msg and msg+ wil they give in

[AntiMoz]

Forget it. I don't want most non-sports stuff, if I have to pay for that, you've got to pay for sports. Some scheme that forces me to pay for a basic package with women's and children's channels and then asks for a sports premium on top of it would cause me to jump ship from any provider I'm with as soon as the contract expires if not sooner........

I have to agree. As much as ala-carte pricing makes sense, there are economies of scale that likely keep subscriber prices down by spreading the cost of programming across the entire subscriber base. If Dish or any other provider were to create base package with all sports or all kids or all movies tiers I really wonder how much the tiers would cost based on the number of subs buying them. I suspect that the individual tier costs would be astronomical depending on the demand for each. This being said, the tiered system seems to work in Canada.

As for the Sabres starting their own RSN, the contract with MSG runs through 2016-2017 season. Ted Black pretty much ruled this option out in a radio interview on GR last week. Too lucrative to the Sabres to stay in or too expensive to buy out the contract. The Sabres don't say anything bad about MSG publicly because the are in bed with them. It's always the fault of the carrier. They just throw up their arms and say switch to DirecTV or FIOS if you want to watch the games.

Like "Visitor" above, now I'm stuck with 2 providers that don't carry MSG.

For me, I would just love to have the blackout restrictions lifted from NHL Gamecenter so that I can watch from anywhere the Internet is available. Let the NHL share Gamecenter revenue back to MSG or to the team for the Gamecenter subs, assuming they don't already. If I'm in the home team territory, black out the out of market team's broadcast and show the darn commercials so the network gets credit for the advertising revenue. They (MSG) wont go for this though because then they run the risk of losing subs from the primary cable/satellite providers and lose revenue in the process.

 

[P51-SN95]

I couldn't agree with you more. Even though these stalemates cost Cablevision lost revenue they are so warped in their thinking that they probably think they are coming out ahead by limiting their competitors. Your example about them holding out on HD from Dish while they still carried MSG is a perfect example. It doesn't surprise me that Direct and FIOS probably paid an outrageous price because that was the only way they could get it from Cablevision. When I lived in their backyard on Long Island (before satellite was a real option) and there were no other choices I can tell you they were the most arogant company I have ever dealt with in any medium. I always laugh when people complain here about Dish because while they are far from perfect on their worse day they are still 10 times better to deal with than Cablevision.

From what I've read, the only reason why Fios finally got the MSG HD feed was due to a court ruling that said the Feed had to be made available to them. I could be wrong about that but I swear I read something along those lines in the Buffalo news a few weeks/months ago and how now the Sabres games would be on in HD on Fios.

As for the Sabres starting their own RSN, the contract with MSG runs through 2016-2017 season. Ted Black pretty much ruled this option out in a radio interview on GR last week. Too lucrative to the Sabres to stay in or too expensive to buy out the contract. The Sabres don't say anything bad about MSG publicly because the are in bed with them. It's always the fault of the carrier. They just throw up their arms and say switch to DirecTV or FIOS if you want to watch the games.

Like "Visitor" above, now I'm stuck with 2 providers that don't carry MSG.

For me, I would just love to have the blackout restrictions lifted from NHL Gamecenter so that I can watch from anywhere the Internet is available. Let the NHL share Gamecenter revenue back to MSG or to the team for the Gamecenter subs, assuming they don't already. If I'm in the home team territory, black out the out of market team's broadcast and show the darn commercials so the network gets credit for the advertising revenue. They (MSG) wont go for this though because then they run the risk of losing subs from the primary cable/satellite providers and lose revenue in the process.

Yeah I heard that too, but I hope the Sabres have some sort of "opt out" clause with MSG. Something along the lines of "if your channel becomes unavailable to less than X% of our area viewers, then we have the right to also give the rights to another provider" Granted I'm sure they don't have that but maybe it's what they'll have to do in the future. I'm also with you about the blackout restrictions, so annoying.

I have Dish and TWC (for internet) and I was real close to switching to DirecTV but now I don't know if I want to because I don't know when DirecTV's deal with MSG runs out. I know they just did their deal in 2009 or 2010, so if they only did a 2 year deal it'll be up in the middle of next season. I'm not willing to sign a 2 year contract with DirecTV just to risk having them lose the only channel responsible for my switch when I'm currently perfectly happy with Dish (minus not having MSG)

Also Ted Black said last week in his interview on WGR when talking about the TWC/MSG issues and when asked about Dish that he is under the impression that Dish has just flat out given up on trying to get MSG back and they're looking to do what they can to keep costs down. Basically saying that Dish won't even try to get MSG back anymore.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I have Dish and TWC (for internet) and I was real close to switching to DirecTV but now I don't know if I want to because I don't know when DirecTV's deal with MSG runs out. I know they just did their deal in 2009 or 2010, so if they only did a 2 year deal it'll be up in the middle of next season. I'm not willing to sign a 2 year contract with DirecTV just to risk having them lose the only channel responsible for my switch when I'm currently perfectly happy with Dish (minus not having MSG)

My guess is that a lot of people in the New York region are in that position. If they knew for sure that MSG would be on Directv for the next two years, they'd call up Directv and switch tomorrow from Time Warner or whomever so that they wouldn't miss any games. But when they know that MSG has gotten into disputes with two other big carriers and pulled their network, there's understandable reluctance to ink a two year commitment with anyone. No one wants to jump ship to Directv to watch the Sabres (Or whatever team they like), only to find that in a couple months, MSG pulls itself off Directv and they're stuck with 22 months of no Sabres due to the 24 month commitment required by the satellite companies. If Directv has MSG locked down long-term, it might be in their best interests to leak that information to the press ASAP so that they can benefit from people willing to switch to what their team(s).

I don't know what I'd do in your shoes. It's a tough choice. Honestly, I think if I were not under a contract commitment, in your shoes, I'd go to the Dish welcome package temporarily just so I could watch the NFL playoffs on the OTA channels and MSNBC for $15 a month. Then the first company to ink MSG- TW or Dish- would get my business long-term. Maybe Directv if I could be assured that they have MSG long-term.

Fortunately, I'm not in that position because I'm not in that area or a fan of the MSG carried teams. But I feel for the people that are. It seems like the people who really suffer are the fans. The television providers still make big profits, MSG probably still makes money, the teams still get their rights fees. But the fans don't get to see their teams play. It isn't right.

 

[Islandguy43]

It seems to be pretty obvious that Directv doesn't have a long term deal with MSG sewed up. Otherwise, we would be bombarded with radio and television commercials from Directv enticing us to switch. The only advertisements I have heard for us to switch is from MSG themselves.I was with dish for 5-6 years; loved their service and was even a beta tester for some of the products, but left almost three years ago, because I wanted the Sabres and Yankees in HD. At the time Dish had MSG but didnt have the HD feeds. TWC gave me a great deal to switch with a two year price guarantee. At the end of the two years, when they raised the prices, I called them up and gave them some "consumer greed" and demanded a price adjustment or I would move over to Directv, get the Sabres, Yankees and NFL Network plus free NFL ST all in HD, and keep just TWC for internet (I basically have no other choice for internet). They came back and gave me a another 2 year discounted price guarantee on their part with no commitment required on my part, so I stayed with them. Basically these companies have no problem pulling channels on us and raising prices, why shouldn't the consumer do the same to them.

I will probably will ride this storm out until April and the playoffs come around. I subscribe to NHL Centerice so I am committed to that extent. BTW, it is interesting that TWC and MSG pulled their feeds of the regular cable, but not off of the Centerice package. I still get the Islanders and Devils games on CenterIce from MSG in HD no less. However, I don't get the Sabres or Rangers games due to NHL Blackout Rules, but there are plenty of wild feeds available on the internet to get the games if neccssary.

 

[CK SatGuy]

Well, U-verse just MSG and MSG+ in HD in Connecticut today. AT&T Adds MSG HD And MSG+ HD For U-verse TV Customers in Connecticut | Vadvert - UK Paid Press Release Distribution Service

 

[P51-SN95]

I will probably will ride this storm out until April and the playoffs come around. I subscribe to NHL Centerice so I am committed to that extent. BTW, it is interesting that TWC and MSG pulled their feeds of the regular cable, but not off of the Centerice package. I still get the Islanders and Devils games on CenterIce from MSG in HD no less. However, I don't get the Sabres or Rangers games due to NHL Blackout Rules, but there are plenty of wild feeds available on the internet to get the games if neccssary.

I wonder how that would work for me. I live in Erie, and I switched from TWC to Dish because TWC dropped Empire/MSG from their line up here and said that it was too far away for Sabres (they show Pens games here) I went to Dish because both Dish/DirecTV give you Buffalo/Pitt/Cleveland RSN's. Fios isn't an option as it's not offered. I know I can't get the Center Ice on Dish because of black outs for sabres games. But since TWC here didn't view the sabres as a "local" team and had no way of getting their games, does mean the games wouldn't be blacked on center ice if I went to TWC?

Is there a chart or map that shows how far away you need to be from an NHL city to not be considered "local" for black out rules??

 

[chuckster_dude]

It seems to be pretty obvious that Directv doesn't have a long term deal with MSG sewed up. Otherwise, we would be bombarded with radio and television commercials from Directv enticing us to switch. The only advertisements I have heard for us to switch is from MSG themselves.

That's a very good point. All the ads MSG runs say call or go the web to find another provider. Well, at this point, it's either FIOS or DirecTv and for many, it's only DirecTv. I wonder if MSG is concerned they might be seen as colluding with DirecTv if they did that in print. I would guess MSG likely does not have a warm relationship with Verizon after the FCC made them open the HD signal to Verizon at Verizon's heavy insistence.

I'd still like to know if TWC could make a deal with the opposing team's RSN to grab their feed for games.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

I'd still like to know if TWC could make a deal with the opposing team's RSN to grab their feed for games.

I'm pretty sure that would violate the contract the opposing teams' RSNs have with the teams and the league. The RSNs basically only have the rights to show the games within a certain geographic area that corresponds with what the league feels should be a given team's home area. The only one who can sell the broadcasts outside those areas is the league itself, which does sell them-- in the form of Center Ice and the other packages that are for viewing games from teams outside your local area.

I think the league by-laws in the big four sports pretty much guarantee it's something like this (Using the Sabres as an example): The Sabres have the exclusive rights to hockey games in their area, except where it overlaps with other teams (Rangers, Islanders, Devils, for example, who in some overlapping regions can also telecast their teams' games) and for nationally telecast games on NBC and Versus. The Sabres sell those rights for a hefty fee to a local sports channel, in this case MSG. Then MSG sells the channel (with the games) to the various cable and satellite operations. It's an exclusive arrangement (except for the nationally televised games on NBC and Versus that supersede the local deals), unless the team specifically stipulates contractually they they're, say, selling some games to MSG and some games to a local over the air channel, or lets MSG re-sell some games to an over the air channel.

Therefore if you live in a market that served by MSG, the only other way to get Sabres games would be the occasional national game on Versus or NBC. Even the games on the NHL network would be blacked out (I know- I'm in an area claimed by the Capitals, Flyers, and Penguins. Even though Dish only carries the Caps and not the Flyers and Penguins, Flyers and Penguins games that make it to the NHL network are blacked out because one is supposed to watch on the RSNs that Dish doesn't carry locally). Out of market packages are sold with the stipulation that any team who claims your market has all it's games blacked out on them because you're supposed to watch on the RSN.

So, basically, no they can't buy away team feeds to send to a team's home market in lieu of picking up the local regional sports network. The local regional sports network has the exclusive rights to those games in their territory (the extra boundaries of the territory are defined by the league)..

 

[Jim5506]

What's going to have to happen is that we get fed up with the high price of payTV and go OTA.

When Dish, DirecTV and cablecos see we have reached the limit they will start to push back HARD on the providers.

The change will only happen when subscribers say NO, not before.

When my daughter and grandson move out, I will try to talk the Mrs. into going OTA.

I have 2 SD TiVos and one HD TiVo and two digital converter boxes that will keep us in DVRs and we have nearly 20 OTA channels of various kinds here to keep us entertained.

 

[dwarren2]

It's not the cableco's or sat companies. It's the provider. They are the greedy ones. Dish and TWC have already said no to MSG.

 

[Islandguy43]

What's going to have to happen is that we get fed up with the high price of payTV and go OTA.

When Dish, DirecTV and cablecos see we have reached the limit they will start to push back HARD on the providers.

The change will only happen when subscribers say NO, not before.

When my daughter and grandson move out, I will try to talk the Mrs. into going OTA.

I have 2 SD TiVos and one HD TiVo and two digital converter boxes that will keep us in DVRs and we have nearly 20 OTA channels of various kinds here to keep us entertained.

The only Hockey OTA available in Western New York is the NBC game of the Week and the Saturday Hockey Night in Canada series on CBC. However my outdoor antenna isn't strong enough to pull in the cbc feed.

 

[Islandguy43]

MSG Watch Parties aren't such a big it in NY City.

MSG Network throws

 

[HanoverPretzel]

MSG Watch Parties aren't such a big it in NY City.

MSG Network throws

Well, yeah, you've got to take the time out of your day to go to and from, pay the gas money or cab fare, deal with throngs of people, and probably pay a typical bar markup on food and beer. And you're sitting on a bar stool or whatever instead of reclining on the couch. There are going to be a lot of people who either can't afford to do that, don't want to do that, can't do that physically after a long day of work, or who's spouses would be upset if they did that for every game.

Heck, a lot of people will use intermissions of a hockey game or halftime of a basketball game to start a load of laundry or get some housework done. Can't do that if you're at a bar.

Granted, this article did say something about a free happy hour, which would perk my interest if I lived in that area...

In the end, though, people pay for cable/satellite so they can watch those games at home. If they can't do that any longer, they aren't getting what they're paying for. I can see why people are livid. Probably a lot of people driving over the cable office to yell at some people and hand their equipment back in- or at least there should be. Not saying it's all Time Warner's fault. It may be mostly MSG's fault. I won't claim to know the details of who's to blame. I just know if I were an NY sports fan, I'd be upset at all of them. They need to get together and work something out for the sake of the fans.

 

[Islandguy43]

In the end, though, people pay for cable/satellite so they can watch those games at home. If they can't do that any longer, they aren't getting what they're paying for. I can see why people are livid. Probably a lot of people driving over the cable office to yell at some people and hand their equipment back in- or at least there should be. Not saying it's all Time Warner's fault. It may be mostly MSG's fault. I won't claim to know the details of who's to blame. I just know if I were an NY sports fan, I'd be upset at all of them. They need to get together and work something out for the sake of the fans.

I am taking a wait and see until the weekend is over. I can't just dump TWC because I still need them for broadband too.

 

[AntiMoz]

At the Sabres game against Edmonton on Tuesday night there were representatives from MSG INSIDE the arena handing out propaganda urging people to switch providers so "we could have our MSG". So, anyone who thinks the Sabres are neutral in this are sadly mistaken. My sense is that the Sabres get a guaranteed fixed payment from MSG under their contract. My understanding is that the Sabres underwrite the production costs, sell all the advertising and only use MSG as their distribution media. Thus, from a financial standpoint, they really don't care if Dish or TW carries MSG.

However, the Sabres appearing to stay neutral is in their best interest from a PR perspective. It's all bull crap and we are the losers. I wonder who is paying for the watch party at FNC on Friday night......ummm......MSG?

 

[Islandguy43]

At the Sabres game against Edmonton on Tuesday night there were representatives from MSG INSIDE the arena handing out propaganda urging people to switch providers so "we could have our MSG". So, anyone who thinks the Sabres are neutral in this are sadly mistaken. My sense is that the Sabres get a guaranteed fixed payment from MSG under their contract. My understanding is that the Sabres underwrite the production costs, sell all the advertising and only use MSG as their distribution media. Thus, from a financial standpoint, they really don't care if Dish or TW carries MSG.

However, the Sabres appearing to stay neutral is in their best interest from a PR perspective. It's all bull crap and we are the losers. I wonder who is paying for the watch party at FNC on Friday night......ummm......MSG?

Ted Black on his morning Radio Show on WGR claimed if it isn't settled by the end of the week; he will be dropping his Time Warner Equipment off at the TWC next week.

 

[dwarren2]

Switching was easy before the advent of the dvr. Now with hours of programming stored on a dvr, who can afford to loose everything they have stored.

 

[Islandguy43]

For those wondering when the MSG Agreement with Directv expires, this is the best information I can find.

DirecTV, Rainbow Media/MSG Renew Carriage Contract - 2010-01-01 03:39:58 | Multichannel News

 

[chuckster_dude]

So, anyone who thinks the Sabres are neutral in this are sadly mistaken. My sense is that the Sabres get a guaranteed fixed payment from MSG under their contract. My understanding is that the Sabres underwrite the production costs, sell all the advertising and only use MSG as their distribution media. Thus, from a financial standpoint, they really don't care if Dish or TW carries MSG.

They do care if they sell the advertising (which I think they do since the commercials are all the same and the advertisers are the same as many of the arena advertisers). Rates would be based on viewership numbers and the less viewers, the less an advertiser should pay for airtime. Under that case, advertisers could ask for money back or breaks from the Sabres and that would cost the Sabres money.

Surprisingly, Chuck Schumer seemed to not want to get in the middle of this. Maybe the Dolans are campaign contributors???

Schumer Hopes For Quick TWC/MSG Solution - WBEN NewsRadio 930 : Buffalo & Niagara Falls, NY

 

[P51-SN95]

At the Sabres game against Edmonton on Tuesday night there were representatives from MSG INSIDE the arena handing out propaganda urging people to switch providers so "we could have our MSG". So, anyone who thinks the Sabres are neutral in this are sadly mistaken. My sense is that the Sabres get a guaranteed fixed payment from MSG under their contract. My understanding is that the Sabres underwrite the production costs, sell all the advertising and only use MSG as their distribution media. Thus, from a financial standpoint, they really don't care if Dish or TW carries MSG.

However, the Sabres appearing to stay neutral is in their best interest from a PR perspective. It's all bull crap and we are the losers. I wonder who is paying for the watch party at FNC on Friday night......ummm......MSG?

Yeah Ted Black didn't seem too happy about how they acted. he said they asked if they could come in and they said yes, and I think he said if he could do it over again he would. But I'm just going off of memory there so maybe that's just how I took what he said.