Newbie to HTS

[Tundracat]

I have recently bought a new flat screen 720p 32 inch Panasonic tv to watch standard definition programming on Dish Network using my Dish model 508 pvr. As I only can view the 119 satellite, I do not subscribe to HD programming.

My question is I am thinking about putting in some kind of speaker system to enhance my tv viewing experience. I have never looked into or have had anything other than the speakers that come with the tv. I am looking for something simple to install that has 5.1 sound. I came across this [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-AM1805-SurroundBar-Instant/dp/B001QCYHXC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top#moreAboutThisProduct"]Amazon.com: Polk Audio AM1805 SurroundBar SDA Instant Home Theater (Black): Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21b86wigPxL.@@AMEPARAM@@21b86wigPxL[/ame].

Has anyone ever heard how these sound? I live in Fairbanks and as far as I know no one up hears sells this. By the looks of this, I do not need a receiver to connect this to. Also I noticed for the first time that there is this dolby digital output on the back of my 508. What kind of cable do I need to buy to use this feature and what do I connect it to especially since this surround bar connects directly to the t.v. and not to an a/v receiver.

My tv has one component inputs and 2 video inputs and 3 hdmi inputs.

Does somebody have a better suggestion on what I should buy. I do not want to spend much more than $600.00. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[jvc]

I am looking for something simple to install that has 5.1 sound.

Not possible to get real 5.1 surround sound from a sound bar. You'll be much better off with this one:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S5200-7-1-Channel-Entertainment-Receiver/dp/B001VEI2OA/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=aht&qid=1250599545&sr=1-13"]Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-S5200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment?@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Wfl4QSHFL.@@AMEPARAM@@31Wfl4QSHFL[/ame]
It is actually a 7.1 system, but if you don't have room for the twoo surround back speakers, you can set it up as a 5.1 system, and it should still sound great.

Right now, it falls well under your $600 limit, at $494, with free shipping.
Good luck with whatever you get.

 

[jayn_j]

I have recently bought a new flat screen 720p 32 inch Panasonic tv to watch standard definition programming on Dish Network using my Dish model 508 pvr. As I only can view the 119 satellite, I do not subscribe to HD programming.

My question is I am thinking about putting in some kind of speaker system to enhance my tv viewing experience. I have never looked into or have had anything other than the speakers that come with the tv. I am looking for something simple to install that has 5.1 sound. I came across this Amazon.com: Polk Audio AM1805-A SurroundBar SDA Instant Home Theater (Black): Electronics.

Has anyone ever heard how these sound? I live in Fairbanks and as far as I know no one up hears sells this. By the looks of this, I do not need a receiver to connect this to. Also I noticed for the first time that there is this dolby digital output on the back of my 508. What kind of cable do I need to buy to use this feature and what do I connect it to especially since this surround bar connects directly to the t.v. and not to an a/v receiver.

My tv has one component inputs and 2 video inputs and 3 hdmi inputs.

Does somebody have a better suggestion on what I should buy. I do not want to spend much more than $600.00. Any help would be appreciated.

I've been meaning to write a soundbar tutorial for awhile now. There are several big advantages to a soundbar and one giant drawback. The advantages are that the switching and configuration are very straightforward. Easy to figure out. In addition, it provides a very clean profile on your wall under the set. If you choose carefully, it ends up looking like it was part of the TV.

The big disadvantages are that you don't get very good separation. The "5.1" they advertise relies on the surround signals being aimed at and bouncing off the side walls and then the rear wall. If everything is perfect, it can work --- kinda. If you are like most of us, little stuff like furniture, shelves, dead stuffed pets, etc will diffuse and block the surround signals.

Some soundbars are available with wireless surround speakers. This will provide a better solution, but a lot of folks have problems getting a reliable wireless connection with these things.

A soundbar is designed to fit under the TV. I always recommend that the main speakers be placed wider apart than that, generally about 1/2 a screen width away from the edge of the screen. The net effect is that you hear an ambience of stereo, but you won't get the true stereo effect at that distance.

Finally, a soundbar is designed to be small and unob trusive. This means small speakers, and that generally means tinny sound without a lot of lower frequency content. Those of us who have invested money in serious subwoofers will tell you that a lot of the HT experience is in the low bass.

I have seen some soundbars where the speaker quality is inferior to the built in speakers of some of the better sets. Again, shop carefully. I would suggest you find a somewhat taller unit, and one that has a subwoofer output.

Oh yeah, standard disclaimer from everyone here: stay away from Bose. They are way overpriced for what you get. You can generally equal the Bose sound for half the price.

You asked about the digital audio output on the 508. That is an optical audio cable often referred to as TOSLINK. You should have an optical audio input on anything you buy these days. Cable tends to run around $10 and is available everywhere (wal-mart, target, etc) I took a look at the unit you referenced and it doesn't seem to show a optical audio input. Only the red and white l/r analog. This will severly limit the audio quality you will see as you will only get dolby pro logic matrix sound. This is a technology that dates back to the '70s. It is bandwidth limited and only provides a small amount of surround info.

Bottom line: I would second JVCs suggestion and look for a decent HTIB solution for about the same price. I think you will be happier, especially when you decide to add a DVD or BluRay player.

 

[Tundracat]

Not possible to get real 5.1 surround sound from a sound bar. You'll be much better off with this one:
Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-S5200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package (with Dock for the iPod®) Black: Home Audio & Theater
It is actually a 7.1 system, but if you don't have room for the twoo surround back speakers, you can set it up as a 5.1 system, and it should still sound great.

Right now, it falls well under your $600 limit, at $494, with free shipping.
Good luck with whatever you get.

Thanks for the input. Is the center speaker attached to the receiver? Is there a manual somewhere that gives the dimensions of each component. I have limited space.

I've been meaning to write a soundbar tutorial for awhile now. There are several big advantages to a soundbar and one giant drawback. The advantages are that the switching and configuration are very straightforward. Easy to figure out. In addition, it provides a very clean profile on your wall under the set. If you choose carefully, it ends up looking like it was part of the TV.

The big disadvantages are that you don't get very good separation. The "5.1" they advertise relies on the surround signals being aimed at and bouncing off the side walls and then the rear wall. If everything is perfect, it can work --- kinda. If you are like most of us, little stuff like furniture, shelves, dead stuffed pets, etc will diffuse and block the surround signals.

Some soundbars are available with wireless surround speakers. This will provide a better solution, but a lot of folks have problems getting a reliable wireless connection with these things.

A soundbar is designed to fit under the TV. I always recommend that the main speakers be placed wider apart than that, generally about 1/2 a screen width away from the edge of the screen. The net effect is that you hear an ambience of stereo, but you won't get the true stereo effect at that distance.

Finally, a soundbar is designed to be small and unob trusive. This means small speakers, and that generally means tinny sound without a lot of lower frequency content. Those of us who have invested money in serious subwoofers will tell you that a lot of the HT experience is in the low bass.

I have seen some soundbars where the speaker quality is inferior to the built in speakers of some of the better sets. Again, shop carefully. I would suggest you find a somewhat taller unit, and one that has a subwoofer output.

Oh yeah, standard disclaimer from everyone here: stay away from Bose. They are way overpriced for what you get. You can generally equal the Bose sound for half the price.

You asked about the digital audio output on the 508. That is an optical audio cable often referred to as TOSLINK. You should have an optical audio input on anything you buy these days. Cable tends to run around $10 and is available everywhere (wal-mart, target, etc) I took a look at the unit you referenced and it doesn't seem to show a optical audio input. Only the red and white l/r analog. This will severly limit the audio quality you will see as you will only get dolby pro logic matrix sound. This is a technology that dates back to the '70s. It is bandwidth limited and only provides a small amount of surround info.

Bottom line: I would second JVCs suggestion and look for a decent HTIB solution for about the same price. I think you will be happier, especially when you decide to add a DVD or BluRay player.

Really great info here. Thanks so much. I was really hoping this would work as my space is limited. Not having an optical audio input will be a deal killer.

Don't worry about Bose. I found out with their noise cancelling headphones that they were overpriced. I guess it is back to the drawing board. I guess I will check out Sears here locally and see what they got or Radio Shack and then check those systems out on the internet and look at the reviews. If you have any more suggestions, I am all ears

 

[jvc]

Thanks for the input. Is the center speaker attached to the receiver? Is there a manual somewhere that gives the dimensions of each component. I have limited space.

Here, on Onkyo's site is the info you're looking, on the dimensions of the pieces.
Onkyo HT-S5200 - 7.1-Channel Home Theater Package with iPod® Dock | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products
If this page isn't going straight to it, click on the "Specifications" tab, and scroll down. It tells you everything. Also, don't forget, you can always use speaker stands, to get the speakers where you need them.
Good luck!

 

[jayn_j]

Really great info here. Thanks so much. I was really hoping this would work as my space is limited. Not having an optical audio input will be a deal killer.

Don't worry about Bose. I found out with their noise cancelling headphones that they were overpriced. I guess it is back to the drawing board. I guess I will check out Sears here locally and see what they got or Radio Shack and then check those systems out on the internet and look at the reviews. If you have any more suggestions, I am all ears

Yamaha was the inventer of the soundbar concept and is the market leader in that segment. This one is in your price range and has 2 TOSLINK inputs:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YSP-1100SL-Digital-Sound-Projector/dp/B000I6BZJQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1250685816&sr=1-4"]Amazon.com: Yamaha YSP-1100SL Digital Sound Projector: Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31UAyXEUVjL.@@AMEPARAM@@31UAyXEUVjL[/ame]

If you got this one, you would probably want to budget to add a subwoofer. However, you would get much better sound.

Check out Best Buy as well. They tend to have various soundbars set up for demo.

 

[Tundracat]

Thankyou so much for the info jayn_j and JVC. Right now my head is spinning but I am leaning away from the soundbar concept. The system that JVC showed looks very promising although the diagram does not show any optical audio inputs on the receiver. Does this mean I will not be able to get Dolby digital from my Dish Network receiver as per my current setup?

 

[jvc]

Under the "Features" tab, it says that it has two optical and two digital coax inputs. It also has four HDMI inputs. This is a good number of inputs, for a receiver that comes in a system like that. If you click on the "Photo Gallery" tab, then click on "See Rear View" in the window that opens, you'll see the two optical inputs on the far left side, above the two orange coax inputs.
You shouldn't have any problems getting digital sound from your Dish receiver.

BTW..........
The HDMI inputs are only v.1.3 pass through. Not sure if you could then send the signal out as PCM, or maybe LPCM, and still get the HD audio from the blu ray movies. There is no multi-channel analog inputs on this receiver. So, if getting the HD audio from blu ray movies is important to you, you may need to step up to the next higher model (HT-S6200). It decodes the HD audio.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S6200-7-1-Channel-Entertainment-Receiver/dp/B002C73WS6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1250770737&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-S6200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package with Dock?@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21LOQ4-FfoL.@@AMEPARAM@@21LOQ4-FfoL[/ame]
Right now it's at $588.17 with free shipping. If you can, I'd definitely go for the 6200. Same number of inputs.

These Onkyos also have onboard Audyssey, which is great. It will automatically calibrate your speakers, according to the layout, and acoustics of the room.

 

[jayn_j]

JVCs answer probably needs a bit more detail, although he is absolutely correct.

Lower cost receivers, including this one do not read the audio portion of the HDMI signal. You need to connect an optical cable as well as an HDMI one. The HDMI ports are only used for switching the video signal to the TV. This is still a good thing because the receiver will allow you to chose a source with a single button push. It will switch both the HDMI and the optical conection at the same time.

You do get somewhat better audio out of the HDMI connection, but the source needs to be sending the better format. Your 508 only has optical anyway. If you eventually upgrade to a Blu Ray or a DISH HD DVR, you would find that your audio was somewhat compromised and not the best possible. But it won't make a bit of difference with the system you have now.

Systems that do decode HDMI audio cost a couple hundred more. I find that extra cost worthwhile, but there is always a somewhat better system that costs just a bit more. The system JVC recommended fits your budget and is a good choice for where you are today.

 

[jayn_j]

One more to consider:

Woot has a Sony system on sale for a good price. It is aimed around the TV sound upgrade. It uses the tiny micro speakers. I have found that these are surprisingly good for their size. As a bonus, it includes a Blu Ray player. This might be the answer to address your space issues.

Woot is selling it today only for $500. (They will sell something else starting at midnight)

Woot : One Day, One Deal (SM)

 

[Tundracat]

Under the "Features" tab, it says that it has two optical and two digital coax inputs. It also has four HDMI inputs. This is a good number of inputs, for a receiver that comes in a system like that. If you click on the "Photo Gallery" tab, then click on "See Rear View" in the window that opens, you'll see the two optical inputs on the far left side, above the two orange coax inputs.
You shouldn't have any problems getting digital sound from your Dish receiver.

BTW..........
The HDMI inputs are only v.1.3 pass through. Not sure if you could then send the signal out as PCM, or maybe LPCM, and still get the HD audio from the blu ray movies. There is no multi-channel analog inputs on this receiver. So, if getting the HD audio from blu ray movies is important to you, you may need to step up to the next higher model (HT-S6200). It decodes the HD audio.
Amazon.com: Onkyo HT-S6200 HT-S6200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package with Dock for the iPod: Electronics
Right now it's at $588.17 with free shipping. If you can, I'd definitely go for the 6200. Same number of inputs.

You are absolutely right. I did not see this before. Thanks for the find!

Just looked and it is now $565 and some change. I will definitely go this way to save further heartache later if I choose this model.

One more to consider:

Woot has a Sony system on sale for a good price. It is aimed around the TV sound upgrade. It uses the tiny micro speakers. I have found that these are surprisingly good for their size. As a bonus, it includes a Blu Ray player. This might be the answer to address your space issues.

Woot is selling it today only for $500. (They will sell something else starting at midnight)

Woot : One Day, One Deal (SM)

Dam, I wish I had more time to research this. This looks perfect other than the fact that I do not want DVD/BD player. The wife would love the small speakers. I got on amazon.com and read the reviews and many had problems with the so called wireless rear speakers but there is an easy fix. Do you think they will offer this deal in the future?

 

[Tundracat]

By the way, If I go ahead and buy the 6200 system, do I need to purchase speaker wire?

 

[jvc]

By the way, If I go ahead and buy the 6200 system, do I need to purchase speaker wire?

I'm sure it comes with some. If it's enough, can't be known until you get it, and see if it reaches where you need the speakers to go. You can always pick some up at Lowe's or Home Depot, or even Wal Mart. I use 14 awg wire from Lowe's, and it works just fine.

 

[Tundracat]

JVCs answer probably needs a bit more detail, although he is absolutely correct.

Lower cost receivers, including this one do not read the audio portion of the HDMI signal. You need to connect an optical cable as well as an HDMI one. The HDMI ports are only used for switching the video signal to the TV. This is still a good thing because the receiver will allow you to chose a source with a single button push. It will switch both the HDMI and the optical conection at the same time.

You do get somewhat better audio out of the HDMI connection, but the source needs to be sending the better format. Your 508 only has optical anyway. If you eventually upgrade to a Blu Ray or a DISH HD DVR, you would find that your audio was somewhat compromised and not the best possible. But it won't make a bit of difference with the system you have now.

Systems that do decode HDMI audio cost a couple hundred more. I find that extra cost worthwhile, but there is always a somewhat better system that costs just a bit more. The system JVC recommended fits your budget and is a good choice for where you are today.

I do plan an upgrading to Dish HD as soon as Dish retires the 110 satellite and moves all the programing to the 129 satellite. (At least that is what I was told here in Fairbanks by a local dealer...who knows if that is accurate or not). Anyway, the system JVC recomended [ame]Onkyo HT-S6200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package with Dock for the iPod[/ame], does this decode HDMI audio? If not, I am all ears for suggestions.

What is the difference in audio quality in regards to speaker wire and its gages? I will have a 25-30 foot run to one of my surround sound speakers. Does it make any difference. Some of the reviews on the above mentioned system mentioned that the speaker wires were rather flimsy and not long enough for some.

By the way, have you ever listened to these? [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Classic-System-Black-Discontinued/dp/tech-data/B001202C44/ref=de_a_smtd"]Amazon.com: Energy 5.1 Take Classic System (Set of Six, Black): Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XvXkQp00L.@@AMEPARAM@@41XvXkQp00L[/ame]

Do they sound better than the above mentioned system? What receiver would you recommend to use with these babies? (Yeah, I know...it is going to cost me more money).

 

[jayn_j]

I do plan an upgrading to Dish HD as soon as Dish retires the 110 satellite and moves all the programing to the 129 satellite. (At least that is what I was told here in Fairbanks by a local dealer...who knows if that is accurate or not). Anyway, the system JVC recomended Onkyo HT-S6200 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Receiver/Speaker Package with Dock for the iPod, does this decode HDMI audio? If not, I am all ears for suggestions.

Yes, this will decode the high definition audio formats. The receiver in this package is the venerable Onkyo 607. It is well regarded around here as the best value in a low cost receiver. It has clean sound, a large number of HDMI ports, will decode the advanced audio codecs and has the Audessey calibration features. I have an earlier version of this receiver in my bedroom system and find it well suited to HT applications.

The speakers are "no name" but seem reasonable. Amazon is selling the receiver alone for around $500. That would allow you to get a different set of speakers. I have heard the set included in this bundle and they are a good bargain for the price. Basically $100 for a 5.1 speaker set. There is a newer model coming out, so you may be able to shop for bargains over the next month or so as well.

What is the difference in audio quality in regards to speaker wire and its gages? I will have a 25-30 foot run to one of my surround sound speakers. Does it make any difference. Some of the reviews on the above mentioned system mentioned that the speaker wires were rather flimsy and not long enough for some.

I would suggest throwing away the wires that come with it. Go to the local Ace Hardware and get 100 ft of 14 or 16 gauge lamp cord and use that. The wire that comes with te unit is 26 gauge and has too much resistance for any run over 6 feet.

By the way, have you ever listened to these? Amazon.com: Energy 5.1 Take Classic System (Set of Six, Black) (Discontinued): Electronics

Do they sound better than the above mentioned system? What receiver would you recommend to use with these babies? (Yeah, I know...it is going to cost me more money).

I have never heard the Energys. I'm a Klipsch fan myself. However, they are popular here, and there is a thread on this forum (used to be a sticky) dedicated to these speakers. Look there.)

Good luck with your search, and please report back.

 

[teachsac]

The Energys are a nice small compact speaker system. They produce pretty good sound for the size. I bought my daughter a set last year when she went off to college to use with a Denon receiver. She was the hit of her dorm.

S~

 

[Ilya]

By the way, have you ever listened to these? Amazon.com: Energy 5.1 Take Classic System (Set of Six, Black) (Discontinued): Electronics

A very good 5.1 speaker set for a small room. No satellites can compete with full-size speakers (especially in mid-range), but when the space and the budget are limitted, these Energy speakers make a great choice. Just don't drive them at full power, or you can burn them.

 

[Tundracat]

Yes, this will decode the high definition audio formats. The receiver in this package is the venerable Onkyo 607. It is well regarded around here as the best value in a low cost receiver. It has clean sound, a large number of HDMI ports, will decode the advanced audio codecs and has the Audessey calibration features. I have an earlier version of this receiver in my bedroom system and find it well suited to HT applications.

Is the receiver you are refering to the TX-SR607? How can you tell? The reason I ask is that the specifications of the physical size of the receiver on the HT-S6200 system is 17 1/8 x 5 15/16 x 12 15/16 (W xH x D). On the TX-SR607 receiver the specs are exactly the same with the exception of the height. TX-SR607 is exactly one inch taller. I can not find the exact match between HT-S6200 and its stand alone receiver. Why is the height thing critical? Because the shelf I plan on putting this thing on is only 7 inches high from top to bottom which gives the shorter receiver one inch to breathe. I literally have no other place to put it if I want to remain married. (By the way, the width of the cabinet that I plan to put the receiver in is only 18 inches wide.) Which brings up another question? Will the heat of the unit cause it to burn up eventually or worse start a house fire?

 

[jayn_j]

Is the receiver you are refering to the TX-SR607? How can you tell? The reason I ask is that the specifications of the physical size of the receiver on the HT-S6200 system is 17 1/8 x 5 15/16 x 12 15/16 (W xH x D). On the TX-SR607 receiver the specs are exactly the same with the exception of the height. TX-SR607 is exactly one inch taller. I can not find the exact match between HT-S6200 and its stand alone receiver. Why is the height thing critical? Because the shelf I plan on putting this thing on is only 7 inches high from top to bottom which gives the shorter receiver one inch to breathe. I literally have no other place to put it if I want to remain married. (By the way, the width of the cabinet that I plan to put the receiver in is only 18 inches wide.) Which brings up another question? Will the heat of the unit cause it to burn up eventually or worse start a house fire?

It won't start a fire, but it may shut down from the heat. It all depends on whether you like your music LOUD. Many complain that the 60X series runs hot. I haven't had that problem, but I try to keep my system open with a lot of airflow space and I also run at moderate volume levels.

the sides may not be as much of a problem. The 60X series does not have side ventilation holes, counting on vertical convection for cooling.

If you are running it in this tight spaces, you might want to consider mounting a small muffin fan at the rear to force air through the space.

 

[Tundracat]

Ilya and teachsac, thanks for the comments. I'm convinced. I am going to purchase the Take 5 system.

Jayn_j, thanks for the comments on the heat issue. By the way, I was able to increase my cabinet space height to 7 3/4 inches. So here are my questions,

1. Does anyone know the exact model of receiver in the 6200 HTIB package? I looked at the specs of this system and compared them with the TX-SR607 and they are not the same receiver.Onkyo HT-S6200 - 7.1-Channel Home Entertainment Package (with Dock for the iPod®) | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Productsvs Onkyo TX-SR607 - 7.2-Channel Home Theater Receiver | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products Among other things, the TX-SR607 is a taller and heavier receiver. I would prefer the shorter receiver for better ventilation.

2. Can someone confirm that the receiver in the 6200 HTIB receiver has no headphone inputs? Under the connectivity section there is no checkmark for the Front-Panel Portable input (stero mini jack). This is a very important consideration for me. I work late and my wife is a sleep when I get home. I do not want to disturb her.

3. What kind of cable(s) will I need to hook up my subwoofer to the receiver. Will the speaker package that I am about to purchase provide what I need or do I need to buy one.

I hate to give up the option of a 7.1 speaker option in the future, but it is looking like I will have to settle for the TX-SR507 due to space issues (less tall than the TX-SR607) and it is headphone capable. Ideas or comments would be greatly appreciated. What other receiver would you recommend that has similar capabilities, prices and quality of the onkyo brand that I want.