Need help aligning Bell TV system in Chicago

[uplinkguy69]

I just upgraded the dish on my Bell 9242 system from a Dish 500 dish with a Dish Pro Plus LNB to a 40" Channel Master 84E dish with the same type LNB to get better gain since I am on the edge of the 82 deg W footprint (Was getting just 50 - 60% signal on the 82 deg W transponders & 80-95% on the 91 deg W transponders with my Dish 500)
I know though that soon 91 deg will have a footprint which matches 82 deg W.

Figured a dish twice the size should get me back up to 90-100% on all transponders and give me less rain fade.

After poking around for a while I briefly had 91W with 100% signal and 82W with 75% while I was peaking the dish but while adjusting the skew I lost everything. Seems though that a couple years ago Bell made it so that the receivers don't show any signal on their meters unless you have at least 50% strength and the meter doesn't show anything unless you been locked on for at least 10 seconds. Makes the built in meter almost worthless for finding and peaking on two sats. You really need a good professional signal meter for proper peaking of a system viewing two orbital slots.

The good meters I've seen for peaking two birds are $500. I hate to spend that kind of money for a dish that's not moving anytime soon.

After briefly having the sats but not quite peaked I fiddled for several hours then gave up. I even tried a cheap SF-95 satellite meter but I wasn't getting anything. Not sure if its only good for peaking on single orbital slot systems or if mine is broken?

If anyone could recommend a good installer in Chicago with the right satellite finder tools I'd appreciate it. Should take no time for a professional with the right tools to peak my new dish. I'm busy and I hate too waste too much time trying to peak without the right tools.
Any suggestions on a local expert I can hire or how I can efficiently and affordably get repeaked and up an running are appreciated!

 

[mikekohl]

There is very little adjustment needed in skew. Chicago is close to 87 West.
82 to 91 is 9 degrees apart, and you are maybe 1/2 degree west of the midpoint between the 2 satellites.
So set it back to zero compensation and see if you get a balance between the 2 sats when the dish is pointed halfway between them in azimuth.

 

[uplinkguy69]

Mike - Thanks for your reply. I spent over 10 hours over two days trying to peak the new dish on my own without using a professional signal meter.
In the past I usually could get away with using a compass and a cheap $15 satellite finder plus the built in meter in the DSS receiver but I was getting nowhere with the new dish.
Finally found an professional installer on the FTAinstall.com web site with a proper signal meter. He spent almost four hours trying to peak the dish.
(I had "upgraded" from my 18" Dish 500 dish to the 40" Channel Master 84E which I had purchased from Impakt distributing. They claim on their web site that it would work as an upgrade for a Dish 500 and give twice the gain.)
The professional installer I hired could get either 91 or 82 but never both at once. Also, even though this 40" dish was twice the size of my old dish 500 dish we got around 10% less signal. We finally gave up and had my Dish 500 re installed. I feel as though I've been ripped off. Maybe the design of that dish is no good for 9 degree spacing? Or maybe they are off on the spacing of the feed horn? I believe the 84E was originally built for Primestar with 6 deg spacing?
The distributor claimed the dish was adapted to be used as an upgrade for a Dish 500. But now its just another piece of junk in my basement.
Anyone have any ideas on how to find a Dish which gives more gain than a Dish 500? I would really like a dish with more gain especially with the recent launch of Nimiq 6 since Chicago is on the fringe of its footprint.

 

[Styler1]

Bell is for viewing in Canada only, so to fix your signal problems move to Canada.

 

[uplinkguy69]

I love Canada but at this point in my career I need to be in Chicago. If American TV had anything worth watching I would happily subscribe to it. I'm glad to spend $100/month on my Bell subscription to support programming that's enlightening and worth watching. To bad there is no market for good TV in America. Most American programing is trash. Its not illegal in America to watch foreign TV or read foreign newspapers. The world perspective on news that CBC, BBC & other foreign news broadcasters give is enlightening. There are way more pressing issues in the world than Kim Kardashian & Bristol Palin. When I want to see whats really important in the world I watch foreign TV. its well worth the hassle to get the content I want.

 

[mikekohl]

The 2-satellite LNBF provided with the DISH 500 is set up for the physical spacing only on the 20 inch DISH 500 antenna. If you set up this LNBF on the 84E, you are only going to find one satellite. But if you had separate DBS LNBFs for each satellite, and the proper switch, the 84-E could be used successfully for Bell...I have set similar equipment up here in Wisconsin (10 years ago), after building a custom multifeed bracket. Probably is a compatibility problem with whatever switch you could get on the open market now, and the requirements of whatever receiver you are using.

If you had not already installed this system, I would suggest Shaw Direct...but realize you have an investment already.

 

[murrays]

Uplinkguy, I live in Connecticut. I am having issuses with 82 also. I was going to buy the 84e from Impak. I had to have my rotator cuff operated so I had to wait. It was my understanding that LMB support arm was designed so the LNB'S would prealigned so if you aimed at 91 sat the 82 would be also align with zero a skew adjustment. Also were you using two separate LNB'S or a dual? I would think you would need to use the separate LNB'S as the distance of the focal of the two satellites would be farther apart than a dish 500. Also could you use two dishes? The 500 for 91 and the 84e for 91? I realize you are not to keen on trying the 84e again but thank you for your efforts. I will try to decide if I still want to try the 84e.

Murray

 

[uplinkguy69]

I bought the 84e with a bracket for a Dish 500 LNB. I trusted the customized bracket that would work for 9 degree DSS spacing because they marketed the dish as an upgrade for the Dish 500. But it was IMPOSSIBLE to get both 82 & 91 with the the Dish 500 LNB on the dish they sold me. Spacing must have been way off to because even with the dish that was twice the size of the regular 18" Dish 500 I got about about 10% less signal on whichever sat I peaked on. To add insult to injury the LNB they sold me had 5% drift. For the most part the 18 inch Dish 500 works good in Chicago even though I am on the edge of the 82 deg footprint. I get 50 - 70% signal depending on the transponder. Overall I feel the performance during heavy rain on Bell is no worse than the KA-Band HD feeds on DirecTV. But I'd really like to be able to have a larger dish (that works) which will give me more gain.

 

[ChrisB3127]

I've had similar problems. Back in the late winter, I tried setting up the 84E on 91 & 82, but could never see both at once. I spent hours outside playing with the adjustments, but still couldn't lock signal to 91 & 82 at the same time. Was anyone successful in using a 84E to lock both birds? On my Dish500 dish, I had low 50s on 82 and high 70s/80s on 91 (prior to N6 as the other thread is discussing) Right now I only have the 84E locked to 91. (Gets mostly 90s/100 plus several are now missing because of Nimiq 6) Maybe these dishes can't get both birds at once. I'll have to play around with it again soon to see if I can get it to work.

 

[Mr Tony]

Bell is for viewing in Canada only, so to fix your signal problems move to Canada.

hmmm...tell that to the snowbirds then

 

[kevin0821]

Isn't getting Canadian satellite cable illegal in the U.S.?

 

[Mr Tony]

NO!

It is not illegal to have a Canadian system in the US. You do need a Canadian address though.

Bell's satellites are more pointed towards Canada so unless you're near the Canadian border it wont work. Shaw Direct works fine all the way to the Canadian border

 

[cyberham]

Why do you think a Canadian address is needed? The intent, I believe, is to protect American sat companies from losing customers to Canadian sat companies. There is no other reason for the Canadian address policy otherwise. If it was a shipping cost issue, I'm sure the Canadian sat companies would be happy to charge the US end user the extra shipping to get a new customer. Since it IS illegal in Canada to subscribe to and receive US pay satellite TV, I thought I read somewhere that there was a reciprocal agreement for the same to be true in the US with respect to receiving Canadian pay satellite signals.

Added: FCC says a special licence is required to receive satellite broadcasts from foreign satellite providers outside the US.
Read here
It raises the question: "Is something illegal if nobody ever has or ever will prosecute the offense?"

 

[Mr Tony]

an 8 year old thread is proof?

Sorry but the FCC doesn't care about subscribing to Canadian or Mexican TV....But the providers do make you go through hoops to get it

Remember...Bell use to be called Dish Network Canada..

If it was illegal there is no way we would have had this forum area for the last 5-6 years

 

[cyberham]

Sorry but the FCC doesn't care about subscribing to Canadian or Mexican TV....But the providers do make you go through hoops to get it...

So you disagree with the FCC authority quoted in the LA Times article. Who should I believe? Has the law changed in the last 8 years? Provide one reference, preferably from an authority at FCC, indicating you can do this activity without a special licence. You need to read the article carefully. The article claims the FCC says the activity requires a special licence. They don't say the activity is illegal. If a special licence is not issued and held by the end user, then presumably a law is being broken. Strictly speaking, receiving the signals is not illegal, but doing an activity that requires a licence without holding that licence would not be legal.

If it was illegal there is no way we would have had this forum area for the last 5-6 years

Ah, right. There are no forums on the Internet discussing illegal activities.

 

[Mr Tony]

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about it. Its "grey area" for a US person to subscribe to Canadian TV. Its illegal the other way around.
Last I checked I can order a system from a dealer and have it shipped to my US address.

Ah, right. There are no forums on the Internet discussing illegal activities.

never said there wasn't....

 

[mikekohl]

It's hard to believe that it has been 8 years since the L.A. Times quoted me for this article.
They appeared to have an agenda that included skewing reality, in order to make it look like somebody in Los Angeles was breaking our laws to watch the Olympics on an ExpressVu system that he had ordered from Canada. The FCC quote was way over the top, and never truly explained accurately. License?? Little has changed other than that Bell/ExpressVu is no longer going to be physically available in places such as California. And the L.A.Times no longer commands the respect that it once did.

 

[uplinkguy69]

The 2-satellite LNBF provided with the DISH 500 is set up for the physical spacing only on the 20 inch DISH 500 antenna. If you set up this LNBF on the 84E, you are only going to find one satellite. But if you had separate DBS LNBFs for each satellite, and the proper switch, the 84-E could be used successfully for Bell...I have set similar equipment up here in Wisconsin (10 years ago), after building a custom multifeed bracket. Probably is a compatibility problem with whatever switch you could get on the open market now, and the requirements of whatever receiver you are using.

If you had not already installed this system, I would suggest Shaw Direct...but realize you have an investment already.

Wouldn't I have still the same alignment issues using two separate LNB's with the Dish 500 bracket? Wouldn't I need a bracket and arm with the the LNB's properly spaced and the arm the proper length to work on my 84E? Right now I'm back to using my Dish 500 but with the new footprint I'm only getting 40-50% signal on the new 91 deg bird & 50-70% on 82 degrees W and I really want to come up with a workable solution to increase my signal strength using a larger dish. My favorite channel: BPM TV is not on Star Choice so Bell is my only option. (I'm willing to pay whatever it takes within reason) to get more signal strength. Is my only option two larger dishes with a DP33 switch? Or is there a larger dish available with the properly aligned LNB's to get me the increased gain I want for 82/91? (Is there anyone out there that can make a customized arm & bracket with the proper spacing for the 84E?) Or is there a larger sized dish that is equivalent to the Dish 500 type used by Dish Network & Bell TV? I know in far Northern Canada they use larger sized dishes for Bell. Does anyone know a model number or source for the hardware? I'm sure a larger sized dish would give me the reliability I need but before I go back on the roof again I need want to know I have the right hardware. Also if there are any local installers who could help me please PM me I would really like to have a larger dish or dishes that work.