Motorized dish at an apartment?

[GutBomb]

I live in an apartment so filling up my balcony with a bunch of dishes pointed at various birds is not an option. plus i have about $400-$500 to spend on a system so a motor is definitely in the cards. here is the system I am looking to set up:

motorized 30" dish w/single lnb
pansat 2500a

now on the railing of the balcony i already have my directv dish and i am planning on keeping that for the wife (fta while cool, is just not wife friendly)

My question is... is the concrete filled bucket with pole sticking out of it a viable option for a 30" dish? I am hoping so. We rarely go out there and there is a lot of room there so it will not get physically moved by us. the balcony is pretty well shielded from wind and weather as well, and i have a VERY awesome view of the entire southern sky (i am in central illinois)

I am planning on decorating the bucket with plants or something to keep the apartment complex off my back, but there is not much they can really say, I am allowed to have as many dishes as i want as long as they are in my area and not protruding into any areas not controlled by myself.

 

[PSB]

If you can get a 95cm or 1 meter dish as you will regret it later and its only an inch or so bigger all round, it looks like the bucket mount is your only choice, if its a big enough bucket with enough cement it should not be a problem, the soil and plants are a great touch, you could also paint the dish matt black or what ever suits best to help make it disappear. The problem with a bucket is that the dish tilts as it turns so you want the dish as low as you can but you will have to motor east and west to make sure it does not hit the bucket, on the SG2100 there is a button on it so you can motor the dish from the mount, this is handy when setting it up, if the dish did move in the wind all you would need to do is motor round to your true south satellite re-peak and away you go again. Its not an ideal situation but it would not hold me back from FTA satellite, the problem with balconies is the elevation angle, sometimes overhangs are a problem, hope it works out.

 

[GutBomb]

what would be the difference between a 30" dish and a 1 meter dish?

i was thinking of putting the dish at the top of a 5 foot pole. i have a good 10 feet of vertical area to work with, so the dish touching the bucket should not be an issue.

also overhangs shouldn't be a problem either, since i have a lot of area to work with as well. I attached a photo so you can see how things are arranged. also another question about the noise generated by a dish motor... are they very loud? right behond where the dish would be is a large sliding glass door that leads into the bedroom.

 

[PSB]

There is a buzz when the dish moves but nothing that you can hear from inside and I cant imagine it bothering anyone, the bigger the dish the more signal thats about it, the more signal the less rain fade.... But after seeing your picture maybe a 30" would work as one things for sure the dish will not be getting too wet, the over hang does still seem a problem, I still think you will need to get the dish as low and snug to the bucket as you can, at the same time the signal has to clear the railing. I would suggest a satellite finder tool, or even better cut out a bit of cardboard to the highest and lowest elevation you will be looking at in the ark and check out for a clear line of sight, the over hang will be in the way the higher the dish, you are looking for a clear line of sight at the top and bottom of you dish not just the LNB. Hope this helps.

 

[GutBomb]

are there specific brands or models of dish, lnb, or motors i should look for? and as for the satellite finder, should I just get the analog cheapo model or should i spend the big bucks ($99) on the pro model? is there much of a difference? If i am correct i only need to find 2 birds myself, and the receiver will extrapolate the positions of the rest? I am new to the whole satellite scene. about the only thing i am sure about is the receiver. i also don't really know what dealers are the best, but i have looked at several sites online.

As you probably noticed in the photo the directv installer ignored the permission letter from the landlord and has the dish hanging outside the balcony. i got a note from the landlord and he is coming back out tomorrow to fix it. Is it a good idea to ask him about where to get cheap dishes and motors, or would he think i am trying to switch away from D* and not just compliment it?

 

[PSB]

The DirecTV installer may be able to help you but most really are limited to DBS installation, as for the satellite finder I was really meaning a site survey tool, to check out all the angles before you buy, as for finding the satellite the receiver and the TV in the room would work, if you check my web site there is a link to DMSI and you can pick any of the dish and LNB from there. As for the Dish the 30" Hotdish would work for you in this sheltered area or the Wineguard if you would rather the dish was a bit more sturdy, I use the SG2100 motor works great and easy to install one angle to set and you are good to go, it has a button on it so you can also motorize from the dish when setting up this is more for setting the limits in case it hits the bucket in your case.
Wonder where the DirecTV dish is going to go if they take it off the railing? I would wait and see how your signal is if he has to move it inside the balony, I would also get the cardboard out and check all you elevation angles before you buy anything.

 

[GutBomb]

the directv guy is still going to mount the dish to the railing but he is going to turn the pole around so it is on the inside of the balcony not outside. it is ok with the apartments if the lnb hangs over the railing, justn ot the entire dish. Since I'm pretty new at this, are there any diagrams of the arc? or a website i can enter my zip code in to that can roughly tell me the angles of the higest birds so i can check it out?

 

[PSB]

http://www.satsig.net/ssazelm.htm

http://www.kusat.com/install/calculator.php

 

[GutBomb]

Thanks a lot for your help! I have decided on the SG2100 motor also, but I am not sure about what LNB to get. I happen to be a HUGE soccer fan so i am sure my dish will be pointed at T5 most of the time but it just so happens that GolTV is FTA on one of the E* birds right now so i might be spending some time over there as well. will just about any ku band LNB do me fine?

Sorry for asking all these newbie questions.

I don't think I mentioned before but I am planning on documenting the whole setup with pics and text on a website so newbies like me will have a better idea of what do do.

I am going to go out to the balcony today with a protractor (hehe hi-tech) and figure out the best place to stick the dish, since i know where to point it now.

Even figuring out how to do all this stuff is fun. actually getting it all set up and working will be a blast, and my reward will be lots of international soccer, just in time for the 2004/2005 season

 

[PSB]

I come from the UK so I love soccer too, you will need a standard Ku LNB for the regular FTA satellites (T5....) But you will need a DBS LNB for Gol TV and any other dbs FTA channels, you could get a 30" dish with a LNB bracket and you can put both LNB on the same dish, thats what I do so I get the best of both worlds, you are right its alot of fun just setting up these systems its a great project with some great FTA programming at the end, I think its a great idea documenting every thing as it will bring an insight to people who think its beyond them as it really is not, if you take it one step at a time, and do your homework. What angles did you get for your elevation of your true south satellite, thats the first thing you will need and its also needed when you set the dish up, all you should have to do is set the dish to your true south bird and the rest falls into place, but remember that the pole will have to be exactly plumb, close is not good enough. Also there may be a problem with your DirecTV dish in the way of your view of the satellites.

 

[GutBomb]

please pardon my ignorance. i've got my latitude and lognitude in the kusat.com look angle calculator. How would i determine which satellite is my true south satallite? is it the one that would be the one closest to actual south from my location? also... when you say plumb, do you mean level? i'm a perfectionist so it will definitely be right

Since I am bringing a second LNB into the mix does that mean i will need to look into a switch as well?

 

[PSB]

You would be better running two cables in my opinion as your main cable run goes through the motor to power it, but a two way DiSEqC 1.2 switch is pretty cheap so its up to you, yes plumb means dead level all round check the below link, its about c-band but the principles are much the same when it comes to a smaller dish. Yes your true south satellite is the satellite thats closest to true south in your location, so if you have a compass its south then whatever your magnetic deviation is in your area. The below link also deals with this, if you told me your coordinates/zip I can work it out for you, but you want to be able to say you worked it all out your self thats half the fun (IMO)
http://www.geo-orbit.org/
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/grndpole.html#anchor28895

 

[GutBomb]

Ok, true south... I looked at this map here:
http://www.kusat.com/P/install/foot/magnetic.gif

i just so happen to live smack dab in the middle of illinois (61701 40.46 x 88.97)

the big red line in the map goes right through my town so i followed it all the way down to the equator which would place it right around 82.5 the closest 2 birds are Nimiq 2 (82) or AMC9 (85). Would I set my true south to be Nimiq 2 then? If so my elevation for that would be 42.66. for comparison my directv dish is 34.6 or 38.9 (not sure which to use, 101 or 110)

(for sat tracking i used: http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/america.html)

ok the LNB/motor thing.

in a 1 lnb setup i assume this is how it works. lnb connects to the motor, then the motor connects to my receiver. if i were to go with a dual lnb setup (one DBS one Ku) would the motor have 2 inputs for lnbs and still just one cable going back to my receiver?

Thank you SO much with all your help. I appreciate it immensely and hope that someday after I get all my stuff set up I can help someone else

(if there was a way to give reputation points on this forum similar to bigsoccer.com i'd give you buttload of 'em)

btw, i would normally think we should talk in a PM but maybe people can find all this info useful.

 

[PSB]

Just one input output on the motor I use my main KU LNB in the focal point of the dish connected this way and I have the dbs offset on the side as the dbs satellites are much stronger, and I have an independant cable run from the dbs LNB, thats just the way I do it since I have a few receivers here, and a few TV/monitors.
The big red line down the map means there is next to no magnetic deviation it your area? Maybe someone can chip in there. I am getting your true south satellite as 89w Telstar 4+8, but use AMC-3 at an elevation of 43.68deg, but here is a great link to show you a few sample installs.
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Installation/HH-mount-installation.htm

I enjoy FTA satellite its alot of fun and I have been setting up motorized systems since the mid eighties, glad to help.

 

[GutBomb]

well I can always try both birds. unfortunately i won;t actually have any of the equipment in my posession for about a month and a half just trying to plan everything out now.

i did some reading about how i would integrate a switch (on that installation example you posted a link for). seems pretty simple to me.

something i have forgotten to mention... grounding. I am on the 3rd floor and the complex is not going to let me run a cable to the ground. Do you know how I could accomplish something like this?

 

[PSB]

I was wondering how long it would take you to ask about the grounding question in apartments : )If you are doing the install yourself, then check the below grounding link it would be BEST to ground to one of these five grounding points, as it really should be grounded to local and NEC code, I dont see how they can stop you grounding the system if they let you have a dish in your private area, how is the DirecTV dish grounded? Surely that is done to code! If not you could do that at the same time, but I would INSIST that the DirecTV installer grounds to code as he signed he did, then just copy what he does!

http://dbsinstall.com/Whatis/Whatisgood-5.htm

 

[GutBomb]

thanks for that. when I get home I will check how the dish was done (if it was done. i only remember 4 cables coming off the dish, all of them going to recievers)

what are the risks for zapping myself while getting it grounded?

as for the mount i am now leaning more towards something like this:
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/...A-3ft-tower.htm
http://pw1.netcom.com/~ckuter/towerbase.jpg

maybe putting a large planter in front of it to weigh down the platform. my wife would love that.

it should be a lot lighter than a bucket full of concrete so when i move i won't kill myself lugging an 80 pound bucket with a pole sitcking out of it. (i'm not planning on remaining an apartment dweller much longer but i just can't wait to get into the action) and should be a lot easier than mixing a bucket of concrete too

 

[Mr Tony]

Not to but in, but Pete gave the wrong true south
GutBomb, your true south is either 89 (there is nothing there) or 87 (AMC3 is there)

T5 would be for someone a little west of Mpls, MN

 

[PSB]

Thanks Tony! I was using the calculator for motorized systems but of course the true south satellite has to be worked out with a fixed dish calculator, what a forum to have such great help just a click away : )

 

[GutBomb]

don't feel like you're butting in. while this thread is mostly giving me a bunch of information I hope it can also help others who are interested in getting into this fascinating hobby.

without digressing this thread too much, PSB, please don't tell me you're a spurs fan.