Local Channels

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MLBurks

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2004
491
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Huntingdon TN
I am a new subscriber to D*. I was with E* for over two years. I live near Jackson TN and I don't get squat for locals. With DISH I was able to get FOX, NBC and CBS from Chicago and they were available as well as from LA and NY and (I think) Atlanta. With D* I can only get LA or NY. No Chicago. I'm really interested in FOX out of Chicago because the Cubs play on FOX on Saturdays. But with D* I can not get Chicago. So I asked for FOX out of LA (so I can see 24) and they said I have to go through waivers. Waivers? With DISH I could go to their website and click that I want FOX Chicago or LA and BOOM! Instantly I have it. No waivers. I only had to go through waivers for ABC becuase the only local channel I have in Jackson is an ABC. So why does D* have to go through waivers for east and west coast feeds while DISH does not? Also, why does D* not offer networks from other major markets? I would think that the FCC rules and regulations would be indentical for both satellite providers:confused:
 
charper1

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
Here are the results I got for Jackson, TN and the link where you can test some zip codes. DBS companies are supposed to provide or deny based on the same zip code DB they are provided (they only enforce/not make the rules). Sometimes one is a bit slow to update their DB and it can be hard to determine who. Also what choice of DNS one has over another I would assume is based on the best bang for the buck the company can get; polls I have seen a while back showed the NYC and LA channels were widely asked for; I assume they are mostly O&O as well making it easier too.

http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx
 

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MLBurks

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2004
491
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Huntingdon TN
I went to that website and put in my zip code and I was "eligible" for all networks except ABC which is "Grade A (strong signal)". That's funny considering when I hook up some rabbit ears, I feel like I'm watching TV through a blizzard:rolleyes: . At lest I'm eligible for the others. Hopefully I'll hear back on the waivers soon. They say it could take 45 days! Still wish they offered Chicago. Thanks for the info:)
 
charper1

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
Which side of Jackson are you on; Notrh/North East? What is your zip? I see those networks are from Memphis.I see you said "NEAR" Jackson; and I feel somewhat compelled to mention as I have to others, distance and common sense bears no factor in how the FCC/NAB/affiliates claim you. I have seen numerous cases where a zip area that is closer to a metro area is not offered, yet ones that are farther away are offered.
 
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MLBurks

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2004
491
0
Huntingdon TN
I'm on the northeastern side of Jackson. In fact I am about at the half way point between Memphis and Nashville. My zip is 38344. If I had cable, I would have one local out of Jackson, all four networks out of Memphis, three out of Nashville and three out of Paducah KY. What gets me is Memphis and Nashville (not sure about Paducah) receive their locals with D*. So they are uplinked to the sats. Why then if cable would serve me these locals, satellite can not? Either I'm a bit slow in the head or this just doesn't make much sense to me:(
 
charper1

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
MLBurks said:
So they are uplinked to the sats. Why then if cable would serve me these locals, satellite can not? Either I'm a bit slow in the head or this just doesn't make much sense to me:(

Sir you have just stumbled into the fight of the century! LOL!

Cable and the NAB have fought, and continue to fight, to keep satellite from being able to retransmit network affiliate signals. It is their holy grail for the most part. Slowly but surely satellite is being allowed by law to "catch up" and operate on the same playing field. Thanks to user's pressure on their reps and the FCC.

Yes, Paducah is in a combined DMA (Paducah, KY-Cape Girardeau, MO-Marion, IL) and they are on satellite.
 
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MLBurks

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2004
491
0
Huntingdon TN
So this brings me back to my original question. If my "locals" are uplinked to the satellite and D* does carry them, why can't I get them:what FOX Chicago is uplinked to the satellite just as NYC and LA are. Why can't I get Chicago FOX? As much as I want my locals, I will never go back to cable. And even though I was allowed to get Chicago FOX with E* and any other network I wanted, I won't go back to DISH. For many reasons, despite this thread, I am happy with D*. I'm just the kind that asks "Why" and then wants to know the answer. Even if I don't like the answer, I usually feel better knowing the answer instead of being left wondering.:)
 
charper1

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
Because as of today (and for a LONG time); only the NYC and LA big 4 are slated as the DNS for customers that qualify. I too agree that an additional CT set would be more relevant for those users without LIL in the central US.
 
shadyB

shadyB

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 18, 2005
64
0
You could have been grandfathered in with your DNS service with Dish Network, if you had it more than 2 years. The FCC changed the law about a year and a half ago, making it harder for people to get DNS service. Sinced you changed service providers you have to qualify under the new rules, as opposed to the old rules that you were grandfathered under.
 
boba

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
You are also getting into Conus and Spotbeams. On Directv the only DNS on Conus beams is NY and LA. Chicago is on a spot beam and even if you could subscribe to it dosen't have a signal that you would be able to see.
 
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Greg Bimson

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 21, 2004
1,863
0
So I'll try to clear up some misconceptions, here...

shadyB is mostly correct. The rules were changed in December, 2004, by Congress and the President. However, since the Jackson, TN market is not uplinked by DirecTV and Dish Network, they can provide any distant locals for which you qualify. As was noted by charper1, the DirecTV website for distant qualification pointed out that Huntington, TN, is eligible for all networks except ABC, as the station is the only true full-power network station in Jackson.
MLBurks said:
So why does D* have to go through waivers for east and west coast feeds while DISH does not? Also, why does D* not offer networks from other major markets? I would think that the FCC rules and regulations would be indentical for both satellite providers.
Technically, the rules are the same. However, there is a small difference in the way they've been implemented.

DirecTV originally used network feeds from a company called PrimeTime 24. When the networks sued DirecTV and won in 1999, DirecTV then replaced this with the New York affiliates and the Los Angeles affiliates. DirecTV never wanted to add more than two sets of network channels. Each of these channels takes away from valuable bandwidth at the core satellite location.

Dish Network actually used 13 different markets for distant networks back in 1999. The networks also sued Dish Network, but the case dragged out for a much longer period of time. Dish Network started narrowing down the list. As of right now, they only offer distant locals from four cities.

And the ability to offer a specific set of stations nationwide is the choice of the satellite companies.
MLBurks said:
So this brings me back to my original question. If my "locals" are uplinked to the satellite and D* does carry them, why can't I get them FOX Chicago is uplinked to the satellite just as NYC and LA are. Why can't I get Chicago FOX?
The NY and LA channels may be uplinked to satellite the same as FOX Chicago, but they are not downlinked in the same manner.

In order to push more and more local channels to customers, a brilliant idea was born to create more bandwith. For example the ESPN and the NY FOX channel are on a transmission beam that covers the entire, contiguous United States (or what is known as CONUS). However, the Chicago local channels are retransmitted via a beam that only covers a few hundred miles in diameter. These are called spot-beams.

So you can understand this easily, it works the same way as any broadcast channel. There is a channel 2 in Boston, New York, Baltimore, Greensboro, Atlanta, Orlando, and Miami. The propogation of the TV signals is based upon a certain distance. Once the distance is met, the same channel and frequency can be used again in another part of the country.

The frequency DirecTV uses to transmit the Chicago channels also transmits the Washington, DC, Nashville, Seattle, and some Los Angeles stations. Each of these markets are on different beams, but able to use the same frequency bandwidth. The satellite is broadcasting five transponder 18's to different areas of the country.

Therefore, there is no way to receive the Chicago locals via DirecTV in Tennessee. Dish Network has the network channels from Chicago on a CONUS beam, which allows Dish Network to broadcast those the Chicago locals as a distant network.
MLBurks said:
If I had cable, I would have one local out of Jackson, all four networks out of Memphis, three out of Nashville and three out of Paducah KY. Why then if cable would serve me these locals, satellite can not?
Ah, and you've now come back full circle. The requirement for offering local channels in the original law is that if a market is offered, then all channels in the market must be offered. For your market, Jackson, TN has an ABC channel, a UPN channel, and a PBS channel. With some disclaimers, all three stations must be made available to you if DirecTV or Dish Network were to add the market.

Then, with the change in the law in December, 2004, the companies are allowed to give you significantly-viewed channels, from the FCC's significantly-viewed list, under two conditions:

1) You receive your local channels (in your case, you do not)
2) The satellite company decides to come to agreements with these significantly-viewed channels and give them to the customer.

Now, for my example: I live in the southern part of the Baltimore DMA. I can get the DC locals with rabbit ears. The significantly-viewed list allows the satellite companies to give me the DC networks. Dish Network has offered the DC local channels in my county, along with the Baltimore channels. However, DirecTV has not.

For your example? If Jackson, TN, is ever made available to satellite companies, the FCC's significantly-viewed list says the satellite companies can deliver these channels to you:

WSMV, 4, Nashville
WTVF, 5, Nashville
WKRN, 2, Nashville
WREG, 3, Memphis
WPSD, 6, Paducah

I hope this makes some sense.
 
T

Tower Guy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 1, 2005
745
116
Greg Bimson said:
So I'll try to clear up some misconceptions, here...

Then, with the change in the law in December, 2004, the companies are allowed to give you significantly-viewed channels, from the FCC's significantly-viewed list, under two conditions:

1) You receive your local channels (in your case, you do not)
2) The satellite company decides to come to agreements with these significantly-viewed channels and give them to the customer.

I believe that there may be legal for the DBS companies to deliver CBS, NBC, and FOX to you if they are significantly viewed because there are no competing in-market network stations for CBS, NBC, and FOX.

The DBS companies have not embraced SV and instead have appealed the decision on the new rules to the FCC.

It also appears that some stations have requested excusivity in spite of the significantly viewed status of their nearby competitors. This appears to be at least part of the reason that D* and E* have not fully implemented SV.
 
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MLBurks

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 8, 2004
491
0
Huntingdon TN
Thanks to all for all the info. I have a much better understanding with this situation. Thanks especially to Greg Bimson:hatsoff:
 
S

scotsmanron

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 23, 2006
542
0
Florida
Didn't the sat companies withdraw their complaints over SV?
 
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