Newbie pixelating only on local channels, only on one of the two TVs.

[gsl955]

Hello. I never thought I would need to subscribe to satellite users’s group, but its time to take control of this dish and understand what is going on here so i can troubleshoot my own problems.

The issue:
I am getting pixelating video on TV2 when viewing local programming (satellite 119 I think), whereas TV1 works fine for all channels (including local). I didn’t say ‘snow’, I said pixilated video as if something is not being decoded/decompressed properly. You can hardly watch any local programming on TV2. Since i have a 322, both my TVS are SD, not HD.

I have read some posts about heat issues on the LNBF. I can’t recall when this happens, only that is happens at the worst possible time. Yes, it failed on me during the World Cup finals! Its seems to work when there is absolutely nothing on TV (ok, i’m reaching a bit here on this one).

My configuration:
I have a dish is a Turbo HD with Dish DP Plus Digital LNBF. I think its a DispPro Plus 1000.2 Triple LNBF (the model number is A21201-WA1004KG1). The LNBF has two coax cables (plus the ground) that run from the LNBF to the grounding block. Since I only have one receiver, only one of the cables runs from the grounding block to near my receiver. I’m not sure if its port1 or port 2 of LNBF that its actually going to the the rear of my reciever via the grounding block. The rear of my receiver has a DP Plus Separator going into TV1 and TV2 of the back of my receiver (322).

The “System Info One” looks good for satellite 119 and 110, but 129 has a big-ol confederate red 'X' . The details say there had been signal losses. There is no obstruction of trees and so clear you can see stars during the day.

I have tried:

When I enter the “Point Dish” screen and toggle the “Tuner Input” then TV2 does fine with local channels, but now TV1 is pixilated on local channels. I am getting about a 71db on Echostart 119west regardless of how “Tuner Input” is configured.

I don’t understand what is going on. I do understand that the DP Plus Separator is more than a dumb splitter, it does separate the frequencies. But what does that have to do with local programming?

* Can anyone explain to me what toggling the “Tuner Input” from “02” to “01” (or visa versa) does? and Why would this affect local channels and not all channels?

* If I want to determine if it’s a LNBF problem, can I simply connect my receiver to a different LNBF Port (via the grounding block) or do I also need to make changes in the “Point Screen”?

* If i want to determine if its the DP Plus seperator, can i remove the seperator and plug it directly into the receiver (first trying 1 and then 2)

I’m trying to narrow down the problem from the LNBF, DP Plus Separator or the receiver itself. I think since I can toggle the the “Tuner Input’ from “02” to ‘01” causes the other TV to work with local programming leads me to believe its not the tuner – but not sure.

Any advice?

Sorry for the long post, i like to document.

 

[TheKrell]

Huh. One thing you could try is flipping the separator over and see if the problem stays with the tuner or moves with the separator. Why this should affect only your locals (TP15 on 119 if I read TheList! correctly), I have no idea.

Edited to add: No I'm wrong. It's TP 15 on 129. Probably a tree grew up into your LOS.

 

[gearheadchnc]

If the dish is the 1000.2 and the only receiver is a 322 that receiver is mpeg2 and the red x on the 129 sat is correct. If the tech installed the dish right with strong signal then check satellite 119 transponder 16 then you strength should be close to 90 mine is higher but also check 110 transponder 11 and that should be mid 80's. With this receiver to find the sat and transponders that the locals come off of then got to the channel for example ABC the go right to the point dish screen menu 6 1 1 More then likely its a spotbeam and signal wont be as high, Flipping the separator does nothing .

 

[farmsatguy]

If the dish is the 1000.2 and the only receiver is a 322 that receiver is mpeg2 and the red x on the 129 sat is correct. If the tech installed the dish right with strong signal then check satellite 119 transponder 16 then you strength should be close to 90 mine is higher but also check 110 transponder 11 and that should be mid 80's. With this receiver to find the sat and transponders that the locals come off of then got to the channel for example ABC the go right to the point dish screen menu 6 1 1 More then likely its a spotbeam and signal wont be as high, Flipping the separator does nothing .

Actually, thats incorrect. I've worked the Charlottesville area in the past and their locals are on 129. A red 129=problems with locals. Sounds like the either a bad LNB, or more likely, the dish is out of alignement. Assuming the poster is correct that LOS is clear, then having someone repeak the dish will almost certainly fix the problem. My money is on alignment issue. Working in the field for more than a dozen years, its rare that the 1000.2 LNB's are bad. Of course it happens, but I replace FAR fewer .2 LNB's than Twins & Duals - just built better I guess.

 

[gsl955]

<farmsatguy> i think you are correct...129 are local. Its definitely not LOS, as i did have the dish at one location and when summer rolled in, leafs started obstructing and started receiving bad reception for local channels (although i wish i would of checked both TVs back then when it happened). So, in the summer, i had the dish relocated, now with absolutely nothing in LOS (on a post), so perhaps some kids bumped it or something.

But why would this only impact one of the TVs (ie. one of the tuners), would this impact both tuners? I could see impact on local vs non-local channels but only one of the two tuners (and that i can toggle the problem) is puzzling me.

 

[whatchel1]

<farmsatguy> i think you are correct...129 are local. Its definitely not LOS, as i did have the dish at one location and when summer rolled in, leafs started obstructing and started receiving bad reception for local channels (although i wish i would of checked both TVs back then when it happened). So, in the summer, i had the dish relocated, now with absolutely nothing in LOS (on a post), so perhaps some kids bumped it or something.

But why would this only impact one of the TVs (ie. one of the tuners), would this impact both tuners? I could see impact on local vs non-local channels but only one of the two tuners (and that i can toggle the problem) is puzzling me.

Did you flip the separator to see if that moved it to TV 1 tuner?

 

[TheKrell]

...i had the dish relocated, now with absolutely nothing in LOS (on a post), so perhaps some kids bumped it or something.

Elevation to 129 from Charlottesville is only 22 deg. You sure about that?

I think it would still be valuable (and easy) to flip the separator over to see if the problem follows the separator output (no doubt the bandstacked band), or rather stays with the tuner. If it stays with the tuner, then I'd say that tuner has become somewhat feeble. If it stays with the cable, then my guess is that the switch inside your 1000.2 has gone bad.

Another potential problem is low DC voltage at the dish. How long is the cable to the post/dish?

 

[gsl955]

You sure about that?

Sorry, not sure i understand, sure about what?

I'm sure nothing is in its LOS. No trees, no roof tops, no bird crap. I am worried that since the dish is on a pole (cemented to the ground), it may of got bumped by neighbor kids. Not sure.

The distance from dish to grounding blocks is about 10-15ft. From grounding blocks to receiver, maybe 150ft. I was worried about this length, but i was getting good reception up until recently on both TVs.

I didn't think i could flip the seperator w/o any other changes. I will try this tonight and let you know later.

What i should of done, is taken note what the signal strength was when installed and wrote it down so i could see if the 71db that i am seeing now is less.

thanks again

 

[TheKrell]

Sorry, not sure i understand, sure about what? I'm sure nothing is in its LOS...

Sorry for the ambiguity, and I meant no disrespect. But 22 deg is really low and IMHO Charlottesville locals should be on Eastern Arc like the rest of us over here. Then you would be "looking at" about a 45 deg elevation angle which rules. At 22 degrees, you could be looking through a nearby bush!

The distance from dish to grounding blocks is about 10-15ft. From grounding blocks to receiver, maybe 150ft. I was worried about this length, but i was getting good reception up until recently on both TVs.

DishPro gear is spec'd to 200', and others have reported pushing this nearly to 300' with RG6. Nevertheless, every connector and barrel you go through provides an opportunity for a bad connection, or water infiltration, or something to go wrong. You mentioned also that you had TWO cables. Were both hooked up, e.g. to two receivers? If there were two receivers feeding DC to the 1000.2 before, and now there is only one, I am suspicious that my DC voltage idea is right.

I didn't think i could flip the seperator w/o any other changes.

I did this on a VIP612 to fix a corrupted firmware problem, and got the firmware downloaded without further fiddling. But as I recall, I did another Check Switch as soon as I got control of the receiver again. If you have to do anything after flipping the separator over, then that's all: Check Switch.

 

[gsl955]

If the dish is the 1000.2 and the only receiver is a 322 that receiver is mpeg2 and the red x on the 129 sat is correct. If the tech installed the dish right with strong signal then check satellite 119 transponder 16 then you strength should be close to 90 mine is higher but also check 110 transponder 11 and that should be mid 80's. With this receiver to find the sat and transponders that the locals come off of then got to the channel for example ABC the go right to the point dish screen menu 6 1 1 More then likely its a spotbeam and signal wont be as high, Flipping the separator does nothing .

Check this morning. Clear sky's, no wind, temp 57. Can't ask for better conditions.

119/transponder 16 = 76db
110/transponder 11 = 77db
129/transponder 15 = 37 !!!!!

Non-Local programming working.
Local Programming working on both TVs.

I put the tv on local programming and then entered Point dish, and 129/15 is definitely local programming. I'm not sure what is an 'acceptable' db for this area with this dish. Again, i wish i would of wrote it down during installation. We only loose non-local channels with a good size storms rolls through; We loose local programming when its thick overcast; We loose local programming on only one tv sporadicly.

Just so i understand, why would the low signal loss only affect one of the two tuners? Doesn't the signal come into the dish and then get split separated into two frequencies at the LNB?

Would 'Eastern Arc' give me a stronger signal to local channels? If so, i wonder why wasn't this installed in the first place for this area?

At the moment, both TVs are showing local programming. I haven't seen it fail on only one in a couple days - so i haven't flipped any connections until its repeatable.

 

[lineman20109]

Eastern arc doesn't have the C'ville locals. Are you north of C'ville?

 

[gsl955]

West of Charlottesville. Crozet - ~20 miles west of Charlottesville, but on the east side of the blue ridge mtns.

 

[TheKrell]

Just so i understand, why would the low signal loss only affect one of the two tuners? Doesn't the signal come into the dish and then get split separated into two frequencies at the LNB?

Would 'Eastern Arc' give me a stronger signal to local channels? If so, i wonder why wasn't this installed in the first place for this area?

I'll take a swing at those questions. As stated above, you didn't get Eastern Arc (1) because your locals are on the Western Arc, and (2) you have an mpeg-2 receiver. All receivers on Eastern Arc have to be capable of mpeg-4, even for SD channels.

Now on to the fun technology bits. DishPro technology is bandstacked. This means that the entire frequency band and both polarizations from a single satellite come down a single cable 100% of the time with no switching. (With legacy LNBs you had to tell the LNB to switch from even to odd transponders via a different DC voltage. How crude!) The odd transponder numbers (forget whether this is left hand or right hand polarization) come down the cable in the usual intermediate frequency: 950 to 1450MHz. The even transponders come down the cable at higher intermediate frequencies: 1650 to 2150MHz. The two bands are said to be "stacked" in frequency, with the even on top of the odd.

Now, with DishPro technology, the only switching you need is between satellites, such as that which a DP34 switch provides. But with a DishPro switch like a DP34, you would need to use one output and cable for each tuner you have. For a dual tuner receiver such as your 322, you would have to run 2 cables from the switch all the way to your tuner inputs.

Enter DishPro Plus technology. What's going on inside a DishPro Plus receiver, such as your 322, is DishPro with a wrinkle. Either tuner in your 322 can tell the DishPro Plus switch inside your 1000.2 to send either even or odd transponders from any of the 3 satellites down either (or both) bands to the receiver. The separator at the receiver is a frequency dependent splitter much like a diplexer, but with a crossover frequency between the two bands above, somewhere around 1500 MHz. In other words, one tuner on your receiver always gets the lower frequency band, while the other always gets the higher frequency band.

Are you seeing the problem now? Higher frequencies are attenuated worse than lower frequencies by just about anything, including long runs of cable, ground blocks, barrels, and anything that is out of spec, such as RG59 cable. So your "37" reading for 129, while low, is usable. Switch tuners and tell us what you see on the same 129 transponder on tuner 2. I'll bet it's lower still.

 

[gsl955]

TheKrell,

That is some useful information. Thanks. It does help me understand how to troubleshoot this and future issues. After your detail explanation, i now understand that the weak signal strenghts i am seeing on the "Point Dish" screen would not have an impact on only one of the two tvs. It would impact both since the same data is broadcasted to both a high and low frequency. The issue at fault is somewhere between the dish all the way through my receiver.

Currently i am no longer having a problem with one TV pixelating and not the other! It has been working flawlessly for the past few days. However, I did find last evening that i had the cable from LNB go through a surge protector before going to my receiver. A likely candidate, but again, its been working before - to reduce a variable i have bypassed the surge protector.

After posting my somewhat low signal strengths (especially on satellite 129 transponder 15 = 39db for local channels), i had a friend do a similar test. He lives only a few miles away from me. He is also getting signal strengths of about 45db for 129/15, so i guess that is what i get living in this area.

One final question... The "db" displayed in point screen is measured on the controller board received by the antenna correct? (ie. not the db measured at the receiver).

thanks in advance and i'll be waiting for the next summer/fall storm to roll through to see how it affects local programming, as that is always the first to lose its signal.

If/when it reoccurs my plan is to
1) Switch the cables on the seperator to see if it follows the tv.
2) Move the receiver outside next to the grounding block to reduce path of failure. (I hope it will not be winter when i need to do this).

 

[TheKrell]

You are welcome.

After your detail explanation, i now understand that the weak signal strenghts i am seeing on the "Point Dish" screen would not have an impact on only one of the two tvs. It would impact both since the same data is broadcasted to both a high and low frequency. The issue at fault is somewhere between the dish all the way through my receiver.

But it does not impact both tuners equally. The tuner using the higher frequency band will almost certainly show lower signal strength, because the higher frequencies are attenuated more than the lower frequencies if there are any problems at all.

I agree with your last statement; the pixelization on TV2 could be due to anything from the switch inside the 1000.2, through the long cable run, connectors, barrels, and diplexer, all the way inside your receiver if the TV2 tuner is weak. My guess is that it's just the cabling. When you are checking signal strength on 129/TP15, what does the 2nd tuner read? 39 is rather low, especially for a QPSK mpeg-2 transmission. I'll bet you see a lower reading still on the TV2 tuner.

Good move on removal of that surge protector. What was that doing there? A surge protector by design will attenuate higher frequencies, while passing lower frequencies. I'm surprised that any signal from the 1000.2 made it through!

 

[gsl955]

129/TP15 for tuner 1 reads about 36-37 which is the same reading when selecting tuner 2. Of course when i am at home both tuners work on local programming. My wife tells me that she has seen the piixelation on local channels recently. However, she's a little ticked off at dish at the moment so she is not willing to troubleshoot it for me. I need to wait until i can see the pixelation again and then re-read the 'db' for the two tuners.

 

[TheKrell]

Or put the surge protector back in the antenna lead. That ought to show you a big difference!

 

[goresnet]

I had a newbie pixelate on one of my tv's once... had to put him down!

Nothing constructive to say, but that popped into my head when I saw the thread title.