Mini-Bud C/KU Lnb options

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Arion

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 23, 2005
496
218
Hi all;

In about a week I'll be purchasing a 1.2 meter dish from Global and am looking for some ideas on how you have configured your lnb's for those of you that have done this. I currently have a Invacom QPH-031 and I use the circular side of it to get the unencrypted audio off the DirecTv birds. I also have a DMX-242 Lnb for the Cband side and I've experimented with this Lnb on my 90cm dish just for kicks.

Here is the dilemma. Do I mount the Cband lnb centerline and offset the other lnb or vice versa? It's an interesting problem. Cband on the 1.2 meter dish is iffy at best and if I mount if off center the performance will be even worse. However if I mount the Cband lnb on center then the linear lnb is offset and that will cause problems as well.

Before I had the Invacom I strapped the circular lnb next to my linear and the circular was about 4 degrees offset. With the Cband lnb w/scalar being so big the other lnb will be a lot further than four degrees out. However you do it the centerline lnb would be able to use USALS and then I imagine for the other one I would need to use Diseqc 1.2 in order to save the off centerline satellite locations.

I have experimented a bit with the different LNB mounts and at least on my 90cm dish I'm not having any luck at all if I side mount the Cband lnb. I either have to mount the Cband Lnb higher or lower than the support arms otherwise the arms are in the way and if I do that then the lnb is way off the sweet spot.

I have given some thought for a combination C/KU lnb such as the DMX-741 but I have read that since this LNB is designed for prime focus the Cband side will usually perform o.k. with the conical scalar but the KU side will suck. And I'm looking forward on the KU side with the bigger dish to be able to lock in some more of the DVB-S2 KU feeds and so I need all the gain I can get with the higher FEC.

So...as you can see there are trade offs here so I'm wondering what some of you have come up with that have done this in the past. I have read the various Mini-bud threads but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on some of these issues. Any helpful comments are welcome.
 

FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
From all I've read/tried/heard, If you want a mini on C band, put the feed at the sweet spot. with the conical scalar. But it will only get the STRONGEST of TP's. S2 need LOTS of signal, and careful aiming on a 10 foot dish. The 1.2 will work great on Ku, but is actually too small for S2 on C band. (My beliefe) There are some S2's I cannot lock on my 10 ft. Scour the countryside for a 10 ft BUD. As I think you'll be disappointed with the overall (East to West) C band performance of a mini.
 

Arion

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 23, 2005
496
218
I realize with the mini that it's impossible to get the S2 feeds on Cband...thats not what I'm attempting to do. I'm talking about the S2 feeds on KU. Such as the mux on 85 that is open once in a while (which I get fine on my existing dish) and the S2 NBC air feeds on KU, ect. I would love to get a large BUD but I have line of site issues thats why for the time being the best I can do is the 1.2 M dish with a roof mount. Primarily interested the the peeps that are running a 1.2 dish currently and what is working for them.
 

updatelee

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2006
1,604
111
CFB Edmonton
Id get something bigger then the sg2100 for moving the dish. mine moves a 1m winegard but I wouldnt trust it with anything bigger or heavier.
 

comfrey

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 21, 2009
241
1
BC
Cband on a 1.2m dish is all dependent on your location (location, location, location)... I never had much luck on the west coast at 48 degrees lat. The most I could hope for is some 91W and 99W standard def and then I could "some times" get 91W.(It proved to be frustrating)
The 1.2m is very good at getting any Ku content. I never got to the point of having the Cband LNB with the conical scalar ring as primary, and the ku as a sidecar. I ditched the whole experiment and went straight to a BUD for CBand.
Blood pressure dropped 10 points.

I realize with the mini that it's impossible to get the S2 feeds on Cband...thats not what I'm attempting to do. I'm talking about the S2 feeds on KU. Such as the mux on 85 that is open once in a while (which I get fine on my existing dish) and the S2 NBC air feeds on KU, ect. I would love to get a large BUD but I have line of site issues thats why for the time being the best I can do is the 1.2 M dish with a roof mount. Primarily interested the the peeps that are running a 1.2 dish currently and what is working for them.
 

chapelrun

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Feb 12, 2008
962
12
Berryville, VA
My experience

I have a 4 foot mini-BUD fixed on 91W using a DMX-741 but have never gotten any KU with this setup. I'm very happy with this setup but I'm getting my 10 foot dish on Monday. An old solid Channel Master

The way the DMX-741 is designed you really need a larger dish with the LNBF centered in order to get enought KU signal. I have a separate motored dish for KU only.

I had done a 90cm miniBud using the same DMX-741 and conical scalar but it took me hours to get it pointed correctly.

I agree with the others that suggest after the 1.2 you will someday want a bigger C-Band dish (that is what happened to me) :up
 

kodaz

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Aug 22, 2010
579
31
North East PA
I played around with mini buds for a bit on a 40 x 43" dish. Here is what i learned;
1. needs to go in sweetspot of dish.

2. set conical at edge/end of Lnb , will save argument of fd later on.

3. There are diminishing gains to be had by adding a fourth scalar ring, but the 4th ring helped just enough to allow more viewing on bird 91. Stronger tp's not usually more tp's.

4. U can use all sorts of linear lnb's off to the side of all this, but they never come close to what u get at the sweetspot. I watched 91c, 83ku,,101ku.
All the ku lnb's never had super Q .

5. I can only speak for myself on this next one. for me and my specific dish, i had about 5 more Q (varies and applies only on cband) by NOT skewing the dish.

6. I would reccommend a bud over a mini anyday except where you are 40 stories up and have to hang out your window to mount the dish. u dont want to plummet to the earth and land on a car at 32 ft per second per second. somebody will be mad that u damaged thier car with your body!!

Mini buds make nice toys though.

Here is a pic of my old one before i upgraded to my bud.
Also, walrus has much to say on the subject in some of his input in the forum.
 

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Arion

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 23, 2005
496
218
Thanks much!! These are the kind of comments I was fishing for. I'll probably really get the bug with this and end up with a real BUD next year but I have line of sight issues currently without cutting down a lot of trees so this will let me play with Cband a bit. In that case I'll use the 1.2 as a super KU dish only. Should be good enough for high fec S2 feeds on KU I'd imagine.
 

updatelee

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 22, 2006
1,604
111
CFB Edmonton
I can tune S2 KU with my 1m winegard so a 1.2m would be just that much better. if its a good 1.2m. There are good and bad dish's no matter the size out there. dont buy junk you'll never be happy.
 

Arion

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 23, 2005
496
218
There seems to be only a couple of options for the 1.2 dish....unless you want to pony up for a commercial dish. I was looking at either the Geosatpro 1.2 or the WS1247M that Galaxy sells. The fine tune elevation rod on the Geosat is nice. I've got the same thing on my Hughes dish. But, I'll probably go with the WS dish, that has been reviewed here and it seems like the overall comments are positive. The shipping sucks though, almost $150 up here. I was told that if I lived in Green Bay it would only be $85 so go figure.
 

chapelrun

SatelliteGuys Pro
Pub Member / Supporter
Feb 12, 2008
962
12
Berryville, VA
Keep searching around

I have found most of my dishes for free or almost free.

I recently found a 1.2 meter for $20 just by seeing it knocking on the door and asking.

If you are patient you should be able to find one locally either free or very cheap.

Local Craigslist is sometimes helpful too.
 

scottc98

SatelliteGuys Pro
Feb 28, 2006
1,342
0
Columbus, OH
Cband on a 1.2m dish is all dependent on your location (location, location, location)... I never had much luck on the west coast at 48 degrees lat. The most I could hope for is some 91W and 99W standard def and then I could "some times" get 91W.(It proved to be frustrating)
The 1.2m is very good at getting any Ku content. I never got to the point of having the Cband LNB with the conical scalar ring as primary, and the ku as a sidecar. I ditched the whole experiment and went straight to a BUD for CBand.
Blood pressure dropped 10 points.

I can personally tell you that getting S2 Cband on a mini-bud is NOT impossible. I've been able to receive and view quite a few, but I think that comfrey may have something: location!! I've always been extremely happy with my mini-bud and pick up about 65% of the tps that I would like to recieve (btw 72w-139). The main one are btw 72 and 121. Moving past 121 gets some very marginal results (no s2 and few solid, watchable S tps). That may be to alignment or location.

Regarding KU and Cband, I've done a # of LNB combinations and placement. Right now, Im happy with a DMX242 at center (w/conical scalar ring) and a dish FSS KU lnb to the side (about 5-6 degs off center) . I get my prime Cband with some pretty good KU readings (still have some stationary dishes for my main KU sats). Others have done the opposite (ku at center and Cband on the side) and have been happy. I think it does depend on location, careful setup, and compromise (got to give a little on both ends). If you watch more KU stuff or there are a few sat/tps that you can not live without, concentrate on those first and then worry about the other band.

If you can't go larger, a 4 footer is a good solution. If you can, why are we having this discussion...buy a bigger dish :)
 

dfecarter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 14, 2006
476
31
Connecticut
mini bud LNB question

Hi have been reading with interest your discuss on 4' dishes!
I am going to replace my 3' dish with a 4' soon. Can't go any larger unfortunately.
Think my wife would leave me, plus a BUD on my roof in my neighborhood would be quite rare and unsightly, as I already have a Directv dish and an OTA antenna.
Anyways, my main goal is to keep some of the Ku chs. I've been receiving but more importantly, add c-band capability. From what I have been reading I can probably expect to receive perhaps about 20% of what's on c-band - with a 4' mini bud.
I have a 4' fortec off set dish, motorized and I bought a KU/C combo LNB from Sadoun. Does anyone have any opinions on whether I'd be better off just using a c-band LNB rather than the combo. Or perhaps using my current ku band lnb off center and then using a c-band in center? Or maybe I should just ditch the KU band and settle for c-band reception only?
I did buy the conical scaler for the c-band lnb.
Any experiences to share re:the ku/c band combo lnbs?
Thanks!
 
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