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cfkillers

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2004
169
13
pg county, maryland
with the new receivers coming out later this year will dish network ever improve picture quality to full resolution or should we accept 1440x1080. im coming from fios and there is a big difference in quality. but equipment is 10 times better with dish network.
also is dishonline hd content 1080p or 1080i. i notice the difference in picture quality with dishonline and regular dishnetwork hd signal. also will dishonline try to compete with comcast on demand by offering tv shows and hbo on demand.
 
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CowboyDren

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 18, 2005
990
1
64133
Satellite picture quality will not likely ever be as good as hardwire, especially FiOS (Verizon doesn't compress or downres much, if anything). The picture quality isn't in the hardware so much as it's in the bandwidth of the connection. While Verizon can dedicate a full 19 or even 30 megabits per second to a single channel, Dish has to cram five channels in that same space, sometimes more, meaning Dish's MPEG4 streams are running at around 3-8 Mb/s, which is similar to MPEG2 DVD bitrate.

Please don't ask about the lack of 1080P broadcasts, either; I just can't take one more of those.
 

cfkillers

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2004
169
13
pg county, maryland
well fios dosent have 1080p at all. i just saw dishonline said 1080p.
i cant find any info on dishonline on dish network website. i was hoping they make it like cable operators on demand with hbo and espn and what not.
 

CowboyDren

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 18, 2005
990
1
64133
1080P only applies to VOD content, and only some of that. Dish's best-quality VOD "works" by constantly downloading a few movies or concerts when your receiver isn't busy, and when you buy access to an event, it plays from your hard drive. There's also a component that works like Cable VOD via the ethernet port on your Dish receiver, but with a much smaller catalog, and at a much lower bitrate than the Satellite-acquired VOD content. Satellite service will likely never work like Cable or FiOS, because their technology requires two-way communication and the ability to allocate bandwidth on demand, and until Dish breaks a deal with your current broadband provider that prohibits your DSL connection from throttling, it's just not going to be as smooth.
 

ronfelder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 3, 2006
686
4
south jersey
with the new receivers coming out later this year will dish network ever improve picture quality to full resolution or should we accept 1440x1080. im coming from fios and there is a big difference in quality. but equipment is 10 times better with dish network.
also is dishonline hd content 1080p or 1080i. i notice the difference in picture quality with dishonline and regular dishnetwork hd signal. also will dishonline try to compete with comcast on demand by offering tv shows and hbo on demand.

If Dish is 1440x1080, what is considered full resolution? I know I i've never seens a full resolution picture on my hdtv according to these posts only get mine from E*. IMHO the pciture I get now looks exceptional from E*. I can't imagine how ota or fios hdtv is. How much better is it really? Can you truly see the difference? Again i'm blown away by E* hdtv.

Ron
 

mike123abc

Too many cables
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
23,708
2,414
Norman, OK
If Dish is 1440x1080, what is considered full resolution? I know I i've never seens a full resolution picture on my hdtv according to these posts only get mine from E*. IMHO the pciture I get now looks exceptional from E*. I can't imagine how ota or fios hdtv is. How much better is it really? Can you truly see the difference? Again i'm blown away by E* hdtv.

Ron

1920x1080i is the full spec for 1080i HD. Some channels are 720p.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_(standards)
 

CowboyDren

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 18, 2005
990
1
64133
"Full" HD frames are either 1280*720 or 1920*1080. Most TV shows are stored on D5 tapes, though, which means that even shows "mastered" in 1080P are transported in 1440*1080. OTA locals are significantly better than Dish locals, but you may have to see them side by side to notice the difference (mostly it shows up as artifacts like blocky edges around the channel bug, gradient colors aren't as smooth, and stuff like that). My $98 upconverting DVD player looks almost as good as Dish locals look, but not quite. Blu-ray looks better on my 37" 720P LCD than my DVD player does, but not enough better to justify the cost of replacing my gear and replacing my titles. Most people, because of their distance from the screen, can't tell the difference between DVD and OTA anyway, so Dish can get away with compressing quite a bit. For the true videophile, OTA+Blu+FiOS is the only way to go. For the other 98% of us, Dish is just fine.
 

cfkillers

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2004
169
13
pg county, maryland
yeah its a difference between fios and dish network. Maybe i need to recalibrate tv but i have a 1080p tv which always looked good with fios. dish online hd content looks better that the sat signal hd content. hopefully picture quality will get better. Blu ray and dvd cant be compared at all i dont allow dvds in the house anymore just blurays accept for the kids dvds (wiggles, Thomas, Dora).
 

Kb Cool

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 31, 2005
1,442
1
Mesa, AZ
yeah its a difference between fios and dish network. Maybe i need to recalibrate tv but i have a 1080p tv which always looked good with fios. dish online hd content looks better that the sat signal hd content. hopefully picture quality will get better. Blu ray and dvd cant be compared at all i dont allow dvds in the house anymore just blurays accept for the kids dvds (wiggles, Thomas, Dora).

Email E* and tell them the PQ sucks. It can't hurt and may benefit us all.;)
 

kstuart

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 5, 2006
5,206
0
Northern California
The picture quality is dependent on bitrate, not resolution.

Satellite has lower bitrate than FIOS, hence lower PQ.

The less resolution actually helps quality at low bitrate (that is why they do it).

A 1440x1080 frame requires less data per frame, which means more frames for that given bitrate.
 

ronfelder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 3, 2006
686
4
south jersey
The picture quality is dependent on bitrate, not resolution.

Satellite has lower bitrate than FIOS, hence lower PQ.

The less resolution actually helps quality at low bitrate (that is why they do it).

A 1440x1080 frame requires less data per frame, which means more frames for that given bitrate.

If fios or ota is that much better i casn't imagine what it looks like for i geel dish has an excelent pix. are those two services really better pciture wise? or are they just better number wise, theroetically better. I'm asking in the end can anyone actually see the improvement? just wodnering for i've never seen ota or fios hd

ron
 

tempVAdish

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 4, 2005
709
0
Temperanceville, VA
If they could ever get all the MPEG2 units replaced w/ MPEG4 units, they could drop the SD versions of channels they have HD of, thus prevent having to run duplicates of certain channels & free up bandwidth... that's the biggest thing that's going to help...

Of course, only the VIP equipment is MPEG4 & it's $$, that's why I still have 2 311's :) Now if they were to offer me 2 new VIPs to replace them, I'd gladly accept & do my part to help the MPEG4 transition :)
 

cfkillers

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 23, 2004
169
13
pg county, maryland
If fios or ota is that much better i casn't imagine what it looks like for i geel dish has an excelent pix. are those two services really better pciture wise? or are they just better number wise, theroetically better. I'm asking in the end can anyone actually see the improvement? just wodnering for i've never seen ota or fios hd

ron

Let me replace bulb for TV maybe when i moved the bulb went bad. But the blacks on fios are better. On a dark scnene it looks like someone is pressing play then pause play then pause. thats only in the dark areas though. im get a new bulb maybe that will improve some quality. i also might invest in a video processor in the future that might help.
 

Kb Cool

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 31, 2005
1,442
1
Mesa, AZ
Let me replace bulb for TV maybe when i moved the bulb went bad. But the blacks on fios are better. On a dark scnene it looks like someone is pressing play then pause play then pause. thats only in the dark areas though. im get a new bulb maybe that will improve some quality. i also might invest in a video processor in the future that might help.

Garbage in Garbage out. These guys who say E*HD looks great. Don't know any better. They are probally newbies or sit too far away from there TV. :D
 
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ronfelder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 3, 2006
686
4
south jersey
Garbage in Garbage out. These guys who say E*HD looks great. Don't know any better. They are probally newbies or sit too far away from there TV. :D

Hey Richard Cranium. If you read my post i said E* did look great but had nothing to compare it to such as FIOS or OTA. If someone can show me these sources and prove to me the improvement i'll agree with you. Until then it's just a subjective opinion. Just becvause numbers say it's not as good doesn 't mean to the naked eye it is. I've used dvd shrink to make copies of dvd's. Even after the shrinking process, to the naked eye one can't tell the difference between the compressed (shrunk) dvd video and the original with full bit rate. I'm not the only person who feels this way in regards to the copied and shrunk dvd's.

Can you tell the difference between 720p and 1080i? I think not.

Ron
 

JFaber99

SatelliteGuys Guru
Apr 9, 2009
129
13
Huntsville, AL
Hey Richard Cranium. If you read my post i said E* did look great but had nothing to compare it to such as FIOS or OTA. If someone can show me these sources and prove to me the improvement i'll agree with you. Until then it's just a subjective opinion. Just becvause numbers say it's not as good doesn 't mean to the naked eye it is. I've used dvd shrink to make copies of dvd's. Even after the shrinking process, to the naked eye one can't tell the difference between the compressed (shrunk) dvd video and the original with full bit rate. I'm not the only person who feels this way in regards to the copied and shrunk dvd's.

Can you tell the difference between 720p and 1080i? I think not.

Ron


It's not opinion! :confused:

You're at one of the best sources there are. People on this site don't hold back when it comes to setting the facts straight!

I had crappy Mediacom cable with its seven HD channels and it blew away Sat HD. I just got tired of only watching seven channels. I can only imagine how good FIOS looks and this fall I will get to see it.


:up
 

Kb Cool

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 31, 2005
1,442
1
Mesa, AZ
roflmao1.gif
If someone can show me these sources and prove to me the improvement i'll agree with you.

Ron

By your own admission. You wouldn't notice a difference anyways. So whats the point? Let me guess. E*SD looks just as good as DVD in your opinion? Right?
 

CowboyDren

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jul 18, 2005
990
1
64133
If fios or ota is that much better i casn't imagine what it looks like for i geel dish has an excelent pix. are those two services really better pciture wise? or are they just better number wise, theroetically better. I'm asking in the end can anyone actually see the improvement? just wodnering for i've never seen ota or fios hd

ron

Put up an antenna, and either plug it into your ViP receiver or your TV. Tune it to a local HD channel, either NBC (1080i) or FOX (720p) on the OTA tuner and on the Dish tuner, and do your own A-B comparison. The Dish transcode is clearly of less quality than the raw over the air feed, but most of the time Dish is good enough that it's not annoying. I always give the OTA tuner on my ViP 722 priority, even though it chews up a LOT more disk space on the DVR (up to 19Mbit/s MPEG2 on OTA vs. 8-13 Mbit/s MPEG4 via Dish). It's my understanding that Verizon never compresses locals at all, but just repackages the transport stream and sends it down to their receivers.
 

ronfelder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 3, 2006
686
4
south jersey
roflmao1.gif


By your own admission. You wouldn't notice a difference anyways. So whats the point? Let me guess. E*SD looks just as good as DVD in your opinion? Right?

No I didn't say i wouldn 't see the dfference. I said I had no source to these other sources so i don't have the oppurtunity to see this difference.

can anyone of you see the differnce between photos taken with your toy digita lcamers that cost $300 or are you astute enough to detect the difference between those cameras and a $900 digital slr?

As I also said copied compressed dvd's look as good as the original dvd. Not as as good as a blu ray, but I never mentioned blu rays. It all depend on how much compression my copying process gives it before it's ever noticeable.

Ron
 

Kb Cool

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 31, 2005
1,442
1
Mesa, AZ
No I didn't say i wouldn 't see the dfference. I said I had no source to these other sources so i don't have the oppurtunity to see this difference.

can anyone of you see the differnce between photos taken with your toy digita lcamers that cost $300 or are you astute enough to detect the difference between those cameras and a $900 digital slr?

As I also said copied compressed dvd's look as good as the original dvd. Not as as good as a blu ray, but I never mentioned blu rays. It all depend on how much compression my copying process gives it before it's ever noticeable.

Ron


Like i said, before you resorted to name calling. "People who think E*HD looks great don't know any better or sit to far away from there TV". Looks like you, "don't know any better".:D
 
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