No It Is Not Illegal (1 Viewer)

daves1

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 6, 2006
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The thread on this subject was closed before I could tell you what the FCC in Washington DC told me. There is NO FEDERAL LAW prohibiting
a us citizen from subbing to/using a foreign satellite, however one is suppose to obtain a license to do so from the FCC. However again, (this is where it gets interesting), the FCC has NO ENFORCEMENT mechanism, i'e Congress gave them NO enforcement power!!! ie no money for enforcement.
In other words, if you do NOT apply for the license, there
is nothing they can do to you. They have no way of knowing and no way of checking, so us subs to Canadian Satellite need not worry.
Besides, there are other foreign satellites you can access.

2nd-- There is no CRTC reg against using Canadian satellite in usa either. This issue came up before the CRTC because Starchoice knowingly lets
snowbirds, rv's, and persons with second homes use their services in the usa, provided they are residents of Canada for six months or more. In reality, *C has no way of knowing if you meet the resident
requirements and assumes you do. as long as you have a Canadian address and phone no. That is why *c 800 no's work in usa.
*C actually has a program for these people and will send out a second dish for your cottage or rv.
BEV, on the other hand does not let you knowingly use its services in the usa, citing purchase rights issue in usa. CRTC said it was a business decision of both companies, and both companies were free to have those decisions and neither is breaking any regs.
 
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riffjim4069

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Apr 7, 2004
35,131
217
SatelliteGuystonfieldville, U.S.A.
I know it has probably been asked and answered a million times before...but why can't I get CBC through Dish Network? I grew up in the Detroit area and my grandfather and I would always watch Hockey Night in Canada (Windsor KCLW), Curling and a few other shows.

Is it available FTA?
 

nrholland

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 13, 2003
414
0
Tampa Bay Area
daves1 said:
The thread on this subject was closed before I could tell you what the FCC in Washington DC told me. There is NO FEDERAL LAW prohibiting
a us citizen from subbing to/using a foreign satellite, however one is suppose to obtain a license to do so from the FCC. However again, (this is where it gets interesting), the FCC has NO ENFORCEMENT mechanism, i'e Congress gave them NO enforcement power!!! ie no money for enforcement.
In other words, if you do NOT apply for the license, there
is nothing they can do to you. They have no way of knowing and no way of checking, so us subs to Canadian Satellite need not worry.
Besides, there are other foreign satellites you can access.

2nd-- There is no CRTC reg against using Canadian satellite in usa either. This issue came up before the CRTC because Starchoice knowingly lets
snowbirds, rv's, and persons with second homes use their services in the usa, provided they are residents of Canada for six months or more. In reality, *C has no way of knowing if you meet the resident
requirements and assumes you do. as long as you have a Canadian address and phone no. That is why *c 800 no's work in usa.
*C actually has a program for these people and will send out a second dish for your cottage or rv.
BEV, on the other hand does not let you knowingly use its services in the usa, citing purchase rights issue in usa. CRTC said it was a business decision of both companies, and both companies were free to have those decisions and neither is breaking any regs.

What if I'm a Canadian citizen that has a social insurance number but lives in the U.S. full-time? Do you think they'd give me any hassle despite their knowing that? Of course, I'd use a relatives Canadian address for their system. I know a U.S. address won't fly on their system.
 

sampatterson

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
804
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Marietta, GA
It may not be against FCC rules, but it is breaking the license agreement you have with Dish or BEV. So in theory, you can't be put in jail, but you can be sued by either Dish or BEV for breaking the contract you have with them for service, and any content copyright holder for copyright infringement.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
802
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I will state in this thread again that Dish cannot carry the CBC in the US and the CBC cannot sell their signal in the US as it appears in Canada without one the following things happening first:

The CBC has to either create a US channel where all the programming has copyright clerance.

Or

the CBC has to stop carrying programming that is owned by other networks nationally distributed in the US that own the rights to these programs.

I know there are those here that for some reason do not want to understand this, but there you have it. The problem is not with direct statute that says you cannot carry a Canadian channel in the US. The problem is with copyright laws. If Discovery Networks or PBS or CBS whatever owns the US copyrights to a certain program in the US, a foreign channel cannot be sold nationally with that programming on it in the US. PERIOD.

See ya
Tony
 

nrholland

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 13, 2003
414
0
Tampa Bay Area
TNGTony said:
I will state in this thread again that Dish cannot carry the CBC in the US and the CBC cannot sell their signal in the US as it appears in Canada without one the following things happening first:

The CBC has to either create a US channel where all the programming has copyright clerance.

Or

the CBC has to stop carrying programming that is owned by other networks nationally distributed in the US that own the rights to these programs.

I know there are those here that for some reason do not want to understand this, but there you have it. The problem is not with direct statute that says you cannot carry a Canadian channel in the US. The problem is with copyright laws. If Discovery Networks or PBS or CBS whatever owns the US copyrights to a certain program in the US, a foreign channel cannot be sold nationally with that programming on it in the US. PERIOD.

See ya
Tony

Okay. Let's forget about the CBC. But what prevents CBC NEWSWORLD and CTV NEWSNET from being available on DBS here in the U.S.?, especially on the International dishes? I can't see anything, other than that Dish & Directv don't want to carry them. :mad:
 
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TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
802
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
If these are indeed 24 hour channels, the only thing stopping that is the CBC's or CTV's willingness to sell that channel to Dish at a price that Dish is willing to pay among other business and marketing decisions.

And before some one states "it's an FTA channel", that could be part of the problem. FTA does not mean it is free to Dish or DirecTV. Resellers cannot just pluck the signal off the air and use it. Second, Dish, at least, does not like the idea of selling international channels when it is also available for FTA on other satellites.

See ya
Tony
 

cablewithaview

Stand against retrans!!!
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Apr 18, 2005
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DeKalb County, AL
TNGTony said:
If these are indeed 24 hour channels, the only thing stopping that is the CBC's or CTV's willingness to sell that channel to Dish at a price that Dish is willing to pay among other business and marketing decisions.

And before some one states "it's an FTA channel", that could be part of the problem. FTA does not mean it is free to Dish or DirecTV. Resellers cannot just pluck the signal off the air and use it. Second, Dish, at least, does not like the idea of selling international channels when it is also available for FTA on other satellites.

See ya
Tony

When you put it like that, that would make Sky Angel not needed unless you want Fox, HGTV, and Hallmark to go along with it.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
802
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Huh? What does Sky Angel have to do with Dish and their international channels?

Just a reminder that Sky Angel and Dish have NOTHING in common except the receivers needed to pick up their channels. Two different companies.

Tony
 

cablewithaview

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Apr 18, 2005
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TNGTony said:
And before some one states "it's an FTA channel", that could be part of the problem. FTA does not mean it is free to Dish or DirecTV. Resellers cannot just pluck the signal off the air and use it. Second, Dish, at least, does not like the idea of selling international channels when it is also available for FTA on other satellites.

CBC is not FTA, so what did you mean by this ???? And no one said Dish or DirecTV would just pluck it out of the sky. They have to get contracts in place. There is nothing in Canada FTA except Knowledge Network, some StarChoice promo's, The Shopping Channel, Government channels, CKUA, Access, and Voice Print on the Anik ku birds in DCII format. The Weather Network, ASN, Radio Canada Montréal and Télé-Québec on the Anik C Band side in DVB format. That's not really much to speak of, ASN would be of interest.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
802
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I am done responding to your posts with the exception that whenever you post misinformation about this subject I will corect it. I'm not sure where the communitcations break-down took place, but it just seems that there is no understanding of my meaning and rational explanations are misunderstood.

I don't know if it's the limited understanding of international law, domestic law, contractual law and obligations. Or it could be the misunderstanding of the basic circumstancial differences between border cable systems, limited distribution of a part time channel on non-border cable systems, regulations. It seems to go as deep as a basic misunderstanding of the laws and regulations that govern superstations versus the laws, regulations and copyright obligations that govern national distribution of channels with programming that does NOT have copyright clearance in the US.

So, since it seems that everything I typed above and before seems to be lost, I will no longer address this except to tell anyone informed differently what the real situation is.

Can Dish get the CBC or CTV? Yes. But not as they appear in Canada. First, the CBC has to either make a version of their channel with the copyright clearances for the US. Since the CBC sold off the channel that did that a while back, it looks like they do not have the will to do this.

Or Dish has to block any programming that does not have US copyright clearance. And, since this is something that EVERYONE can't stand, it won't happen.

See ya
Tony
 

cablewithaview

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Apr 18, 2005
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DeKalb County, AL
TNGTony said:
Can Dish get the CBC or CTV? Yes. But not as they appear in Canada. First, the CBC has to either make a version of their channel with the copyright clearances for the US. Since the CBC sold off the channel that did that a while back, it looks like they do not have the will to do this.

If your talking about NWI, CBC had no control of NWI for 4 or 5 years when it was sold to Al Gore and company to be rebranded as Current. USA bought it from CBC for $155 million later to Vivendi Universal and then to it's current form.
 

TNGTony

Unashamed Bengal Fan
Sep 7, 2003
10,019
802
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Just so other readers are not under the impression that the above poster knows what he is talking about, here is a piece of the CANADIAN page linked.

For inquiries regarding the reuse of any web content appearing on the CBC.ca web pages only, please visit our Permissions FAQ. Please note that this form is intended for web related content only, not for Radio and TV programming content.

Secondly, the CBC had control of NWI in the US until they sold their interest in the channel in 2000. The CBC also had a large interest in Trio and they sold that as well.

The CBC as it appears in Canada is cannot be sold nationally in the US due to copyright obligations.

See ya
Tony
 

cablewithaview

Stand against retrans!!!
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Apr 18, 2005
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a difference between link to the web site and using the actual web content. :rolleyes:
also for someone that is done responding, your still here. I guess I should keep pushing the issue. :D
 

chaddux

Insert Clever Phrase Here
Supporting Founder
Sep 19, 2004
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DMA 114
Tony, your information and explanations throughout the thread have been perfectly clear. I don't know why some of the others are having so much trouble understanding.

cablewithaview said:
a difference between link to the web site and using the actual web content. :rolleyes:

Huh?

cablewithaview said:
also for someone that is done responding, your still here. I guess I should keep pushing the issue. :D

I wouldn't keep pushing anything. Whatever you were pushing died a few miles back. It's starting to smell now.
 

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