New Direct TV sub, and picture quality is less than expected

SteveT777 · Jul 14, 2012

TheTechGuru said:
Be sure your TV's are set to "Dot by Dot" or "Just Scan" or what ever your particular TV manufacture calls the mode.

Also disable 480i and 480p checkbox options on your receivers to prevent accidentally winding up on them.

Check out a 1080P PPV and see how that looks.

I really appreciate all the comments here to help figure this out. You and several others mentioned the resolution checkbox options; the installer ended up leaving it with only 1080i checked, but when I called D* tech support, they told me to check everything from 480i to 1080i, which I did. But I haven't seen any difference in picture quality between those two combinations of settings. (When I try to enable 1080p, the video won't pass through my Denon AVR-3808CI AVR; I always had the same problem with the Dish 722 as well, when trying their 1080p PPV channel. So for some reason, my Denon hasn't been able to pass 1080p on from either the Dish or D* receivers. Although I have no problem passing through 1080p from my OPPO blu-ray player... Figured the Denon probably needs a firmware update, which I've avoided so far, given their reputation for bricking up during the update...)

But with those settings checked on the HR34 (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i), I've tried using that "format" button on the remote, but each time I go through that, it'll scroll through the 480 settings OK, but then the screen goes black when it tries to go back to 1080i. When that happens, I've been turning the HR34 off and on, and the picture has come back. So I'm a bit unclear at the moment how that "format" button is supposed to work. It shouldn't be trying to output 1080p, when I don't have that setting enabled in the "settings" screen, correct?... I guess what I really need to try is just connecting directly to the TV and see if it's any better.

SteveT777 · Jul 14, 2012

RandallA said:
Do you have the HR34 going to the same HDMI input on the TV? Sometimes we adjust a particular input to our liking and in some TVs each input's setting is independent of the others.

Just FYI, by using this setting changing the channels is slower. I didn't like how slow the receiver was changing channels with this setting.

Yes, using the same HDMI input on the TV as before.

Since you mentioned the speed, there is a lag on just about everything with this HR34 unit. Scrolling through the guide, working through menu options, etc... I would've thought that might be another indication that somehow my HR34 was defective, but I'd read previously this was common with this unit. It's annoying, but I could live with it if I can fix this pic quality problem.

Tried more programming last night. The clincher for me was Leno. The sharpness was SO much worse than anything I'd ever seen on any Dish HD channel. I mean, to the point where facial features were just so soft, it had me reflexively squinting to try to see them better. There has just got to be something wrong with either this box or setup.

SteveT777 · Jul 14, 2012

royrdsjr said:
I use "Native On" & "original format" for screen format(plus having all resolutions checked).

Several posts also refer to these settings. "Native On" and "original format" are what both the installer and the D* CSR told me to use. But I'm going to try Native off this evening.

SteveT777 · Jul 14, 2012

bruin95 said:
I have the same exact TV and exhibit none of the issues you are having. This TV can make YouTube look good. I would check the settings on the receiver. I only select it to output 1080i, and unselect all other resolutions. I assume you are using HDMI and it's connected to the same input as was the Dish receiver?

Then there's got to be something wrong. I've only spent a few minutes with the SD channels, but they're pretty unwatchable. The pic quality reminded me of what it looked like in the old days, trying to pull of OTA with a pair of rabbit ears... But if SD over the satellite looks that bad, I can't imagine what YouTube would look like...

raoul5788 · Jul 14, 2012

I'm starting to think it's the box. If you try to get a replacement, you may have to tell them that it won't power up at all before they will send a tech out or send you a replacement.

Jimbo · Jul 14, 2012

SteveT777 said:
I really appreciate all the comments here to help figure this out. You and several others mentioned the resolution checkbox options; the installer ended up leaving it with only 1080i checked, but when I called D* tech support, they told me to check everything from 480i to 1080i, which I did. But I haven't seen any difference in picture quality between those two combinations of settings. (When I try to enable 1080p, the video won't pass through my Denon AVR-3808CI AVR; I always had the same problem with the Dish 722 as well, when trying their 1080p PPV channel. So for some reason, my Denon hasn't been able to pass 1080p on from either the Dish or D* receivers. Although I have no problem passing through 1080p from my OPPO blu-ray player... Figured the Denon probably needs a firmware update, which I've avoided so far, given their reputation for bricking up during the update...)

But with those settings checked on the HR34 (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i), I've tried using that "format" button on the remote, but each time I go through that, it'll scroll through the 480 settings OK, but then the screen goes black when it tries to go back to 1080i. When that happens, I've been turning the HR34 off and on, and the picture has come back. So I'm a bit unclear at the moment how that "format" button is supposed to work. It shouldn't be trying to output 1080p, when I don't have that setting enabled in the "settings" screen, correct?... I guess what I really need to try is just connecting directly to the TV and see if it's any better.

Thats where I would start ... maybe it's something your Denon is doing to it.

Your Kuro should look stunning right out of the box with very little adjustment to start.

Your TV does 1080p/24 as well as 1080p/60, so it will converting to 1080p if it's set up correctly thru the D* recvr.

Personally, I turn off all settings other than 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

TheTechGuru · Jul 14, 2012

Mine only has 720p, 1080i, and 1080p checked. Set to 1080i and Native OFF and Piller Box format.

My TV is set to "just scan" or some models call it "dot by dot".

SteveT777 · Jul 14, 2012

ZandarKoad said:
I believe nothing he has described is the result from some defect with, or compression decisions made by, DirecTV. Perhaps the OP would do well to do some research on "Display Calibration." No settings within the DirecTV receiver itself can account for the color and contrast changes reported. Those are issues with the settings on the TV itself. Even if he used the same HDMI input, he is now using a totally different display source with different output characteristics. Just different, not necessarily worse.

I'd highly suggest that you go back to the basics of display correction, which usually means a calibration disc with a good instruction manual and a blue filter (though your TV most likely has a blue mode you can use). There are several discs to choose from.

However, you can't insert the calibration disc into the HR34 to calibrate the source as well as the display. So you're left with the next best method, which is using your Blu Ray player to calibrate that input (the HDMI port your DirecTV will use). I'm assuming the OP does in fact have a Blu Ray player, as no cable or satellite companies can hold a candle to the picture quality offered by Blu Ray. Yet the Blu Ray player itself will have it's own inaccuracies, unless you have an OPPO Blu Ray Player ($500 to $2000 brand new) or a Panasonic BDT210 (highly recommended). The Panny 210 is very affordable and performs perfectly. No other Blu Ray comes close to the Panny 210 in the price vs display quality department.

Maybe that's more than you wanted to know, or raises more questions than it answers, but nevertheless, it is the only path which will lead to video fidelity. Unless you want to skip the cheap solutions and drop $1000 on a spectrophotometer, $3500 on a pattern generator, and $1500 on software.

My original home automation installer calibrated the TV after the initial install; used my Oppo BDP-83 blu-ray. To this day, I've never seen a TV with better picture quality anywhere than what I've been getting every day on that Kuro. I think that's why the difference now with this new HMC is so noticeable. The more I keep reading through through these replies (thanks again for all the inputs), the more I think something just HAS to be wrong. It keeps getting mentioned that if anything the D* picture should even be MORE crisp than the Dish picture, and the lack of crispness so far is definitely the biggest difference I'm seeing.

I wish I could switch image back and forth with Dish, but the D* guy took down the Dish (he'd said D* policy didn't allow him to do that, but offered to for a few bucks extra, which I paid him. Wish I hadn't done that now.)

raoul5788 · Jul 14, 2012

Have you tried bypassing your Denon?

TG2 · Jul 14, 2012

Jason Whiddon said:
Depends on the situation. I for one, ONLY watch HD, and use Native with Original Format. I then have my tv set up in 1:1 mode, so Im getting the best PQ the chain allows. There is no blanket answer.

I would beg to differ .. the blanket answer is that comparing the format functions from Dish to Directv .. Directv formatting sucks.

Picture quality when you monkey with the format, *I* think is better on Directv ... but I'm extremely displeased with Directv's answer to formats.

On my 722k's you set the output of the box to 1080i/p, your screen type to one of two 4:3's options or 16x9 and then can cycle through the stretch, gray, black, or zoom via remote (like with the hr34's format button <top left, compared to dish's use of the * key)

The very first issue I run into with the HR34 ... is the installer leaving all the lesser resolutions enabled.. I don't need the output to my tv to change with every channel ... I'm on a 720i/p .. that's the resolution I need, I'm on a 1080i/p tv .. then *that* is the resolution all content should be upsampled to .. which may be why Directv gets better marks ... Dish may have a more poor upsampling capability, where Directv appears not to upsample unless you tell it to.

The stretch mode, like pretty much *all* stretch modes is just horrid unless you like making Vince Vaugh look like an Ompa-Loompa. ... Crop mode on the Hr34, while it fills the screen, it cuts a tad more off the top and the bottom making you lose some of the information

In all, it would have been far better had both Dish & Directv made their respective pieces, able to have a user adjustment .. in my case, that would allow a few dots to be left around all sides .. prime example .. BBCA ... in SD ... on the HR34 the "America" is not visible under the stations' "BBC America" Logo.

TheTechGuru · Jul 14, 2012

What does your TV report the incoming signal as? and which blue light is on on the front of the DirecTV?

I would definantly bypass the Denon, DirecTV has no 7.1 audio so there is really no reason to need a HDMI connection to the audio receiver. Just hook the DirecTV directly to the TV and use a digital coaxal connection from the DirecTV to the audio receiver. That's what I have going to my Yamaha, it's pre-HDMI.

Also I don't know if your TV is 3D or not but if it is I don't believe the Denon will allow the DirecTV receiver to establish a 3D connection with the TV thus the 3D channels with be disabled.

Jimbo · Jul 15, 2012

TheTechGuru said:
What does your TV report the incoming signal as? and which blue light is on on the front of the DirecTV?

I would definantly bypass the Denon, DirecTV has no 7.1 audio so there is really no reason to need a HDMI connection to the audio receiver. Just hook the DirecTV directly to the TV and use a digital coaxal connection from the DirecTV to the audio receiver. That's what I have going to my Yamaha, it's pre-HDMI.

Also I don't know if your TV is 3D or not but if it is I don't believe the Denon will allow the DirecTV receiver to establish a 3D connection with the TV thus the 3D channels with be disabled.

I'm set up like you are with my Yamaha recvr as well, also Pre HDMI, using the HDMI from the HR24 to the TV and a digital connection back to the Yamaha.

ejb1980 · Jul 15, 2012

TheTechGuru said:
What does your TV report the incoming signal as? and which blue light is on on the front of the DirecTV?

I would definantly bypass the Denon, DirecTV has no 7.1 audio so there is really no reason to need a HDMI connection to the audio receiver. Just hook the DirecTV directly to the TV and use a digital coaxal connection from the DirecTV to the audio receiver. That's what I have going to my Yamaha, it's pre-HDMI.

Also I don't know if your TV is 3D or not but if it is I don't believe the Denon will allow the DirecTV receiver to establish a 3D connection with the TV thus the 3D channels with be disabled.

Some Denon receivers allow 3D. Mine has a big "3D" noted on the front. I do not have a 3D TV so I can't test it.

New Direct TV sub, and picture quality is less than expected

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