Low SR Channels (1 Viewer)

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brentb636

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 24, 2006
4,278
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5 miles N of Saugatuck, Mi
the question is how many of them. If only one, you are missing some.

The microHD suffers the same problem as the often-talked about Manhattan in blind scanning in a dense signal environment (like those particular transponders on G3C c-band that have a lot of signals close together) but the good news is the microHD has blind scan flexibility (various parameters) that makes it perform better than the manhattan but the microhd isn't perfect at finding everything available.
I DO appreciate the having the capability to change blindscan options. It's a nice touch .
 
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Babadem

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 21, 2007
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Try the Echostar slate on 105W Ku. It's SR=1000, and the Manhattan blindscans it, but openbox can't see it.

It missed it using both normal and accurate blind scan modes. I had to enter it manually. BTW, I'm using the latest firmware off of 97.0°W.
 

SatelliteAV

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Lifetime Supporter
Sep 3, 2004
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Roseville, CA
How long does the Echostar slate channel take to lock and display when tuning from another transponder?

The channel scans in fine on several of our test systems using the Normal mode with a GEOSATpro 90cm dish and the SL2 bullet. Noticed that the channel does lock in much faster with the PLL LNBFs.
 

richyrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 2, 2008
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I'm watching me tv with CC; who care's! it's sr is higher! in a shared channel bandwidth schema, where there are 20 channels; the symbol rate goes at a high rate, as a requirement; but the sids, tids and nids may be low too. In the mapping of the signal, it is input into the selection of the channel to be scanned, yet missing on entry by manual until lock achieved. S2 channels have not had very many channels per TP to send their signal as and can use only "1000"; which makes their bandwidth used go down. It also suffers the signal a little as a "tuner" receives it; because it is only tuning the symbol rate at a polarity. The signals originator could easily change to full use of Symbol Rate; easily making 10-20 channels @ a 20,000 SR. However, it is the broadcasters perog as to what they want to do; send one or many channels.

If the channel is there, yet missing on entry until it is entered by manual PID, and then lock is achieved so that it can be scanned; can it be that the receiver ignores something when blind scanning? or does it create an idea of the lock on a certain freq. with certain symbol rate with certain polarity; then miss the number 1000 as symbolic; is the lnbf's fault because it's time to lock is shortened because of noise added by lnbf's that have less stability and more noise than a better Avenger; which the receiver then tunes, which would be a partial component of the signal it try's to lock to; and is the only channel on the required blind scan; is KTEL?
 
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Mr Tony

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Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
295
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Mankato, MN
If the channel is there, yet missing on entry until it is entered by manual PID, and then lock is achieved so that it can be scanned; can it be that the receiver ignores something when blind scanning?
because some transponders take a while to lock a signal (KTEL is notorious for that) a manual scan will bring it in. Not because manual scan is better but because the TP is programmed in and your sitting on that transponder in the receiver waiting for it to lock. Blind scan just scans the frequencies trying to get something to lock. And if on a manual scan it takes 3 or 4 seconds to lock the signal the blind scan misses it.

I have worked with many FTA receivers here (last count was somewhere around 60 or so....not including 4DTV or analog) and even when KTEL was on 79W some receivers would miss it on a blind scan. Now that its on 87W it seems to take longer for it to lock even with trying different frequencies (up and down a MHZ or 2)
 

DRCars

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 16, 2010
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Southern USA
the question is how many of them. If only one, you are missing some.

The microHD suffers the same problem as the often-talked about Manhattan in blind scanning in a dense signal environment (like those particular transponders on G3C c-band that have a lot of signals close together) but the good news is the microHD has blind scan flexibility (various parameters) that makes it perform better than the manhattan but the microhd isn't perfect at finding everything available.
Yeah, I am seeing that it's having trouble with close signals with low SR. It missed at least 2 of 3 QPSK 3978 SR signals on SES 2 KU that I was interested in and found only 1. There are 3 in a row jammed right together. Detailed scan didn't help, neither did limiting the SR < 10,000. Put in the TP info and they scan in fine although a little weak at around 55% signal quality. My old Pansat 2700A blind scanned with similar results (got 1 of the 3).

DRCars
 

richyrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 2, 2008
480
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Dish, LNBf, receiver

I like to manually input my known transponders as the 1st transponder on my lists. That way it shows immediately when scanning for channels. These channels go at the start of my scanning because they are always there, 100% of the time. After I know the satellite dish is receiving "normal" signal and quality levels; then I "do the rest"; which entail's setting up the dish to track and receive as a high a signal and quality level of each satellite available. Now I know the system is working to the best it can; and lower power level TP's are checkered into my tp lists. Blind scan requires the best your dish can provide it; so any 36" dish is better than any 30" dish! This "sizing" lowers the noise the lnbf amplifies (SNR); therefore works as a system better. After all the "tuning"; now blind scan works as a software correctly; but manual entry has been around since 1992 when all this digital signal began; so I then go into this subject of low sr's. It is very important, still, that the dish receives every satellite perfectly; and it is whether it works on low sr channels mostly. And when it gets down to it, reception using C Band signals requires a stable and noiseless environment for a receiver to tune! Same thing, dish size is the embellishing factor, bar none! If using 8 foot; you get 8 foot signal. If using 10 foot; you get 10 foot signal! There is no way around it, dish size is a very large factor. Noisy LNBf, you bet! Especially if you have a smaller dish! And especially today, when you have 20-40 channels on a 30 MHz bandwidth = 20 at 1.3 MHz each or 40 at .667 MHz! Then an lnb that is 1 MHz stable (a norm) is close to or not able to be working! Noise will stop quality! But every satellite receiver is then really the same, because really, DVB-S2 receivers all have the same "tuning" abilities. It is what is input to it that allows it to work or not work. All tuners have a specification; and if the receiver does not receive something within this "specified range"; it will not work!

PID ENTRY has been around since 1992 in receiver designs. It works! Congrats to microHD for including this "great" feature!

A great test is SatMex 5 and 6 C Band satellites for those living in the southern corn belt, san diego to texas/florida area. Many low SR's; lots of them; and great signals!

By the way; I have a 1.4 dB KU linear single LNBf (one of the first made to go on a KU only dish) if you would like to try "arcing" a dish. It still works!
 
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Babadem

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May 21, 2007
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Blind scan (Accurate) didn't pickup 3937 V 2825 SR DVB-S2 on 72.0°W CBand. I had to do a manual scan to pull in the Channels on that MUX.
 

SatelliteAV

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Sep 3, 2004
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Roseville, CA
3937 on 72w Blind Scans in fine on the microHD with both normal and detailed using a 7' mesh and C2 LNBF here in Northern CA. Not sure of the exact cause and the differences in our systems, but frequency stability and carrier to noise ratios become very important with S2 and low symbol rate signals.

Do you have an opportunity to swap LNB(s) and compare?
 

Bongu

FTA addict - suffering withdrawal since moving
Oct 20, 2010
648
65
Fort Worth 'burbs
Iceberg said:
dang gotta go through the couch cushions and find some change to buy one of these. Sounds like it would be better than what I currently use on the 76cm dish

I'm thinking the same thing Ice. I just hope my wife hasn't already shaken the couch down.

Sent from my Timex Sinclair using SatelliteGuys
 

SatelliteAV

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Sep 3, 2004
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Roseville, CA
Not going to be able to test at this time as not locking the 99w / 1562SR signals on the c-band dish with any receiver including the Super Buddy meter. Need to wait for a cooler day to go on the roof and investigate what is going on.

These Mexico channels locked on several months ago during beta testing, but haven't checked recently.
 

skysurfer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
1,737
42
Cool can anyone try to find the Mexican locals on 99w cband with this receiver? There is at least 4 with a 1562SR.

There were 3 active signals of that SR when I looked at them late Tuesday evening with my 8.5 foot solid dish and Norsat 8115 C-band LNB.

MicroHD blind scan-detailed with SR <10,000: 2 of the 3 channels found in blind scan
MicroHD blind scan-normal with SR<10,000: 1 of the 3 channels found in blind scan
MicroHD blind scan-normal with SR=ALL: 2 of the 3 channels found in blind scan.

In the ones where 2 of the 3 were found, the MicroHD always missed one that was in a grouping of two carriers side by side. The third one that was split off from that grouping by 4 MHz or so was always found in each test.

Manually adding a TP for that third one workede, but it's a case that you have to know about the signal parameters to add it since blind scan won't find it.

Manhattan by comparison only found 1 of the 3 in its default non-changeable setting so the MicroHD with some of it's blind scan flexibility options does a little better in blind scanning low SR, relative close together carriers but it isn't perfect.
 
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