Newer discs may not work in older BD players!! - DENON

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Apr 1, 2004
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<Talmadge.Aug.07>

Jeff Talmadge: Well, we actually have two units — the DVD-3800BDCI player and the DVD-2500BTCI, which is a Blu-ray/DVD/CD transport. The transport only has HDMI output; there is no other jack on the back at all. It will come out at $1,199 SRP. It was really designed as a simple hi-def solution for customers to add to their A/V receivers, like an AVR-2808CI, for example. Connect the 2500BTCI, and now you’ve got hi-def audio and hi-def video. Of course, the DVD-3800BDCI player is the one most are focusing on. That's really more of our normal style, and I'm excited about it. The biggest news about it is that it's the world's first with Profile 1.1, the BD-ROM version, which goes into effect in October for all manufacturers. So any new DVD player introduced after October of this year must fit that profile.

LU: What exactly does that mean?

JT: The profile itself is the next step in the Blu-ray evolution. HD DVD is what I call a "baked format", meaning it's basically done. There are some copy protection things, but that's later, and they’re not going to affect performance and playback of material. For Blu-ray, on the other hand, Profile 1.1 is just the next step — there's actually a Version 2 some time next year. That's going to deal with players and the software, so it's two-sided. But back to Profile 1.1. It mandates that players must have secondary audio and video processing for picture-in-picture capabilities, be able to support external storage of some type — or internal storage, it's really an option, I believe — for downloaded Web material. Current Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players do not have to have any “connect” port. Those that do, it's really for firmware update, but that’s the only thing it's really good for. Where HD DVD, has HDI, it's an interactive version. And even that port is required to go to a movie’s web site or a dedicated space to download extra material. When our player comes out, the first thing people will notice on the front panel is that is has an SD card slot. We give you an SD card, and obviously, you can buy others. You would take that to your computer, go to the movie website on the card and download this material, toss it into the player, and then be able to access that simultaneously with the movie playback.

LU: Will that load the information to the disc's menu system?

JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you to make it a truly interactive experience. After that, it's standard Blu-ray. But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.

LU: Really?

JT: It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs. The BD portion [of the DVD-3800BDCI] is going to be the newest and latest and greatest available, but the biggest concern for us was not to forget about SD, standard definition. So in reality, for a lot of your readers and your customers and a lot of the people out there that check the site, this is like a DVD-3930CI with Blu-ray added. [But without DVD-Audio or SACD – Ed.]
 
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Actually, it sounds like Denon is going to be ok since he says "we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs".
Thats correct, but its Denon saying that there is potentially a problem. If people can't deal with reality they should stay in bed.
 
There is not going to be any problem playing future BD movies on current BD players. Gee, how many times do I have to read this crapola! Profile 1.1 has nothing to do with the movie - - it has everything to do with extra features. Right now there are animated menus that play over some BD titles -- especially from Sony . These menus are Java and can be brought up during the movie -- are animated and have their own sounds that play while the movie continues in the background. You can select a feature and go to that automatically pausing the movie or you can exit and continue to watch the movie. Interesting is that if you chose to leave the movie when you re-enter you are right where you left off. Java 1.1 will allow another screen to play alongside the movie at the same time with its own sound and video (just like PIP and HDi on HD-DVD).

Now some players have not played those animated menus and cannot bring a menu up without pausing the movie. If those players cannot be upgraded to Java1.1 then they will continue to play movies the same way the do now by pausing the movie when you chose a menu option and then playing that option without playing the movie at the same time. For those of us whose players can play those animated menus (PS3 is one) your player will more then likely be able to be upgraded to 1.1 with no problem at all. Oh, and btw, I am able to change audio choices on the fly without leaving some movies.

After saying all that, I have wished many times that the BD format was more mature before they released it. And I have given plenty kudos to Toshiba for fleshing out their format. But I see a differant lining here. I see that with BD there are newer features to be offered down the road. And at some point I will buy a dedicated BD player that offers all these features and runs considerably quiter than my PS3. I don't see that happening for another 2 years.

This is no differant then what happened with DVD. There were improvements to sound, video quality, outputs, upconverting, quiter drives, better video and audio processors, heck DVD continues to improve. And I believe that I purchased about 5 DVD players over the last 10 years -- each one with more features then the last. So I really do not care if BD has a way to go to fully mature. It did not stop me from purchasing DVDs and it does not prevent me from buying BD movies. I look forward to the newer features of Java 1.1 and BDLive as I am sure HD-DVD crowd looks forward to more use of HDi on their discs. To those of us supporting BD this is a good thing.
 
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"These menus .... can be brought up during the movie -- are animated and have their own sounds that play while the movie continues in the background."

Why does this sound like both formats will imbed commercials in their movies in the future? :eek::(
 
"These menus .... can be brought up during the movie -- are animated and have their own sounds that play while the movie continues in the background."

Why does this sound like both formats will imbed commercials in their movies in the future? :eek::(

The good news is that to do this the player has to do the decoding (or they have to imbed the menu sounds in the primary soundtrack).

With the "new" models supporting HDMI 1.3 it is likely you won't get any menu sounds without internal decoding.

Cheers,
 
And yet you will still be able to play the BD on your 'old' BD player! Will wonders never cease?
 
Same FUD from the Same FUDSTER(s)

Some people just have to start BS :confused:

As long as I can watch THE MOVIE I am happy. And guess what ?
I will be able to !
 
Not if you have the Samsung 1200 or LG's LH100, and try to play Fantastic Four 2.

Sounds like those people at Denon knew what they were talking about. So, will we need a new firmware release on all of the older players for each new Fox BD+ movie that comes out? I doubt it, but a scary thought! Yikes!
 

Question for Gen 3 HD DVD players

Star Trek TOS on the Big Screen Sneak HD DVD Preview!

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