Newbie without much to show after 40 hours setup time.

[jerryrigger]

After about 40 man hours attempting to get my FTA system working I decided to post this in hopes someone can tell me what I am doing wrong or at least give me some tips.




Located near Flagstaff AZ


My goal is to get AMC 21 so I can watch PBS from my remote location. I have used numerous sites to help me find the correct azimith and
eleveation.
I normally install the hand held signal strength meter and point the antenna at the specificed azimith and eleveation. I fine tune the elevation


and azimith to get the strongest signal. Then I remove the signal meter and install satelite finder with built in TV screen then select a


transponder on screen that has a quality reading (10 to 20 % etc). I can seldom get the quality above 25%. I have switched the sat finder to
satelittes to the left and right of the one I am aiming and selected various transponders on those sats. Using this process I determine that I am
aimed at the sat that shows a quality signal (10 to 20% usually) Is that the correct method???


My problem is that I can not get the quality above 25 %. On 2 occassions I got 70% quality on Galaxy 19 and scanned 100+ channels that I could watch on the handheld sat finder and on my TV. Once I got SES 1 or 2 and could watch 4 channels only there.
I locate several sats using the little signal meter but can usually not get any quality reading or if I get a quality reading it is low. I tried to go back to Galaxy 19 but could never get a quality signal after I left it.


I do have a lot of trees in my area. But my antenna is set to 46 degrees elevation and my protractor/compass indicates that I would be over the trees by 10 feet. Is this enough???


I set my LNB setting on screen to Standard and 10750. The LNB box reads Standard and 10.75 ghz. Is this setting correct??? I bought a second lnb with the same readings and tried it also. No difference. What should be the settings for this lnb?


I have tried 3 sets of coax ables. No difference.
Dish does not appear warped. At least not to the eye. Is warpage super critical??


If anyone has an idea please let me know. I have exhaust all of my ideas.
Thanks,
Jerry Rigger


Pansat 9500 HDX
36 in. dish
plumb post, checked with multiple levels
LNB, standard, 10.75 ghz
signal strength meter that goes inline with the coax
satelite finder with built in TV screen(runs on batteries)

 

[osu1991]

Did you skew the lnb? Looks like 18 degrees clockwise when standing behind the dish, for your location according to Dishpointer for AMC21 @ 125W.

http://www.dishpointer.com/

 

[FaT Air]

to Satelliteguys!
Is 'warpage critical'? Yes. So is getting the LNBF's throat in the optimum position. Maybe the LNBF arm is bent?? What brand / model of dish. If your's passes a string test(warpage) some one here may have the same dish and be able to measure from the top and bottom lip of the dish to the center of the face of the LNBF to compare to yours.
Throw up some pictures of the dish, maybe someone will see something that's not 'kosher'.

 

[jerryrigger]

I think the antenna is a GeoSat Pro. I have measured it everywhich way and it is symetric. No indications of warpage. I have moved the LNB in and out with no change. Sorry but I cannot post any photos due situation beyond my control.
Are there any setting that could be the issue other than,
standard LNB, 10750, the lnb box reads 10.75 ghz...is that the same as the 10750 number that I enter into the reciever??

Thanks for taking the time.
Jerry Rigger

 

[osu1991]

I think the antenna is a GeoSat Pro. I have measured it everywhich way and it is symetric. No indications of warpage. I have moved the LNB in and out with no change. Sorry but I cannot post any photos due situation beyond my control.
Are there any setting that could be the issue other than,
standard LNB, 10750, the lnb box reads 10.75 ghz...is that the same as the 10750 number that I enter into the reciever??

Thanks for taking the time.
Jerry Rigger

Did you skew the LNB? (not push in or out) actually twist the lnb in the holder to the left if you're standing in front of the Dish

 

[lfp302]

I agree with OSU1991

 

[rv1pop]

OK. -- probably all the equipment is OK. Since you got 97W with 100 plus channels.
Now, unless you have been pulling on the arm or dish, rather than the mount you are likely no longer on the arc. If you pulled the dish with the arm or the edge of the dish, then the dish or arm may be bent. Slowly go back to 97W and find it, then VERY SLOWLY move West one bird at a time, peaking on each bird (elevation and skew) until you get to 125W. Remember that is only 18 degrees. That is only 3 1/2 minutes on a watch face --- you can go right by it in a hurry. I often have used a 36 in pipe wrench on the dish mount to turn it, not for POWER, but to slow down my jerky movements. If you have to pull hard on the pipe wrench, the mount is a little (or a lot) too tight.
Remember to adjust the skew at least ever 3 birds. The obvious - be sure you are reading H or V signals right on your meter. Otherwise --- well you know!

If you find and identify another bird, before you get back to 97W -- by all means start there. I just use 97W because I know what to expect, and can almost always find it in less that 5 minutes.

Corpus Christi TX and Santa Monica CA were not in the 5 minutes group!

 

[kodaz]

Step away from it a bit. Read some, any term that you dont understand look up for clarity, like Skew for example.
Almost always when i am arguing with my system, and it is winning.... it is because i have made some simple error.
good luck

 

[jerryrigger]

Thanks for the comments and advice.
1. I have been setting the skew according to the specs for each sat location. I did not mention it because it is a basic part of the process. But when I did get 97W it seemed to change the quality reading only 10-15 %. So I only thought of it as fine tuning.

2. I have been turning the dish by pulling on the edge of the dish. The mount is quite loose so it seems very almost impossible that I have deformed the dish. But I will turn it from the mount from now on to be sure.

3. What do you mean ," be sure that you are reading H or V signals right on your meter?" I know that that each transponder is sending signal in horizontal or vertical but that is preset in my receiver and I could change it but have no idea why I would need to. Sorry but I need a little clarification on that point.

4. Maybe someone with a GeoSat Pro 90cm dish could tell me the distance from the face of the lnb to the dish. Maybe I am grasping for straws...\

5. Alfter work today I will try again. I will not use that small handheld Satlink satellite meter (has the tv screen built in). I do not think it is doing a blind scan as it is pretty quick , 30 seconds or so. I think that I need to do a blind scan as I am uncertain which sats my signal is coming from.

6. My site is beside a lava flow from an extinct volcano north of Flagstaff, AZ. I am sitting on cinders and surrounded by pine trees. Probably lots of metal particles as part of it. Any chance this could be creating a problem. Other people use the big two commercial companies and have no prpblems.

Thanks for your time and I will post after I try again in about 1.5 hours.
?JerryRigger

 

[jerryrigger]

I need to correct something. My pine trees are not in my line of site with the sats. My elevation setting is 46 degrees. Using my Iphone sat program the sats are shown to be well above the trees. Also using a level (set to 45 degrees) and sighting along it I am aimed over the trees by 10 feet.

?jr

 

[rv1pop]

#3 = Most people understand skew and do it right. Some people I know, includung the person who drives the big motor home the most, needs to hear turn to the passenger side or turn to the drivers side when making turns --- left or right ??? OH the other right!
So he has turned the skew the wrong way and gets H channels on V!

#6 If you are not using a magnetic compass, you will not see any problem. My North needle is always almost WNW!!(that is afternoon sun direction!) But I get good sat. reception. GPS works very good.

#2. A string test - I use 3 strings - just touching will say the dish should still be good. Jerking the dish and especially the arm does the damage.

When I first began, Iceburg suggested I blind scan frequently. I took that to mean every time I touched the dish. Whether or not that was what he meant - it worked. AND it still cuts down my install time. Every time you get a response on Blind Scan -- find out where you are. It is easier to figure out how to get to Flagstaff if you find out you really are in Tucson, when you thought you were in Kingman! (A horrible, but accurate analogy.)

 

[FaT Air]

standard LNB, 10750, the lnb box reads 10.75 ghz...is that the same as the 10750 number that I enter into the reciever??

Yes.

After setting the receiver with the proper LNB settings
and an active transponder is programmed, and watched during 'tune up'.
Get a reference 'line' from www.dishpointer.com or your app.
Pan dish E - W of the 'line' in small, stepped, increments and wait** a while for the receiver to "lock on"(Quality) to the signal. ** 10 seconds is not unreasonable to lock on and display Quality..
If panning both sides of the dishpointer 'line' results in no Quality reading, adjust the dish up or down no more than 1° and repeat. Once you have 'lock' and a Quality reading. Fine tune the dish UP/DN, L/R for maximum Quality. Try improve signal with skew adjustment and LNBF fore/aft adjustment.
Blind scan in the rest of the transponders/channels.
Once you have a satellite 'pegged' and tuned up on, mark the pole/mount relationship, so to make it easy to return.
Label it with the satellite position, 103, 97, 30 etc.. May need more than one 'reference' mark as 2 degrees isn't much on a 2 inch pole.
"my Iphone" isn't here a satelliteguys app for it that can upload pictures?? I dunno, I don't have an Iphone.

 

[rv1pop]

As Fat Air said, wait before moving again, 10 seconds or more. I am impatient (Type A) so instead of waiting, I blind scanned.... My VERY FIRST blind scan, not seeing a wave even on the TV screen, I did a blind scan and BTV popped in. I had no idea what it was or where so I asked on this forum, and Iceburg came back with a yes, you are on satellite xxx. How much time did the wild blind scan save me? I do not know, BUT a huge thanks to Iceburg (aka Tony) for that advice. Yes, that was on or about Sept 15 2007. A blind scan will find this that waiting will not!

 

[ChrisW6ATV]

If I was doing this right now, switching between the satellite finder (TV-screen device) and your regular receiver would seem to just confuse me as I tried to remember what I had last tested.

After stepping away and returning as kodaz suggested, maybe try this: When you received 100+ channels on 97, did they get stored in your receiver? If so, you could always try tuning to one of those channels and then slowly moving your dish in the "right" range for that satellite. Or, pick one of the stored channels, then look at its settings to be sure it matches what Lyngsat or Sathint (or others) say are correct for that channel. (This is to be sure your polarity is not 90 degrees off.) Once you get anything from this point on, make some clear notes of all of your settings and mount/LNBF position details. Then, fine-tune everything for that one satellite and update your notes, again making sure that your polarity is not off by 90 degrees. Now, pick the next satellite in the arc, set up your receiver for one known-good transponder on it, and adjust the dish until you find it. Peak it, make notes for this satellite, and look for a pattern in your settings (do they roughly match what Web sites say are correct for azimuth/elevation, or are they consistently off by a certain amount, etc.?) The idea is to minimize changes and variables as you try to move from one found satellite to any other one.

 

[kodaz]

between lyngsat, dishpointer, sathint, my compass, a blindscan, and the numbers on the elevation/skew part of the dish, I can almost always get a lock on something within 10 to 30 minutes of setup time. C or KU. From there i can then get the bird i want easy. that random blindscan suggested by the forum is a good idea.

One thing i didnt see in the thread was the transponder on amc 21 that you were actually trying to lock? Reason i ask is that 12180 v 30000 comes in very strong for me in northeast pa.
I dont use a Sat Meter so i have no idea what it tells you to do with the transponders. I DO know that a dead transponder will give u an all night headache.

 

[madmadworld]

you need very little skew square it up and from the front rotate to about 5:30 using the cable connector as the small hand of a clock. and try to get Galaxy 18 at 123.0°W first it's easier. i know nothing about your sat meter but if it has this sat in it and programed right 11732 H 13240 should be the first one to come up. and it is a strong tp out here in the west. if you use the pansat 9500 it will be the first tp to come up. menu --install--antenna setup--- Galaxy 18 is the #3 sat.

to get 125° from behind the dish move it to the right just a little bit and the dish has to be just a bit lower.
good luck

 

[jerryrigger]

I am grateful for all the hints, tips, and advice. You have taken the time to help someone you do not know and will likely never know. I have printed every response and put it with my manuals so I can go to them for inspiration and guidance.

I was successful yesterday to locate SES 1 and then Galaxy 16 next to it.

My equipment is all OK. My main problem was that I thought I was aiming at a pie plate at 50 yards. But now I think it is more like a quarter at 100 yards. To continue the analogy I would say that " I am unsure if my sights are set correctly and the correct target is not certain." It seems like it is more like an art than a science at the moment. Anyway I used the info you all gave me and I think that I am getting a feel for it.

One major question remains: Why do the low frequency (3000-4000) frequency transponders NEVER show up on a blind scan and never work when I enter them manually and then do a scan. In fact when doing a blind scan with my Pansat 9500 hdx it never even scans in those frequencies. Lyngsat lists dozens of many transponders in this range with channels that are clear??? Does my lnb not read these because it is a 10750 setting?????

 

[phlatwound]

...One major question remains: Why do the low frequency (3000-4000) frequency transponders NEVER show up on a blind scan and never work when I enter them manually and then do a scan. In fact when doing a blind scan with my Pansat 9500 hdx it never even scans in those frequencies. Lyngsat lists dozens of many transponders in this range with channels that are clear??? Does my lnb not read these because it is a 10750 setting?????

JR. congrats on your success so far, sometimes it seems that this hobby IS more art than science, or as my grandpappy used to tell me.."sometimes it's better to be lucky than good".

Your setup (and the 10750 LNBF) is for receiving Ku-band signals. To receive the lower frequency stuff (C-band) would require a different frequency LNBF, and a much larger dish to get them reliably. That is my Readers Digest answer, there are many here that could explain it much better, but that's the gist of it.

 

[matthewy8]

One major question remains: Why do the low frequency (3000-4000) frequency transponders NEVER show up on a blind scan and never work when I enter them manually and then do a scan. In fact when doing a blind scan with my Pansat 9500 hdx it never even scans in those frequencies. Lyngsat lists dozens of many transponders in this range with channels that are clear??? Does my lnb not read these because it is a 10750 setting?????

Those frequencies are for c band satellites. You are using ku satellites. It takes different equipment for the c band.

Posted Using The New SatelliteGuys Reader App!

 

[KE4EST]

Yep those are C-Band only, not going to get that with Ku...