NCAA Notre Dame game 4k HDR today / review

bjf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 28, 2004
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Caught todays 4k HDR football game Notre Dame.

First time I've seen the NBC produced games.

Nothing to write home about.

Close ups were nice.

Wide shots poor.

The HDR was only a tiny bit better.
Pretty disappointed.

Viewed on Sony OLED 77".

This 1080P HDR while better than regular HD is still pretty disappointing.

Even on the close ups today I could see lots of artifacts.
The QB face and chin area had tiny pixelating probably some kind of conversion or low bit rate artifacting.

Of course all the slo-mo and replays had artifacting.

And at times stutter playback on the replays.

Color was ok.

But now that we've had this for the football season I only hope they spend the bucks for next year and get 100% 4k cameras to my TV.
Every step 4k HDR.

This fake 1080P 4k is just not that great.

And feeding it into a TV capable of showing amazing 4k HDR 60P it's pretty damn disappointing what Disney ESPN, Comcast NBC, and Fox are giving us.

This trial - beta run I hope will make them get their butts in gear for REAL 100% FULL 4K HDR for next season.
And open their damn wallets and spend the money to upgrade their studios as needed.

We've got the TV's and satellite / cable / APPS method to view Real 4K HDR but they are not giving it to us.
That must end now.

The Olympics will no doubt blow us away next Summer with pristine Real 4k HDR quality.
I don't want to then hit Fall and see glorious 1080P on my 4k tv for football.

Anyway, I was hoping NBC would be a slam dunk and be better then ESPN and FOX they aren't.
I think they are worse by a little.

After ESPN's mighty Earth changing press release about 4K a while back they are the biggest disappointment.
They should be a leader and should have had the REAL FULL 4K AND HDR. They completely blew it IMO.
Proving they are not a leader at all and not even 1080P HDR. Just 1080P fake 4k.

I hope 2020 will change for the better with REAL FULL 4K HDR sports.

On a side note, today I checked out the local Best Buy, they have 4K TV's so thick and everywhere in the store you can barely walk in the isles.
Costco has them stacked up bigtime too.
I think we now are ready to have SD and HD be gone and just become a 4K world.

bjf
 

longhorn23

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Nov 21, 2017
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Did you not watch the ESPN broadcast today? ESPN def has native 4k for their college football broadcast. It looked amazing. And they have atmos as well. Just not real HDR but still looked great with Directv's fake HDR.
 
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bjf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 28, 2004
197
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No I couldn't catch todays game.
But did catch my first NBC 4k game thus my post.

ESPN is not native 4k.

They might use 4k cameras but just like FOX and NBC they are downconverting in the studio to 1080P 60P and then re-upping to 4k to send out the signal to the providers.

And yes No HDR with ESPN.
The other two at least offer HDR in their fake 4k versions.

I will say that I did see one of the ESPN games a while back and posted on it.
The color was more vivid if I recall and the close shots were nice.
But just like the other two networks lots of artifacting in the replay slo-mo's and the wide shots don't look great.
The low res of HD just can't look like a Real 4K using 1/4 the data.

ESPN put out press releases on this some time back.

Stating it was being down converted to 1080P.
But still trying to sell us (like the others are too) that this is Real 4k they are offer and just so cutting edge we should pat them on the back.
But it's a load of BS.

Even if the orginating cameras are 4k they are tossing out 3/4 of the picture data and calling it 4k.



Since FOX has been lying to us since their first 4k sports game and telling us it's 4k when it's always been 1080P upconverted to 4k.
I don't believe a word of any the three companies say. My eyes can tell real Full 4k and I've not seen any of the NCAA games that even close to the Olympics.
Let alone the HDR of the Olympics was simply stunning. Both Hockey and Ice Skating, I forget the third sport they recorded in 4k HDR.
The HDR was amazing and none of these football games college of NFL are anywhere close to the Olympics.

I wish they were here now as once you see how good high bitrate real 4k HDR is you want nothing but.

Going back HD was VERY! Hard after watching the Olympics twice in 4k.

I hope 2020 is the breakout year for Real Full 4K HDR live sports in the USA.

bjf
 

longhorn23

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Nov 21, 2017
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Rowlett, TX
The Olympics is not a fair comparison because that was from 8k cameras and it was on a tape delay.

I think the ESPN 4k broadcasts are impressive and I'm just happy they are using 4k cameras. There really is no financial benefit for them to even provide 4k since there are no commercials. So I am grateful for the work, money, and resources ESPN has put into giving us these 4k broadcasts and looking forward to future ESPN 4k broadcasts. It's the best 4k sport I've seen outside of the Olympics and maybe the NBA games.
 

longhorn23

SatelliteGuys Family
Nov 21, 2017
107
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Rowlett, TX
Also could you link me to where you found the statement that ESPN was downconverting to 1080p? Because I am not seeing it in either one of those articles and have not read that anywhere else. The only thing I see in that article about 1080p is the replays being created in 1080p and then being unconverted to 4k. Thank you.
 

slice1900

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Feb 14, 2015
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If you are complaining about artifacts and pixelation you are complaining about bit rate. 1080p vs 4K has absolutely nothing to do with it.

And to echo what someone posted in another thread, is there anything you don't complain about?
 
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tmdorsey

New Member
Nov 24, 2019
2
3
McDonough
Yeah, I believe some false information is being spread in this thread. ESPN is on record saying that the whole production of theIR 4K game of the week,aside from replays, are being delivered in native 4K. No HDR yet, but definitely native 4K.
 

bjf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 28, 2004
197
58
longhorn23,

In the one link I posted it says they are doing 1080P replays.
Thus this is not end to end pure 4k. It's being downconverted.

How much who knows unless you have a friend at ESPN 4k master control.

I don't trust any of them especially as they are always using (*) for various things they don't really
want you to know or see. And then they make the text point size so itty bitty small and hard to read.
In other words they are hiding things that don't make them look good.

As an example.
Here's a ESPN press release see the very bottom. See the *.

I also saw another press release by Fox where they hype 4k but no mention about that it's 1080P.
It's these kinds of things they make me not trust any of them.
Especially after Fox lied right to our face the past years of Fox 4k.

I still laugh about ESPN's press release how they took a long time just to get 4K right.
Sound like they literally invented the wheel and spent tons of money.
And probably beta tested 'til they were blue in the face.
And yet, .... they didn't bother with HDR.
Yes, ESPN the world leader in sports. LOL
All that Disney money and too cheap to start with HDR that their
competitors were already doing.

BTW, maybe ESPN Amy can shed light on what is actually Native / 100% 4k at ESPN.
Here phone number is in the press release.

I can't find the other article from months back but I thought it was discussed here before ESPN starting having 4K football.
I will keep looking.

I will say I've only seen one ESPN game and I posted about it here.
But as I recall I was not impressed bigtime.
However I recall longhorn23 saying they had seen other games and were impressed.
And the one I saw was not great.

I don't know if the 6 ESPN games are now done or if more will still happen.
They did say the National Final game will be in 4K. It would seem odd if none of the bowl games were in 4K.
So if more are I will try and get to where I can see another game.

On the tech side though hard to acknowledge pure native 4k when they are doing 1080P replays.
You're going to pollute the native / pure 4k somehow.
Sorta like Burger Kings Impossible Whopper veggie burger being cooked with beef fat.
Man my veggie burger sure tastes like the real thing, oh you mean we forgot to tell you and Vegans that it's being
drenched in animal fat. Oops, sorry about that one....now that we've been found out.

And as for the Olympics non-live 8K downconvert.
It is possible they tweaked them with the time delay but I doubt it very much.

The time delay might have been they were just doing this as a beta test.
Learning the ropes.

Remember it was 8k for Japan / S. Korea as a big screen high tech demo.
I'd bet it was live in 8K for them. Different audio then we got.

And we got the 4k sloppy seconds.

HD was not done from this 4k.

They had their own different set of HD cameras and master control.

So the USA 4k time delay was just NBC being sloppy and not giving it live.
They easily could have.

The 8K HDR downconvert to 4K HDR was done in real time through a converter box and could have
gone right out to satellite and to us. As they made no money off it they would not waste time improving color, HDR, etc.

They however could have had commercials like they did for the HD early bonus beta test coverage they ran that F'ING sony ad a zillion times. NBC sucked then and still sucks for the Olympics !!! I wish someone else could get the Olympics or just let us buy a direct package straight from the Olympics and give them our money.
Get rid of these terrible announcers NBC forces on us. Wish we had a audio off button for all narration and just hear it like those in the venue. Like you're really there.
What a novel idea. A world with no more bob costas and his ilk.

Anyway, back to ESPN 4K.
I do hope you're 100% right and I'm wrong. If it is Full 4K Native 100% that would be great.
But I'm doubtful that is what were getting.
The No HDR is a very stupid omission however.

Lastly, I can't wait for the 4K HDR 2020 Olympics.
I hope this time it's live in 4K. I'd say a 50/50 chance of this happening with NBC.
Further I've read all the events are 8K HDR in Japan/S. Korea. so maybe DTV, Dish and others will have multiple 4K live feeds/streams for us.
We''ll know next year. Seems they never tell us about 4K until the last moment. But for sure it'll be worth the wait.
It would be so great if we got the 8K feed and were living in a 8K world. The fact we know others are getting this and we can't is disappointing.
But the 4K will look stunning no doubt about it. But will it be LIVE 4K? We'll see.

bjf
 
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bjf

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 28, 2004
197
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slice1900,

Please don't feel the need to read my posts.
I only post to share with the other posters that appreciate complex posts and issues.

And I appreciate their intelligent posts.

Your posts however. well.....

bjf
 

tmdorsey

New Member
Nov 24, 2019
2
3
McDonough
I don’t see any reason for ESPN to lie about the Live feed being 4K when they state the replays where 1080p.

From my comparison and contrast with the Fox broadcasts which we know are 1080p upconverts, there’s a clear difference. The ESPN broadcasts have more detail, in particular on the wide angle shots, and the broadcasts just appear more “clean” for lack of a better word.
 
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Jimbo

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Jul 14, 2005
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I don’t see any reason for ESPN to lie about the Live feed being 4K when they state the replays where 1080p.

From my comparison and contrast with the Fox broadcasts which we know are 1080p upconverts, there’s a clear difference. The ESPN broadcasts have more detail, in particular on the wide angle shots, and the broadcasts just appear more “clean” for lack of a better word.
:welcome2 to the site !!!!

Look around, stay awhile :)
 
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slice1900

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Feb 14, 2015
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I don’t see any reason for ESPN to lie about the Live feed being 4K when they state the replays where 1080p.

From my comparison and contrast with the Fox broadcasts which we know are 1080p upconverts, there’s a clear difference. The ESPN broadcasts have more detail, in particular on the wide angle shots, and the broadcasts just appear more “clean” for lack of a better word.

I remember people saying the same thing about Fox vs NBC games last year after NBC revealed they were upscaling the Notre Dame games and people believed Fox games were 4K.
 
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