic. I can’t see any damage to it, but, when I get things going, I will try flexing it a bit, and see if it pulls the Strength/Quality up any. I’m certain that I have the Dish assembled correctly, there’s no way to turn the bracket over, but, just in case, I did check it again!

iafirebuff,
Thanks for the tip, and I have seen several degrees difference, between SatFinder programs concerning Elevations and Azimuth. Same goes for where they think the Sats are in GSO, so I will pay close attention to the Sat Meter and “Bars”, when I finally get ANY Sat TP to show up on the TV. Am using a inline Sat Meter, and a little BW TV out at the Dish to watch the strength/quality bars.
And, I visited your website, http://www.iowafire.net/, nice, we all should remember how much Firefighters give to us.

Thank ALL of you for your must informative comments, and keep them coming, I’m still not out of the woods yet! :)
 

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M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
378
109
Mankato, MN
Iceberg,
I’ll slip the LNB back as far as it will go, thanks, but given my Longitude of 95.5°W I think that I’m right between IA-5 and G-3 (or that’s what the Sat Finders say). The setup info was VERY much appreciated, I think that most of my problems in not being able to get things running, IS in the setup, thanks again
G3 is at 95.0W and IA5 is at 97.0 so you're closer to G3 (1/2 a degree) versus IA5 (1 1/2 degrees) :)

I checked my Hotdish last night and the elevationm on mine goes up to 70. I'll take a picture tonight
 
hwh

hwh

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May 7, 2006
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Lake Mead
Houston said:
When viewing diagram 4A, please note the Elevation Pivot Bolt’s location (“A”), which is directly through the Post Clamp. From what pictures I’ve seen of Motors, it is necessary that this clamp, slip UP onto the Motor Shaft (example PSB’s Avatar).

At least some of the motors have holes in the shaft for that bolt to go thru. See http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/STAB/HH90.h8.jpg . That shouldn't be a problem, take the bolt out, slip it over the motor shaft, and put it back. :)
 
Houston

Houston

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
global0,
Uooowow, I “tried” to read the info you linked. But it zoomed over my head like a Jet! I really appreciate the reference though. I will re-visit the link today, it referred to some “figures” which didn’t display when I looked at it the first time. I REALLY like pictures, but Algebra, ummm.

hwh,
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out !

iamike,
Tried to send msg to your box, but it is full, gvie me some room there ! :)
 
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iammike

iammike

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Dec 29, 2003
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Roanoke,VA
Houston said:
iamike,
Tried to send msg to your box, but it is full, gvie me some room there ! :)


Oops! Come to think of it the PM's have been a little less frequent lately. I think the message limit for us freeloaders got cut back from 50 to 25. I deleted a bunch, give it a shot now.

Mike
 
Houston

Houston

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
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Houston, Tx USA
Iceberg,
I have a copy of a .htm for G-3c from Tracksat, and it says that it is at 76.5°, this MUST be a different Sat from G-3/95.4° you referred to, right ?

I used a download of the GlobeCast Calculator, and came up with the following numbers for the 95.4° location:

Az: 175.7°, Ele: 55.4°, Sku: -0.2°, which conforms very closely to the numbers you Posted, given that I’m using a -4° Mag Dec., which you may not have known. WOW, I finally did something right! I really like it when I can confirm stuff like that, means I’m headed in the right direction anyway, with the 0.1° or so differences not being very consequential, in the math anyway.

I feel JIPPED !, no doubt your HotDish is the Deluxe version, I guess paying a few bucks more for mine would have been worth it, just to get rid of the Myopia. ;-)

But I do have another question along this line:
I have used several Sat Finder Calculators, and most give me a fairly standard Az/Ele/Sku for a certain satellite, and, I know to subtract (given my Longitude of 95.5W) for Magnetic Declination. But, is there any correction for Elevation needed, or are the Magnetic Fields flat, and do not effect Elevation ?

Houston
 
M

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
378
109
Mankato, MN
Houston said:
Iceberg,
I have a copy of a .htm for G-3c from Tracksat, and it says that it is at 76.5°, this MUST be a different Sat from G-3/95.4° you referred to, right ?
that is way wrong. Even if you're at the mexican border, elevation is less than 60

I used a download of the GlobeCast Calculator, and came up with the following numbers for the 95.4° location:

Az: 175.7°, Ele: 55.4°, Sku: -0.2°, which conforms very closely to the numbers you Posted, given that I’m using a -4° Mag Dec., which you may not have known. WOW, I finally did something right! I really like it when I can confirm stuff like that, means I’m headed in the right direction anyway, with the 0.1° or so differences not being very consequential, in the math anyway.
that sounds about right. My numbers are really close and I'm just using Houston proper

I feel JIPPED !, no doubt your HotDish is the Deluxe version, I guess paying a few bucks more for mine would have been worth it, just to get rid of the Myopia. ;-)
I still don't get why your dish doesn't go any higher. See the pictures below. This is the Hotdish I'm using for SBS6 and it goes up to 70 elevation. Its at about 32ish or so (I dont have it 100% hooked up yet) :D

But I do have another question along this line:
I have used several Sat Finder Calculators, and most give me a fairly standard Az/Ele/Sku for a certain satellite, and, I know to subtract (given my Longitude of 95.5W) for Magnetic Declination. But, is there any correction for Elevation needed, or are the Magnetic Fields flat, and do not effect Elevation ?

Houston
not that I'm aware of. Elevation is usually correct but the dish may be off. I have a Fortec dish that does that. Should be at 30.X and its at about 29ish
 

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iammike

iammike

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 29, 2003
953
0
Roanoke,VA
Houston said:
Iceberg,
I have a copy of a .htm for G-3c from Tracksat, and it says that it is at 76.5°, this MUST be a different Sat from G-3/95.4° you referred to, right ?

I think this is the tracksat page you want to be looking at.

http://www.tracksat.com/My Webs/N&S American.htm

It's showing 95.5 for G3C. According to Sadoun's calculator you numbers are pretty close. It's showing 55.5 El, 178.1 AZ, and -.9 degrees skew for your longitude and latitude.

Mike
 
Houston

Houston

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 28, 2006
113
0
Houston, Tx USA
Iceberg,
I found the url to the Tracksat G-3C if you don’t mind, please check it out, and comment on the reason why it’s different than Lyngsat, thanks.
http://www.tracksat.com/My Webs/Galaxy3C.htm

hwh,
Got that pic from Sadoun, NICE, clear, but:

Wow, that Motor really looks small !, given the bad storms in my area, is something that little strong enough, to take some strong wind, with a 75mm dish on it?

NOW I see how it mounts, simple, but my notion is that it’s important to position the Dish on the Motor Shaft correctly, if I didn’t, then wouldn’t the “arc” be off at the ends of travel?

What if I need to move my dish lower, do any/all the Motor Mfgrs. have longer Shafts?

And, it looks like the Motor to Post/Pipe, can’t be much over about 2”, surely they’ll tell you how much pipe it will clamp up to, before I buy one! Have some experience in buying the wrong thing. L

But I can see the advantage of slipping that bolt through the Motor Shaft, probably would keep it right where you put it! But are those shafts pre-drilled, or would that be my job?

I had thought to use standard Schedule 40 Iron Pipe for the Motor Post, the biggest that the Motor will mount on. The winds around here have been getting up to about 50+MPH, those Hurricanes are getting stronger and more frequent.

I have read some blurbs from the Vendors on Motors, and I’m thinking that the bigger the better. Sadoun or someone has a large heavy duty Motor, I think I was a HH120?, if I remember that right. I think I’d opt out for one of those, given it said something about the “Wind Rating” being pretty high. But I’d consider anything else with even a higher rating, I’d really like to keep that thing in my back yard, not someone else’s.

I admit I bought my system on a “shoe string”, but, using solid equipment IS a good investment, and I don’t mind spending a little more, on something I trust will last. I had thought at some point, to get a larger dish (1.2M) or larger, I understand that Fortec makes them up to 240CM. I’m not sure that it would be necessary, but what do I know, I think that BUDs are pretty!
[would that then be BPDs or PUDs ;-) ].

I’m still getting used to navigating this web site, and I think I saw some link to “Equipment Reviews”, I’ll try to find that, given the inference, or possibly there’s a Thread on that topic? I remember Iceberg posting that he had trouble with one brand, I’ll see if I can find his comment again. Want to know what’s best (Stab-Fortec-whoever), where I can make an informed decision. And like I said, given the Weather conditions, the bigger, the stronger, the better.

I apologize for my sinicism, but I’ve had some bad experiences with Manufactures NOT telling what can or can not be done, and am very suspicious about that. Seems like the only straight forward answers and information I’ve received recently, is right here on this website. You just don’t know how much I appreciate the time and experience of you guys that have been at this a while, sharing that. I could start listing names of the ones that have helped, but, this Post is getting too long as it is, I’m kinda gabby anyway.

Again, THANK YOU, and ALL,
Houston
 
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